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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 13
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((wb)))

I don't want you to struggle, my friend. I know you work with Divorce Care groups. Are you feeling pressured to forgive? I wonder if forgiveness is defined exactly right.

I believe I have shared it before, but the minister who led my divorce care group talked about forgiveness. He said that it was ok not to forgive. It was ok to not be ready. For me, that was the message I needed to hear. I was stuck because I was resisting one more "You need to" message. In fact, this minister said that the first step to forgiving was thinking about being ready to think about being ready someday. Baby steps.

White washing what happened is not wise. Hanging on to the horror is not either. What is the middle ground for surviving? For me it is framing it into the story telling. Putting it here so I don't carry it in my head or my heart.

Biologically, I think we must forget the degree of what we felt. I believe this because I don't kill him where he stands every time I see him!!

Early strength is ability to rage at what was done. To define ourselves as worthy of that rage, to push back and place boundaries.

Later strength is being strong enough to stand without the rage. To trust our boundaries enough to live within them without constantly throwing them up in front of others (the Ns). To define ourselves wholly without reference to the past.

Rambling thoughts on a snow day.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5808 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
littlefoggy
♀ Member
Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi castellana!

Sit right down!

I felt like that, too. I missed every red flag. But once I got some space and perspective, they pop right out. I was no longer under his influence and I could see him clearly for what his was.


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2013
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

White washing what happened is not wise. Hanging on to the horror is not either. What is the middle ground for surviving? For me it is framing it into the story telling. Putting it here so I don't carry it in my head or my heart.

Biologically, I think we must forget the degree of what we felt. I believe this because I don't kill him where he stands every time I see him!!

Early strength is ability to rage at what was done. To define ourselves as worthy of that rage, to push back and place boundaries.

Later strength is being strong enough to stand without the rage. To trust our boundaries enough to live within them without constantly throwing them up in front of others (the Ns). To define ourselves wholly without reference to the past.

^^^THIS!^^^

Thank you WB, and Care, for bringing up rage and forgiveness!

I logged many many hours with psychologists. This is how rage was explained to me: The psychologically healthy person will feel rage for a certain amount of time. One of the reasons why it's healthy is because it empowers victims. Here's a quote from Psychology Today:

Sometimes we need to hold onto the very thing that prevents us from forgiving in order to cope and survive--anger. Anger can be a powerful motivator, especially for those who have been victimized. Anger can help us rise above the victimization and to fight our way back from the most devastating of traumas. For example, research shows that female victims of rape who allowed themselves to express their rage about being raped were able to recover from the trauma much better than those who never got angry. It is often anger that motivates a victim to continue facing the pain.

The psychologists told me that as we get stronger, and reach out more and more, and start to move on with other parts of our lives, the rage will dissipate slowly and simply be replaced by other things: new friends, a job, and focusing on yourself and your life. Sooner or later, if you have enough other things going on, there will be no room for the rage.

Ultimately you start to define your story YOURSELF, as Caregiver posted above.

I was encouraged to detach, stop worrying about him, and start focusing on me. I actually wore a rubber band, and every time I started thinking about him and how maybe he didn't mean what did, I snapped it. I had to snap it a lot. Some days, when I actually think I might be winning this custody war to protect my children, I STILL feel sympathy towards STBX. It's nuts.

Also, I've been thinking about the five stages of grief. You'll see anger. Whew! And you end with acceptance, not necessarily forgiveness.

For me, the challenge is how to forgive and still remain true to myself and what this person has done to me??? I suppose, I'm not nearly there yet.

Thanks, WB, for sharing this. It's so much to think about. Hang in there. (((((HUGS)))))


Posts: 1694 | Registered: Oct 2011
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I felt like that, too. I missed every red flag. But once I got some space and perspective, they pop right out. I was no longer under his influence and I could see him clearly for what his was.

Me too, exactly.

(Sorry for hogging the board today. So much here to think about.)


Posts: 1694 | Registered: Oct 2011
littlefoggy
♀ Member
Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also, I've been thinking about the five stages of grief. You'll see anger. Whew! And you end with acceptance, not necessarily forgiveness.

An important thing someone said is that the stages are not linear. They are circular and cyclical and not even in order. You will revisit them and jump around them.

I have to acceptance several times and to anger a dozen times weekly. I am probably still in denial.

I drive the TARDIS through the stages. Wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey stagey....stuff.

[This message edited by littlefoggy at 12:10 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2013
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgiveness for what he did to me-he's got it. Not that I've told him anything of the sort. Forgiveness for what he continues to put those I love thru? Not yet! He'll I'm still angry with every new infraction. He just digs himself a deeper hole.

Hugs,


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5066 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
GreatRoleModel
♀ Member
Member # 36809
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ditto Kajem that is exactly how I feel.


BS (me)
XWS (him) NPD
DIVORCED!!!
It takes a village to deal with the village idiot!

