I am now extremely jealous of the fact that she has had an adventure, that she has felt the excitement, the tension, the butterflies, the joy and happiness of getting intimate both emotionally and physically with another man. I have never felt the urge to do this myself as I truly always loved my wife, but now, now things have changed and I feel that it is "unfair" that she gets to eat the cake and keep it. Not sure how to handle this. At all! She understands my feelings on this topic but can say nothing more on the subject. I am not sure I can re-choose my wife without knowing what else is out the, without having experienced something simular to what she did.
I had a lot before I got married. There is only one "first love." Sex does not even have to be involved, but there is nothing like your first. It might be better with your next one, but it is different.
There is no way to do what you are saying you want to do without committing physically and emotionally and being totally into the other woman. Once you do it, you will have no desire for your wife until AFTER your affair with other woman has run its course, which may not be until after you are married to the other woman.
Your kids deserve better. They already have one parent who went off the deep end, now they've got another one ready to turn things upside down. You'll drive your wife over the edge at the same time you are off the deep end. They'll have no one.
Up until this point, you seemed a little more well-thought-out than this. How much thought and planning have you put into this? Try to write out, step by step, how all of this is going to play out, in some level of detail, from beginning to end.
Where are you going to meet this woman to have an affair with? Will she be married so you're breaking up another family? Or single so ultimately you will be breaking someone's heart? Will you be honest, that you are doing it to see how it feels because your wife did it to you?
Your wife was mentally weak, much weaker than you, much more emotional and less logical than you, and always has been. She was able to fool herself during the affair. Will you be able to fool yourself the same way she did?
Think this thing out.
Either you want to give it a try with your wife or you don't. This thing about exploring another woman may be a temporary diversion, but your problems and hurt will still be there when it's over. It won't take any of that away, and then you'll have a whole big load of additional problems on top of it.
Just wanted to add that I know it hurts, it's unbalanced, basically life is not fair.
I will 2nd that.
Raw, you are never going to even the field. You also have to realize that if your WW is truly remorseful, then there are no more butterflies. All that is left is disgust and self-loathing. Is that what you are in search of?
Look---I just got bombed with an unseen D-day 3 weeks ago. I am still semi-numb. But just because my WW is possibly broken beyond repair, there is NO FUCKING WAY ON EARTH that I am going to lower myself to her level. Everything moral that I have stood for up to now, I would be deliberately throwing away.
Like you, I have to lick my wounds, and be the best person that I can be. And believe me---I am all about an-eye-for-an-eye, but debasing myself isn't going to obtain that goal. What you need to do, is either accept that this has happened, and move forward, or not accept what has happened...and leave the relationship. If you can't get past her betrayal, then there is nothing wrong with exiting this relationship. You don't owe her anything more than being true to yourself.
All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D
Some additional background may be in order to convey a better understanding of my situation and thoughts occupying my mind: I met my wife when we were both 16, and for me it was love at first sight. I have never ever kissed, cuddled, slept with or even flirted with another woman. Ever. Never felt the touch of another woman's fingers, on my skin, breasts in my hands. I realize I would not be able to replicate what my wife has done to me, and that is not the point. I don't want to turn things upside down. I don't want revenge. It's not about an eye for an eye. I don't want to hurt her.
I want to help me.
I want to live a little.
I want to not come to my senses when I'm too old and feel I missed out.
I know it would be "just" sex. But it isn't "just" sex to me. It is an experience I have never had. Perhaps this is easily dismissed by those who have had plenty, for whom it is no big deal. I haven't even kissed another woman. Not that there has been a lack of opportunity. If had many women courting me and flirting with me. But I have never ever acted on it because of my commitment to my wife whom I loved, and still love in many ways. How many of the fantastic people here have never had anyone else, never had something even remotely emotional, sensual, sexual with another person than their cheating spouse? That would be really interesting to know.
I have always kept my high morals, always always taken the high road. I am tired of it. Look at where it has gotten me. I am tired of always making the right choices, being the bigger man, being too nice.
