Thank you. You hit all on the head for me.
Sometimes, I wonder if that part of our lives was real, he too was abusive and obsessed with me. Not all the time but if I did something he didn't like or if I was going to out. I stopped going out even with his family. But, he could do whatever he wanted and I had to be okay with that. But, now he wants me to go out and have a great time.. so he says.
He doesn't want me anymore as far as a wife. He wants to be free. But, then talking about when I get another place of my own how he is going to come over and kick with me? Ummmm, no this time will be different. NC!
I will give him what he wants, I am tired of trying to get thru to him for the sake of the family and us. 5 frickings I have dealt with this new man of him. 20 years together. It is like watching him go backwards with his life. The way he is now is like watching a teenage boy just the way he even talks.
It is all crazy making. I don't understand how ppl like this don't see how they are effecting another human being with the emotional roller coaster. Do they see what they are doing? I could never in my life HURT someone SO much that I still claim to LOVE!
It is not fair. That we spouses, stayed and tired to HELP them, supported them even when they treated us like shit and cheated. That we loved them with all the evil crap that was done to us. That we were there always.
What I can't wrap my head around is what type of woman he wants now? I mean, I cook, clean, always gave up sex and fun sex at that, supported him and all his dreams, never stabbed him in the back, put up with his shit, was beckon call, doormat basically. Always trying to make sure he was happy. So, now he wants to find someone else again, but what type of woman? A demanding woman? A woman that does what she wants no matter what he thinks or feels, someone that doesn't love him unconditionally, someone that bitches all the time? ect.....
It just seems like a slap in the face when every man we know keeps telling him he is a fool and he is going to regret it. Why can they see me for the woman I am but he can't? Why won't he do everything possible to get help? To keep a great wife and just love me. I never asked for anything except to love me. That was all I asked.
I was the same way, cooking, cleaning, sex anytime, yada yada yada. That wasn't even remotely the picture of me that he drew, either to the counselor, the court or anyone he talks to now. I was lazy, crazy, abusive, unsupportive, yada yada yada. Doesn't matter that his version is completely wrong. Doesn't matter that he accuses me of doing the things he did that I would never do. Doesn't matter.
Because you can NOT make sense of crazy, and that's what they are. Plain and simple. There is truth, but it resides with you. Not him. He will never acknowledge what you truly are, because it would mean he is wrong.
As to what type of woman he wants now? The same as he had in you. He just wants a new model cuz the "old" one developed one of those squeaky wheels. Whether or not it's true does not matter. We are possessions, not people. We always were. No amount of Valentine, Christmas, birthday or whatever cards and gifts ever meant anything but "Don't leave me! I like the way you tell me I'm a god! I like the way you look at me!" Yada yada freaking yada.
Scripts are scripts. His will be rewritten as necessary to claim more victims, while yours is somewhat different. Yours will be written for you, and for a future that is wonderfully free of abuse. You have it in your power to completely change your life, and it starts with you. His life will not change: empty, illusion and valueless.
Of course it's a slap in the face when other men see what he's losing. But the slap is to HIS face, not yours. A good man will see you for who you are, and will love you, where this smoke-n-mirrors illusion did not. Wait for THAT guy. Let this one go. He's so not right for you. Or anyone else.
(((Faithful))) Keep your chin up... because the sky is your limit, not the fool who wants a new model.
Nekorb, I feel your pain, too. I once played "For Whom The Bell Tolls" for my XH, and told him this was his future. That if things didn't change, this would be him. He listened, and said, "sad song." And walked away. That was it. I never got remorse, pain, sorrow, love or anything real from this guy, and now I'm some joke he tells his friends. But you know what? The joke's on HIM.
Freedom is the most peaceful, joyous place! I honestly did not believe anyone here who said it would be. I did not believe that I would ever be sitting here, master of my own life, safe, happy and free. But I am. And from this perspective, I can see how much of a lie it all was. And instead of pain, I feel relief! I don't have to live a lie, or keep my mouth shut because I don't want fallout, or ANY of the things I did to keep things "normal" before. None of it!
I have become a Rebellious Nonconformist, (made it up myself!) who does SO love NOT having to deal with those lies any longer! I never would have been able to continue that other life, and was planning not to... passive suicide was my plan. BUT! Once I got here, to this Tribe, I started hearing what sounded like a life I wanted. It was scary, so difficult to attain, and a long journey, but it was WORTH IT.
