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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: MC and refusal to let me ask the questions
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have shared some of my frustrations regarding my well meaning counselor's desire to sop me from asking affair questions because it is like traumatizing me all over again, and asking my husband who has already hurt me more than he'll ever know to inflict pain on me once again. She thinks I am re-victimizing myself and wants me to take her out of the room so that we can focus on us. I continue to explain that the more I push my reluctant husband to give the answers, the more of a completed puzzle I am getting and the sooner I will be able to move past the affair. we are only 5 months out from admitting the first affair, and 3 1/2 months out from finding out that he had an affair with the same AP 12 years ago. So……. anyone have any good ideas about how I can find a counselor who actually specializes in INFIDELITY in the new york area?


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 572 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you used the "Find a Local Counselor" tool, in the yellow box to the left?

I agree that you need to find a new MC... she is encouraging your husband to rugsweep. maybe she needs to read "How to help your spouse heal from your affair"...


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, there is only one choice and it is an 1 1/2 hours away.


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 572 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
sudra
♀ Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I keep seeing posts like yours. Perhaps it's time (even if we switch counselors) to bring these out-of-date counselors some reading material on the PROPER way to deal with infidelity. Seriously. This is nuts. Don't they have continuing education requirements??


Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Nov 2010
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree sudra. It's almost like they wish they could put us on the highest dose of prozac possible so that we just ride the wave to the end without questioning anything.

If our needs aren't met, how is it marriage counseling? Isn't that more of how to make the WS feel less guilt?

I actually told a counselor off (IC), got up and left. Last visit. I was tired of being asked "OK, but what is going well". It had been 4 months. NOTHING was going well.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't they have continuing education requirements??

IKR!

It's almost like they wish they could put us on the highest dose of prozac possible so that we just ride the wave to the end without questioning anything.

This is exactly what my first IC wanted to do. Said she was tired of listening to me complain about my ex, and if I wasn't going to take my meds, then she wouldn't see me anymore... that was my last session with her.

[This message edited by steadfast1973 at 3:34 PM, February 13th (Thursday)]


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

These are the questions that the MC gave as a minimum for disclosure. The MC is male, 60ish, and is published in the area of marriage/infidelity recovery. I cannot imagine moving forward without these questions being answered.

With whom did you have an affair?

When and where did you meet them?

Who pursued who in the relationship?

Who else knows of the A?

How much money did you spend on her/him? What did they spend on you?

Where did you take her?

When did the relationship become sexual?

How many times did you have sex?

Where did you have sex?

Did you have sexual contact in our home? In our bed?

Has the relationship been severed?

Who broke it off?

How do you feel about her now?

Has there been other affairs, emotional or sexual?

Did you use protection? Have you been tested for std's?

We used this as a starting point and I had many more specific questions.

[This message edited by Lovedyoumore at 3:36 PM, February 13th (Thursday)]


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1473 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
foolishlycluless
♀ Member
Member # 41404
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Never,

I Googled "couples counseling" and my town, and that's how I found mine. I went to the website and read the bios of their counselors, and picked the one whose experience I thought matched what we needed. She has an extensive background, and has supported me all along.

Good luck.


BW 55
WH 59
M 30 yrs, together 33 yrs, no children.
D-Day #1: 9/23/2013, EA 15+ months, PA with 34 YO business assoc
D-Day #2: 11/27/2013, OW, EA for 2-3 yrs (2005-2007), PA
D-Day #3: 6/6/2014, found the sex video
Status: Putting on my bitch bo

Posts: 113 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Washington DC
Jovie
♀ Member
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our counselor is fabulous and in Northern NJ. Very close to GWB. PM me if you want her info.


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 214 | Registered: Jan 2014
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My W just got 'How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair', and I haven't seen it, but that's probably one thing this MC should read.

NOT "Just Friends" by Shirley Glass is a must-read for her.

How does letting the WS continue to lie (by omission) help a couple recover? How does treating the BS as too weak to stand the truth help the BS heal? How does stuffing the trauma help the BS heal?

I fear this MC is really the one who isn't strong enough.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10094 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, Jovie, thank you but unfortunately that is just too far away.We are not in the city.
My counselor, from what I can tell, feels like my Husband is doing everything he can to help us reconcile and that I have the major answers, that the details (not necessarily explicit sex stuff, more like how did it turn from that kiss she gave you to sex upon the next meeting, etc) will only hurt me without benefitting our recovery. She wants us to take the focus off of the AP and put it onto us so that we can begin to heal. I feel like I need to put the pieces of the puzzle together in order to be able to move on and only focus on us….


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 572 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
unfound
♀ Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Asking questions isn't about looking for more pain, in fact I think it's the opposite (even though it *is* painful). When you can freely ask questions it allows the WS to 1- be honest 2- show consistency in answers and 3- give you all the facts so you can make an informed decision on how you will react/respond/decide.