If I somehow decided, and found a way, to act on my feelings I would NEVER do anything with someone already in a relationship. I do not want to break a marriage or even someone's heart. I would be open and honest. Perhaps a ONS after a night at the club/pub. I might tell my wife, I might not. I might give her the choice if she wanted to know. I don't want approval for what I'm thinking about doing, but I do want a reality check. And I really do appreciate you all helping out! How much of a mess am I? How stupid and wrong are my thoughts and feelings? How much of an idiot would I be for doing this? Has anyone out there done something similar and can share their thoughts and feelings before during and after?
D-day #2 Jan 18, 2014: 12 month EA/PA (AP#3)+ admission of 5 month EA/PA in 1994 (AP#1).
D-day #1 May 2001: 2 month EA/PA (AP#2)
act like a man! either divorce your wife and go find other women or suck it up and be a faithful husband and good father.
You know, it's not just about you and your wife. you have children. do you care about them? do you not realize you're risking their health, well-being, and family so that you and your wife can play russian roulette with your marriage?
you want your wife to be waiting for you on the side while you go try out other women? Doesn't that sound familiar? that's what your wife did to you. do you want to be that kind of person?
if you want to get divorced, act like a man and do it. I can respect that.
Otherwise, you need to tough it out and be a good husband and father. What your wife did has no bearing on who you are.
just my thoughts......
i know this hurts. and life isn't fair. but you decide what kind of man you are. as for me? I choose to do the right thing, even if no one else does. I hope you feel the same way.
This is exactly how my WW describes it to me. And a part of me believes and want to believe that this is all that is left. BUT, another part of me has this lingering feeling that there is something still there (not that there is ANYTHING in her behavior to support it), something shimmering and glowing, treasured memories of stolen moments, a joy of having gotten the chance to once again experience the butterflies and the excitements. Perhaps the other man is not important and may have faded from memory and former glory, but the FEELING may still be there somewhere.
What do you think? Could I have a point here? Perhaps this question is better asked in another thread where involved spouses can also weigh in...?
I can respect that without feeling like kicking your ass. and I say that because i think good men, real men, honest, faithful, and courageous men, need to look out for each other. this shit sucks. but you can get through it.
you are going to wonder about what's in her mind for a long time. i'm sorry. you are. i still wonder about what's in my wife's mind over a year out. it's natural. we have discovered we can't trust them. and... more importantly, we can't trust ourselves to know what is going on in their minds. because we thought we knew them, but found out how wrong we were.
you need to remember that YOU are the prize. You're the good, honest, loyal man. She has proven she doesn't deserve you. She knows this, trust me. So what do you do? You watch her. She has to earn the trust back. And she won't be able to do it for quite some time. years.
But I believe it can be done.
as far as sex adventures? take it out on your wife. go bang her on the hood of a car by the beach. go out at midnight and do it on the lawn. bend her over the kitchen table. you may find you both like it immensely. it helped me.
be the man you can always look in the mirror. if it were easy, then good men wouldn't be so hard to find. have faith in yourself. be confident and secure that you are a good man.
good luck friend.
[This message edited by mike7 at 12:57 AM, August 1st (Friday)]
How much of a mess am I?
How stupid and wrong are my thoughts and feelings?
How much of an idiot would I be for doing this? Has anyone out there done something similar and can share their thoughts and feelings before during and after?
I don't want approval for what I'm thinking about doing, but I do want a reality check.
I have always kept my high morals, always always taken the high road. I am tired of it. Look at where it has gotten me. I am tired of always making the right choices, being the bigger man, being too nice.
It won't be worth it. Just because she values herself so little, don't you also belittle yourself. I know it doesn't mean much, but I'm proud of you. You are what a MAN should be. Boys should aspire to duplicate your strength in the face of adversity. Please, don't falter now.
Sending you strength brother.
rawdeal - listen to 5454. he knows what he's talking about. you may also wish to check out the betrayed menz thread. lot of good men like 5454 there. you will fit in well.
Raw, we're here. We understand. Let it out here, don't demean yourself. You're worth so much more.
If you choose to have an A, you will lose your self-respect. You'll be in the same boat as your WW, and you can see that's not a good place to be. You need to be solid to give your WW something to reach for.
Otherwise your M will be -- forever -- adrift in infidelity or the threat of it. There will be no high ground for anyone to stand on or strive for. You'll pay, WW will pay, and worst of all your kids will pay, probably in ways you can't even predict or comprehend just now.