Not every loss in life is a bad one. It just feels that way until you get on the other side and the smoke is gone and the mirrors are broken. Suddenly, there is so much more to life than trying to stay "out of trouble" with them!
(((Nekorb))) You can get here, too. And you'll see... this is a beautiful place.
CG and jj, GREAT names!! I missed you, too, CG. It was good to take that break, but it's great to be back, as evidenced by my far more epic-length posts than before. I seem to have stored up some words! SoTheHellWhat and SoBarefoot are SO GREAT! I love them both, and can't decide which I love more. God help me if anyone else chimes in.
You have it in your power to completely change your life, and it starts with you.
Yes I do and I am changing it. I tried before and I remember the peace I did have when he was not around. It was my place and my life.
Thank you SoHurt.
My life is going to be great, this I know. I am strong, shoot this stuff is not for the weak and thru in a NPD is well..... WOW...
Out of this journey, I have learned so much about myself. I look in the mirror and I am proud of who I am and that he can NEVER break me!
I am just pissed about moving back home to a LIE.
and having to go thru another move.
I'm glad you remember how good it feels to be even semi-free of this foolishness. It helps a lot when you don't lose sight of that. But it can also be incredibly motivating to witness one final act of "The Play" they present, so that you have learned another valuable lesson.
Moving is hard. This I know. Hang in there, honey. You'll git 'er done.
The wonderful advise here is so empowering. I am trying to detach from my NPDWH. I don't know if he really a full fledged NPD, but has so many traits! I wonder so many times who is the real person? The man who gets angry and says cruel and mean things and withdraws love and gives the silent treatment of the charming, generous man I fell in love with? I do know, from reading here, and my basic instincts that have almost eroded to non existence that I, too, have walked on eggshells, running my life so he doesn't get mad, questioning myself and my feelings that this is not the way it's supposed to be. I am not perfect. I am a human being. But the things that I get accused of are not true. Sometimes I wonder if I got very codependent in dealing with him and that does stem from FOO issues.
I wanted to say something about forgiveness.
This is my second time around with infidelity. With xWH#1, I knew that someday I would forgive him. I made that decision and that was freeing. People have so often told me that I'm too nice and perhaps that's true because I do have empathy and forgive.
But first, I worked on me. I forgave myself first.
It took me many years, probably more than 5 or 6 that I was able to start to forgive xWH#1. I got to a point that I was able to start to understand him a bit and knew that it didn't have to do with me, but him. It takes time, and it's not something that you can force yourself to do.
But, the main thing, is if you decide that you may be able to forgive them in time and let it go, that will free you from guilt or the feeling you have to. It will come someday when you are healed or more precisely, healed enough. I wonder if we will ever be fully healed from all this shit.
But that is all in do time!
But they're SO GOOD at manipulating and hoovering and all the other tricks!
YES! He is still doing it. Wants favors, hugs, ect and the next breath talking about D and me moving....
Than he said "So when you move are you saying you will never come back to me"? Um... you fired me as a wife and are willing to put me thru the fire of hell again... DONE! NOT COMING BACK! You had ALL your chances. You lost, but I WON, I get to always have me in my life!
Many have said it before, including me:
WE NEED A "THUMBS UP" BUTTON!
I have a question about divorce and custody.
My oldest kid is 7 youngest is 2. My STBX is not violent, but he is moody, has a bad temper, and I really don't want him spending more than two nights alone with them, or taking them out of the city, his parents live in another city. His mother is very controlling, and a narcissist, and she is not someone I would ever leave my children alone with. My ex on the other hand, give his parents full authority to do whatever they want when they are with the kids, it has always drove me crazy but now without me to be there and supervise, I'm just worried about that happening. What can I do? Am I being petty? Or are these reasonable concerns?
The only thing I told my lawyer about my ex is that he is verbally abusive. How can I tell my lawyer these concerns without him thinking I'm just being difficult and controlling?
The reason I posted this in this forum, is because I feel you guys more than anyone would understand the type of person I'm dealing with.
When we were laying there in the dark I asked him what he would tell his daughters to do in my situation. He said,"Leave him.".
Nekorb I had the same exact conversation with 'my XH, the next day I told him to leave.
On one level I think XH doesn't want his daughters growing up and having their partners cheat. On the other hand he doesn't see how ripe they are for unhealthy relationships thanks to his behavior.