Posts: 331 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: NC
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like I cannot afford forgiveness or empathy or compassion, not yet.

I am afraid that it would leave me vulnerable to him. I am not through the detachment yet. When I read about the emptiness he must feel, it makes me hurt for him. I cannot afford that, not yet.

I still need the anger, it protects me. It helps me to keep no contact. Just for now, until more time goes by.

I suppose the fact that I am still dealing with the practical issues, the mess that he left me with doesn't make forgiveness come so easily.

Maybe when I get to indifference, when the mess is cleaned up, when I feel like I have a handle on my new life, maybe then I can forgive.

Maybe, just feel no rush for that yet.


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divorced 8/5/14


Posts: 1336 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can,

for the record, it took me years to forgive him. And it's been 2 years since XSO cheated... I'm not there yet. Close, but not quite. Although I probably should be there by now... it doesn't matter-we have no reason to talk to each other and we don't.

When you're ready to forgive - You're ready. Trust in YOUR process to heal. Everyone is different, but we all need to trust that our process is helping us to heal at our own pace.

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5066 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello, (((Tribe!)))

Welcome to the new folks. I'm sorry you have to be here, but this is the most fantastic group of cheerleading, advice-giving, comforting and supportive people you can be around during this particular storm. If it weren't for these guys, I wouldn't be here. Seriously.

jj, that last one was the single most beautiful song in the world... Gonna be hard to top that one, buddy. It made me see pictures I hadn't imagined were able to form any longer.

Yes, I'm still alive. Still breathing. And I survived the worst part of the year. The last 3 months or so have been my "anniversary" dates, and I wanted to see if I could get through them without acknowledging them here, without having to say, "On this day, XH..."

I did it. I took them all back. They belong to me and only me, now. I turned 50 a few weeks ago, and got to ignore the Super Bowl instead of it consuming my birthday another year. I didn't have to give a rip that the Seachickens won, because I don't have to care or worry about the screaming while pretending I care. I survived!

And what's more, though I had moments of down, I've had many more of soaring, pride in myself and power!

I'm not who I used to be, at all. I am so NOT who I was told, who I was raised to be. Who I was expected to be. I am finding that, inside me, there is a woman who does not quake when things go a little sideways, when someone raises their voice. That woman is now walking toward the voice to see if there's something to call the police over. She does not hide from trouble, but faces it head-on.

She is angry. That is an understatement. She is furious, and that fury will not be quelled. It's been 50 years in the making, and it is enormous. What is best about the fury is that it is contained within a body which can control and direct it, turning it into a reason to change what is wrong, stand up for what she believes, and alter her own perceptions of herself and the world.

I've grown into something I never expected: MYSELF. What amuses me is that, this new person, who would have cried when challenged on any belief in her past life, now stands still and says, "It IS reasonable to believe that someone should respect me enough not to...." And not only can I say it, but I really, truly expect it. I DO deserve to be cherished, respected and loved for who I am, not what I bring to the table.

And I like this new me. I can be a bit overwhelming to those who wait for the old "real" me, and even scary. I laugh inside, knowing this fear of me is only because I've surprised them with the passion of my new life, a life some of them are afraid to find for themselves.

A life fitting for someone like me. One in which I now hold the cards, and decide who stays and who goes.

What has been sad to realize, though, is that XH's new "love" (from Saudi Arabia and fully unaware because she has not seen him in person, yet,) does not know that the songs he posts to her on FB, the words he writes... are all recycled. I heard them already, and she does not know that. Following on that sadness is the realization that those songs and words never belonged to me, either. Neither of us were special, and she is betting a green card on an illusion.

Sad for her, who I cannot save. But soaring above is my own Eagle, seeing clearly what was illusion for me.

No longer illusion. A real person. A woman worth having.

Me.


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoHurt - thank you!
Boom! What a wonderful post!
Isn't it great?
Soooo happy for you.
(hey, maybe you could look into SI's new 'name change' feature?)

Posts: 6572 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, jj... thank YOU. BTW, I absolutely want to spend a year sharing dog food with you, learning to bark AND bite, chasing cats and squirrels, and mostly, looking up at you with these puppy dog eyes that adore how you can turn mere words into such powerful things: beauty and truth! You are an amazing talent, and I do wish you would put these things into a book we can get autographed and hold, reading these truths over and over. You're such a hoot and an inspiration!

Perhaps it IS time to change my name. SoStrong? PowerChick? Any ideas, wordman?

How about a "Name the New Woman" contest? No prize but acclaim for best new name. I think that would be fun. I've missed you guys, but I needed to learn strength on my own, for myself.


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,
Its been a very long time sense I have posted here.

Ohhhhh the hell I put myself through. Why oh why do we love the NPD's? Why do we try knowing damn well it will not change the thought process of them.