If your feelings of wanting to be with other women are powerful enough it probably means your M is not viable. Do the honorable thing and D. Otherwise, man up, be faithful, and work through this thing. Might lead to D anyway.
In case I wasn't clear: DON'T HAVE A FUCKING A. DON'T. JUST DON'T.
[This message edited by mhca at 2:46 AM, August 1st (Friday)]
Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961
You have shared your feelings with your wife and she tells you that she understand but can say nothing more. With all due respect, she needs to step it up. She needs to romance you, and recreate the feelings of joy and happiness that used to exist and basically remind you of how she can satisfy your need of feeling wanted and desired. It will not be the same as someone new, but those feelings of excitement, tension, butterflies and joy can be rekindled if your wife is willing to try and you are receptive to her efforts. She can buy and wear lingerie for you, write you love notes, plan dates, give back rubs, cook your favourite dinner, purchase gifts, etc.... Remind her that you are giving her the chance that she did not give you - the chance to improve your marriage.
Sending you grace, dignity and strength.
Good points meplusfour - thanks!!! She is doing some of what you are saying, but since she knows how I feel I think I could expect more. She should really, REALLY make me feel special.
[This message edited by RawDeal75 at 3:27 AM, August 2nd (Saturday)]
I for one don't hold anything against you for your feelings but it really sounds like you may want to divorce your wife. If that the case then do it and go experience what you feel you've missed out on. You're going to live a pathetic existence if you remain unhappy. Your kids will be affected by it.
I can tell you one thing for sure that sex without love isn't nearly as good and your not missing out on a damn thing. With that said if that's what you're having now then by all means put an end to it. Some folks just won't ever be able to deal with this shit and that's why the almighty himself excuses an individual from the marriage on account of infidelity. I'm not convinced I'm actually in for R with my wife and I've been trying the best I can for a year and a few months. It's not about revenge though its about me being able to get over all of the shit she has dumped on me and our children.
I always told my wife that sex with someone you don't really love isn't that good at all. I had a few experiences as a really young man but I honestly never thought about any of those girls when my wife and I started a real relationship with one another. She had never been with anyone besides me. Obviously she didn't believe me because she has wondered about it our whole relationship and had to try it for herself. Now according to her she didn't love him and it wasn't good but you could have fooled me. It lasted a little over a year and had no plans on stopping it. I had the luxury of text messages, pictures, and all the other things that go with this shit just like you had. It really fucks up your mind reading something your wife wrote to another man about how good life would be with him or how wonderful their marriage would be and how they'd raise my kids. Let alone the ones about how she couldn't wait for him to get inside her. I gave this woman all I had but it was never enough. She had no reason to do what she did but she did.
These things eat at your soul like cancer and figuring out how to let them go is something I haven't figured out for myself yet. One day I think that I get it and the next I'm completely clueless. I guess I've gotten of topic and started talking about me. The point of the post is that it's your decision man but divorce her first. You will always have the moral high ground with yourself and most importantly your children. Think long and hard before you act though. It's going to affect a lot of things. You may divorce and meet an angel that will love you and you alone for the rest of your life and again you may very well meet the anti-christ that will forever wreck you. Don't fear the devil you know, its the devil you don't know that you have to watch out for. Best of luck to you brother. Actually best of luck to us all.
just wanted to say I am struggling with the same things you are and I have the same feelings as you. Being emasculated sucks, and lets face it there are few tools to address that.
Do I love my WW, or am I just pussy-whipped? Etc.
See my WW is now starting to hit menopause. Her libido is diminishing. But when it was time to take her sexuality out with 'a bang', it was with OM. Not me. Therein is my PAIN.
She was never really 'sexual' with me in our 20 years. Since she no longer needed to win me or get my approval, sex was an obsolete tool.
In her journal from 2008, she opined that she only ever had truly 'let go' with two guys in her past...and one of the names was OM (from a previous time, before I met her, in a relationship in which he did not want anything other than sex from my WW as a condition of the relationship). My name was not the other one.
So, I ALSO want to know (remember) what it is like to experience another woman in a visceral way. Not have an RA. It is feeling.
I have decided that if in choose that, then I will separate from my wife and be honest. No lies, no cheating, and no MOW of course.
I feel your angst. It is angst I believe.