But take some time and write up all of the incidents that make you worry for your children's emotional well-being.
Are you in therapy? It took a therapist to tell me that my husband's behavior was controlling and unreasonable. She helped me to define the behavior that was troubling.
I am fighting for sole custody, and it's a nightmare.The burden is on me to prove that my H is a danger to our children. I think that only your attorney can tell you if you have a case for no overnights or night - unfortunately I'm guessing that you don't. But if you can define and describe the troubling behavior and describe it to your attorney, he can tell you your odds.
But I sent out a batch of resumes, and then I got two phone/skype interviews, and now I have two real interviews this week!!! For good jobs. The money isn't quite where I wish it was, but the jobs are good, the titles are good, the job descriptions are good, and one of them is at an amazing institution a few blocks from my children's school!
I guess that what I'm learning is that yes, my divorce is the WORST. Debilitating, terrifying, and hurting me badly financially and psychologically. I can't fix it. I can't control it. It's a runaway train that is pulling me along, and I've actually at times felt like it was making me physically sick in the long run. But when I look out into every other part of my life (children, schools, neighbors, colleagues), the rest of the world out there is still bright and sunny most of the time, and running normally. I just need to focus on this.
I really believe that when we take tiny steps, worlds magically open to us, and I believe that one of my steps was starting to finally post here on this thread. Thank you, all.
ps: They are writing jobs!
Jess, someone gave me this advice once, and I actually think it was Caregiver who also posts on this thread!
Can you also write up your ideal custody situation? Think about how much time you would give your husband with your children. Think about where it would take place. When? What about holidays? Summers? Vacations? Be creative.
Then think about the very worst situation - that you can live with.
This helped me to see ways I could appease STBX - where I could give in, and where I needed to fight. Unfortunately it did not help me much so far because STBX is a classic NPD and won't budge on anything, but it's still a good exercise, and I know it will help me in the long run.
Also, re: court: others here may disagree with me, but if it's at all possible to settle out of court with your NPD STBX, you'll want to do it. Sometimes that's impossible, of course, but NPDs are awful in court. They will try to ruin your life to get what they want.
Coincidently I was just watching this video this morning - maybe it will help you.
The interviewee is the author of the book Splitting, a book about divorcing someone with NPD. When I first started this process, I could not believe that anyone would act like the people in the book. But my STBX has done every single thing in there - it's like his playbook. If you are really worried, you might want to check out the book.
[This message edited by ChoosingHope at 3:04 PM, March 8th (Saturday)]
Jess, consider having a VAR on you, to capture his yelling & verbal abuse. Also google
High Conflict Divorce in (your area) - h/t to CH!
It's hard for me to talk about myself. I know that sounds odd. But at my consultation, I had planned a whole bunch of stuff to tell the lawyer, but I couldn't say any of it.
Do you guys think I could email him? Send him an email telling him my husbands behaviour the past 8 yrs and why I want to try for full custody or give him as little as possible.
Or should I just work up the courage and force myself to talk in person?
It seems that CH's recommendation (of cg's idea to "take notes") would apply here too, wouldn't it?
So, you'd write down your points, and just read them - like you're reading a story, and not so much 'talking about yourself'...make sense?
Make sure the notes contain "this is what happened",
objective stuff (the VAR would help too), and not what would be perceived as 'name calling' - makes your account more credible.
It is ok to include feelings; I feel threatened/I feel the kids are threatened by x,y,z...
It's actually not that "odd" to feel like you can't speak of and FOR yourself...at first.
Sending you strength Jess.
It has taken me 2 1/2 years to figure out how/why/when STBX manipulated me and gaslighted me and was extremely cruel to me. I was sort of in a fog.
Also, I still feel very ashamed of talking about my situation with anyone, especially my attorneys. So I understand.
This is tough stuff, and it's all so new to you. I am guessing that it will get clearer as you move forward and have some time to gain some distance from it. This is why a therapist can help so much.
So, yes, start by writing it down. You can do it.
A friend told me all I was doing was standing still while he swirled around me spewing names and threats. I lke to think of myself that way.
Hugs and welcome.
Similarly, a local church, especially one that offers Divorce Care, may have a woman who would be willing to be a "buddy" for some of the early stuff.
It is overwhelming at first. Ask for help, as hard as that is, find someone who can help you find your voice.
CH- Whoooo Hooooo! Job progress!!!! mojo and hoping for more good news.