It's funny, that when I moved out he was with me all the time, still a roller-coaster but the hope was there. The little sweet nothings that were said and the I love you so much.. I wonder if I should have you move home? That went on for a year.

I ended up moving back home really thinking that we were going to move up and over this shit whole. Ummm, not so much.

Now we are back to the NPD stating " I think we should get a divorce, I want to move on and find someone knew if I get the chance. This just isn't working, I need to go out more and make myself happy, How do I look? I am looking pretty good? God is leading me away from the marriage.. I only had you come back for financial reasons to help us both".
Oh he goes on and on about him him him him and his needs needs needs and everything this about us is negative in his mind".

They sure can pull you in and push you out.

I have learned never to believe a word he says now. I saw the flags but had to give it ONE MORE shot! And I shot myself in the foot for giving up my place and moving back home only to have to move again. He can have the house. I don't want it.

So, I tell him that he can file for divorce sense he is the one that wants it and he flipped out because I said I will not file. He WANTS ME TO DO THE DIRTY WORK.... said he needs me to do so that way he knows I won't pull some dirty shit on him! If I have not pulled anything dirty in these 5 years of hell, why the hell would I do that now? I am not him, I don't think like that!

Anyways, I am not even hurt by all this. I am just ready to save money and get the hell out of dodge and never look back!

He is sick in this way of thinking.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 19 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
False R. Still Lying.
Will be divorcing soon!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"!

Posts: 2661 | Registered: Aug 2011
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Faithful)))

I have one word: crazymaking.

Hugs.


Posts: 1694 | Registered: Oct 2011
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoHurt, I had all these ideas reading your post of what I would say and celebrate... and jj, wordman that he is, summed it up in one: BOOM!!

I like a new name (as much as I hate having to learn them.)

To help a gal out, stay with the So (something) theme??

Young and hip: So Holla!

Lyrical and timely: SoHappy

In the spirit of "I am Woman..." SoHeard

an edge that celebrates the inner anger/fuel: SoTheHellWhat?

I like SoStrong. I like seeing you back on the board.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5808 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoBarefoot

Posts: 6572 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Faithful,

I can relate to you so well. Giving that second chance all the while knowing something is just not right.

20-20 hindsight.

October 2012, he left for his "soul mate", "the perfect life", after abusing me for 10 years. I accepted that, allowed that. I almost saw the reality but the pain was so intense, hence the name, cantaccept, I just could not accept that he was as bad as I felt.

He only stayed away for 2 months, not enough time for me to get strong, to learn.

I tried, i gave everything inside me to make it work. I didn't know what I was really dealing with.

Now I do know. It helps to keep strong but it is still a battle to not yearn for those early times. The times when you believed, when love seemed so real, when you felt so cherished.

It is hard to remember, to hold on to the reality of the illusion, it was only an illusion. Not for me though, I loved who he showed me, who he pretended to be.

Now, my heart aches but my mind knows. I have to listen to my mind.

Somehow we have to get to the place of forgiveness, first for ourselves. The place of strength that will never allow monsters to abuse us again.

One day at at time, yes like an addiction.


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divorced 8/5/14


Posts: 1336 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
sunsetslost
♂ Member
Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jjct: I'm not there yet. Couple of loose ends, and a wedding in May here. The groom once threw a rotisserie chicken at the bride from a second floor balcony so there is no way I'm missing that reception. Turned in my notice today at work. Soon it'll be party at sunsets
[URL=http://s901.photobucket.com/user/jojosunsetslost/media/6D160BDE-9368-407A-B9BB-6A134B373B9A_zpshii0xqud.jpg.html][/URL]


Divorced 7/11/14. New Beginning on the Gulf of Mexico. It's real nice.

Posts: 747 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: The beach.
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:43 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The groom once threw a rotisserie chicken at the bride from a second floor balcony so there is no way I'm missing that reception.


Posts: 6572 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
nekorb
♀ Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WHY did I continue to engage in conversation with WH even after I said,"my attorney suggested I not discuss this with you.".

WHY do I have the same conversation 1000 times expecting that *this time* he will get it.

WHY didn't he just leave me instead of cheating on me as well? Like leaving me in and of itself wouldn't have been devastating enough.

WHY do I let him seee cry?

WHY do I have to ASK for a hug/to be comforted when I'm sobbing right next to him.

WHY doesn't he love me anymore?

WHY couldn't he love and accept me the way I am?

On a positive note...last night during our convo/fight that I shouldn't have been having to begin with, he told me to "shut the fuck up". I told him that was completely unacceptable and that he should be treating me the way he would want and expect someone to treat his daughters.

When we were laying there in the dark I asked him what he would tell his daughters to do in my situation. He said,"Leave him.". I said,"Then why can't you understand that I don't want to just separate?".

Silence.

God, it was a long night.

We are telling the kids tonight. Ugh.


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1838 | Registered: Aug 2013
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