As far as further trauma... sigh... I think when questions aren't asked, then the BS's mind will more than likely come up with the worst case scenario. THAT to me was more traumatizing than any truth was.


Granted, if the questions you are asking are like "what was the barometric pressure on the day you met OP?", then yes, you're probably not gaining anything...

How can you move forward when you don't know what your moving forward from? How can you forgive (if that's a goal) if you don't know what you're forgiving?

As far as "re-victimizing" yourself. Do you think you are by asking questions? IMO, victims don't ask questions...people who want to understand what they're up against and learn everything about their experience and heal from it are strong...survivors.



ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14846 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And, gee, there's this: https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/after-an-affair-why-couples-fail

An excerpt:

She (i.e. Peggy Vaughn) hypothesized: A couple is more likely to stay married after an affair when they thoroughly discuss the whole situation.

55% of those who discussed the situation very little were still married (living together)

78% of those who discussed the situation a good bit were still married (and living together)

86% of those who discussed the situation a lot were still married (and living together)

And so on....
********************************************

If you go to dearpeggy.com, you can find a free download of Help for Therapists (and their clients).


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10094 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unfound: I know what you mean about the mind and conjuring up the worst case scenario. I had asked something about how did they transition from sex to the rest of their visit. He hesitated and looked really uncomfortable so helped him along…."I mean, so you lied there for a while holding her, got dressed and had a snack and a drink before you kissed her goodbye and then came home to us?"

He got a shocked look on his face. He said NO! There was no holding; it was awkward. I got right up, got dressed and was out of there. There was no kiss. I was so anxious. You have such a romantic scene set up in your head. I swear, it was nothing like how you have it in your head." I responded by letting him know that this is PRECISELY why I need to ask and he needs to answer. He says he fully gets that now and that he sees that when he answers the my questions, the times between one set of questions to the next set of questions has continued to stretch out and he thinks we are making progress when he doesn't resist. So…. I think we are making progress! And I agree; we ARE survivors; thank you for that perspective!
sisoon; I suppose that this research proves exactly what we seem to all know instinctively, so why do some really well meaning people have such a hard time listening to us?!


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 572 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
the past is gone
♀ Member
Member # 28813
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, playing the devil's advocate here:

Some people don't heal by hearing all the details. Some people end up torturing themselves by asking for details. I agree that everything I found out made me feel better as it cleared up a lot of questions but there were some things I never asked about. Something's I know I couldn't handle if I knew.

He had an A. He gave her attention and shared emotions with her and sex. Ok, do I really need to know any more than that. For me - no.

And if you think that knowing about the details will help in case there's another betrayal, you're wrong. Knowledge won't stop a what happened or could happen. Knowledge can only help u heal.

Me 52
Him 52
M 27 yrs
2 adult kids
Dday 2/12/10 and 1/13/14
R once again


Posts: 105 | Registered: Jun 2010
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Never... on my dday 4 years ago, I found out H had been seeing an old gf for about a month...I also found out the same night, he had had an A with her 20 years before when my oldest was a toddler. In my 35 years with this man, I never knew she existed. So believe me I had a lot of questions, but I succumbed to his rugsweeping and just stopped asking questions...no MC...and guess what 4 years later, here I am still wondering and definitely not trusting. My puzzle still has huge holes in it...his doesn't and what I put in the place of those missing pieces could very well be worse that the truth. I think the 20 year lie may very well be more damaging than the A four years ago...I can't imagine a MC not getting this...in my mind you are not re-victimizing yourself, but rather refusing to be a victim and demanding to know the truth...the whole truth so you can make an informed decision about your marriage.


Posts: 594 | Registered: Nov 2010
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The game is different when they have repeat As with same OW...that far apart...history repeats itself and by learning the history we can change the future...you need to know and he needs to understand why he has found himself in an A with this same woman twice in your marriage.

Posts: 594 | Registered: Nov 2010
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crossroads2010: I had almost the same situation as you…I found out that he and an affair with old girlfriend. Unfortunately, it took a month for him to actually tell me that he had an affair 12 years prior when my first born was under a year old. I was sure this meant that he loved her; there could be no other explanation in my mind. He consistently denied that that was the case, however had more difficulty with the explanation regarding why then if not for love. A lot of questions by me and a lot of work in IC and he has been able to get through several layers regarding his why, and I am truly satisfied that this was not about love. He had major foo issues, and I could go on and on regarding his why, but I am digressing from the original issue that you raised. If your husband is at all willing to go to counseling I believe it would help you both so much. My husband had been previously adamantly against it, but dove in after this affair and it has helped him, and me immensely.


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 572 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
Justgreatnews
♂ Member
Member # 41666
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Psychology Today has info on therapists via its website.

Posts: 261 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have gone through it; unfortunately I have had difficulty fining someone with specific infidelity training…. I will keep trying.


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 572 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
Topic Posts: 21
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