[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:06 PM, August 1st (Friday)]
In another post you say "I know it would be "just" sex. But it isn't "just" sex to me. It is an experience I have never had. Perhaps this is easily dismissed by those who have had plenty, for whom it is no big deal." You go on to say, "I do not want to break a marriage or even someone's heart. I would be open and honest. Perhaps a ONS after a night at the club/pub."
That's apples and oranges. The emotional intensity of the affair is what all the big deal is about. If it's just sex, it kind of sucks. It feels good while you're doing it, then it's over, like looking forward to eating your favorite meal at your favorite restaurant. The good part of the affair is the NEW RELATIONSHIP aspect of it, it's waking up in the morning, thinking about the other person, getting to know the other person - the SENSE OF POSSIBILITY that comes along with a new love relationship. The sex alone, removed from those other things, is just a temporary sensual pleasure, like eating a good meal.
Imagine you have a friend who has driven only one car his entire life, and he's talking to you about how he wants to try driving another car, a "new" "used" car, but no matter if he likes it or not, he can't keep the "new" "used" car. He tells you he doesn't care if he can't keep it, he wants to feel the excitement, see how the other car handles, does it take turns well, how fast does it accelerate, is the sound system better, all of that stuff. Wouldn't you tell him that it's great to drive a "new" "used" car, but you don't want him to be disappointed, not to get his hopes up, after all, it's just a car, it's not going to be all that much different from the car he's already driving, it may accelerate faster or turn better, but not THAT MUCH BETTER, it's really going to be about the same, and in any event, he can't keep the "new" "used" car even if he likes it?
You are building up the "experience" in your head way beyond what it will be. If you have a full-blown affair where you consider the new person as a possibility for your future and allow yourself to fall "in love," THAT will be a very powerful emotional experience. THAT is what your wife had. If you just want to have sex with someone else, to feel a different person's breasts, feel the touch of a different person on your skin, a different scent, that will most likely be disappointing based on what you seem to feel you are missing out on. In my opinion, so not worth it.
[This message edited by wk55hn at 3:12 AM, August 2nd (Saturday)]
I realize I would not be able to replicate what my wife has done to me, and that is not the point. I don't want to turn things upside down. I don't want revenge. It's not about an eye for an eye. I don't want to hurt her.
Of course you want revenge, you want to hurt her, you want her to pay for her crimes, you want justice, fairness, as you said in an earlier post, you want "balance." It's not ONLY about wanting a new experience. You can't bullshit a bullshitter. I have been where you are, I think most of the other posters here have been there, too.
BUT, another part of me has this lingering feeling that there is something still there (not that there is ANYTHING in her behavior to support it), something shimmering and glowing, treasured memories of stolen moments, a joy of having gotten the chance to once again experience the butterflies and the excitements. Perhaps the other man is not important and may have faded from memory and former glory, but the FEELING may still be there somewhere.
Could be true. Know way of ever knowing unless she tells you. I have good memories of relationships I had before I met my wife. But I don't think the memories would be good if they had come from a relationship where I was betraying my spouse.
Is it realistic to expect I would choose her again (knowing what she is or was capable of) without knowing what else is out there?
Probably not. But even with the infidelity, you are already tied to her through a long marriage and having kids together. You can dump her and start again, but it's not exactly a do-over. The slate doesn't get wiped clean, you don't start fresh. You will have an ex-wife who you are tied to for life.
My kids are my number one priority. I live and die for them. But can they be happy with a father who potentially isn't, who may live his life resenyful and worried about his choices?
Wow, that's just like the cheaters think. Yes, your kids can be happy with a father who isn't, they will not be wondering whether or not you are happy. They will be happy unless you take it out on them. You can cross that bridge IF you come to it. You having an affair is not going to help your kids.
[This message edited by wk55hn at 3:56 AM, August 2nd (Saturday)]
Wow, that's just like the cheaters think. I wonder if your wife thought the same way while she was having her affair? Yes, your kids can be happy with a father who isn't, unless you are taking it out on them. You can cross that bridge IF you come to it, IF that gets to be a problem, IF you are taking it out on them.
Let her know if she's not doing what you need. When I was where you are, my wife was doing a lot, but still there were times when I would tell her things to the effect of, "I have one foot out the door, whatever you're doing, it's not enough, you better step it up or I'm gone." Funny how these things seem to follow the same basic pattern for everyone.