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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 13
Ashland13
♀ Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's my own opinion that some people with narcissism learn how to play a game. It's reminiscent of alcoholism after people go to AA and are able to learn the ways of the meetings and have ready made answers to scenarios they may come upon and can then get around them and still drink.

There are a bunch of narcs in my life and they are so smart in their own ways, but they slip up.

What I'm finding, in regard to the game, is that Perv, sorry to generalize, and his siblings, will create situations for their lives and fill them with people who view them as they need to be seen. Perv will find ways to make what he is good at primary conversation so that he can "pump himself up". Then people will think he is this amazing person and that's partly why it takes so long and why others get reeled in.

He does not divulge his shortcomings or things he's not good at until he has you where he is familiar and then it's sometimes too late.

What I'm also learning is that narcissism sometimes can stem from childcare and how we are raised. In people I know and knew as children, if they are still NPD, it seems almost like a default personality that has to be corrected.

I remember my parents fought over my sister and the NPD parent won because her personality was stronger than the other. My sister? Highly NPD. The other parent didn't know the term but wanted to curb her traits and the other parent called it smothering.

I have this with my DD now. Another term people use is "ego centricism" for kids, I think because it's nicer.


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess


Posts: 2132 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
FindMyselfAgain
♀ Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the responses. Rested a little (no nap, but my eyes are focusing a little better for now), came back to read and want to try getting a bit more out. I'm still very much all over the place, and being sick certainly is not helping matters. So, I'd like to go ahead and apologize for my disjointed thoughts, confusing posts, crazy rambling. My head is kind of spinning (not like the Exorcist) and I'm not sure if it's from being sick or dealing with...well, whatever you want to call it...

I WILL NOT get my hopes up. I am still taking steps to get myself on more even footing to start a new life completely independent of him. But (man, I hate that word), I figure I can watch his actions in the meantime. His words are very nice to hear...because I have wanted to hear them for so long. Truth is, I am well aware that he is an accomplished liar and manipulator. I cannot trust his words, no matter how pretty may sound.

His actions...this is where it gets more confusing for me. His actions actually are lining up with his words much more than I think they ever have (at least, in relation to me).

He set up something (weird that probably only makes sense to me) that I had been asking him to do for over two years. He always told me he didn't want to because it made an awkward situation even more awkward. (Truth is, it was only awkward for him, because it put him in a position of actually having to be honest.)

He talked to his boss; told him that he has been abusive for years and had an affair with a (former) coworker and asked for his help in helping me. Up until a few days ago, I could not get in touch with him while he was at work. Now, even though no outside cell phones are allowed, I have his boss's phone number that I am to call anytime; his boss will find him and hand him his phone. He has already put in for days off that he knows are triggery for me (like from now through the end of the year), and had those dates confirmed with me along with me being asked if there were any I would like to add.

He is looking into counseling for himself. He says he is scared and opened up to me about a previous experience. Admits that his perception of the past could be way off. Has asked me to go with him at least to the first session, because he is concerned that he won't address something that needs to be; or, more importantly, he won't even see the issues that need to be addressed.

There are a lot of little things that he is doing that he has NEVER done before. I so hate the always/never speak; and try not to use it myself. However, it is absolutely applicable here. I can list them out...but honestly, I just don't want to. It makes me feel like an idiot for putting up with so much and getting so little back for so long...

Even earlier today...I was being a whiny baby (no, really...I was). He called on his lunch break and asked how I was feeling. I said something along the lines of "I'm better than yesterday, still feel like crap." Then he asked me WHAT I was feeling. That caught me off guard, and I said "I don't want to talk about my feelings right now." Then, he apologized (again) and said that none of this is my fault, that I don't deserve what he's done to me. He said "You'll be okay." and asked if there was anything he could do to help? Offered to leave work if I wanted him to. Meanwhile, I was still being a whiny baby. Told me he loved me, reminded me that I can call boss if I need or want anything, said he'll call before he leaves. He was really speaking so kindly and I was really being bitchy in return. I felt bad. I apologized for being bitchy. He said, "it's okay. You're not feeling well and I'm a major asshole. You're not being bitchy, you're being honest."

And...blah...my eyes are bugging me again. I need another break. Sorry...and thanks for being here.

((hugs)) to all that could use them.


DDay: October 7, 2011
R finally started in earnest: April 2014

Posts: 162 | Registered: Sep 2012
littlefoggy
♀ Member
Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, he got a lawyer.

And he wants a visitation schedule.

My L got a letter from his L dated Friday (I got it today). On Sunday, STBX got all demand-y with a visit ( but wouldn't say when he was bringing DD back) so I GTFOed. Better safe than sorry.

Based on the date of the letter, it was after he retained his L. So either he picked a enabling L or he is not taking the L's advice. Either way doesn't bode well for me.

I need to reread a chapter or two of Splitting


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 485 | Registered: Nov 2013
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((littlefoggy)))
My NPD doesn't have an attorney. He's represented himself while I've run through my retirement account and my parents' retirement savings to pay my attorneys. It's been the WORST possible situation because there is absolutely no one to talk any sense into him, or to explain even the most basic things to him.

We have said from the beginning that we wished he would hire an attorney.

I'm just sharing this because maybe it will help you in the long run.

(((BIG HUGS)))


Posts: 1562 | Registered: Oct 2011
Chippednotbroken
♀ Member
Member # 40170
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Back to crazy town. He is claiming his counselor, the one who told him to leave me alone, is now saying its ok to pursue me because we like familiar things and ill eventually heal and take,him back because he is familiar. So lunch tommorrow? He will show me how great he is!


Me BS 32
DDay July 13'
3 young kids

Posts: 290 | Registered: Aug 2013
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:31 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he is not taking the L's advice. Either way doesn't bode well for me.

Not so.
If he is not taking advice from his hired attorney, that's dumasses gift to you.

Let's do this Tribe. As often and as hard as possible. REVERSE every thing they throw our way. Words, legal motions, etc. Turn everything into our positive. Re-frame. Re-frame everything. 180. Turn it all around.
How could it be, that I'd lose everything - a house, a car, some baseball card possessions, every thing! to them and win?
That's simple.
If I "lose them" in the bargain it's worth it.

& (((ChoosingHope)))
have you ever heard? He has a fool for a client.
C'mon and eat over here, you're welcome woof!


Posts: 6421 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

& (((ChoosingHope)))
have you ever heard? He has a fool for a client.
C'mon and eat over here, you're welcome woof!

Oh yes, he has a big, fat, loud, arrogant, insane, delusional, lying, boorish, aggressive, scary, looney tune fool for a client.

Okay, I feel better now.


Posts: 1562 | Registered: Oct 2011
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey Chippednotbroken, will you have lunch with me? He's reeling you in with blandishments and bullshit. ( the throw up design here is so apropos)
BARK DAMN the damn cat!

Posts: 6421 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


You should fell better now!

Posts: 6421 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


You should fell better now!

I forgot a few!

Oh, never mind.


Posts: 1562 | Registered: Oct 2011
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have any of you had to deal with divorcing a vulnerable narcissist woman? She has me pegged as the "good guy" so I help with my two kids including a special needs son. She is claiming she can't work for the D purposes yet I have my kids at least 50% of the time and carry a full time job. She is constantly playing he "sorry I disappointed you" card and using that to pull me back into knight in shining armor mode.

She lies about OM still mostly (I believe), saying she doesn't see him anymore (she does, they keep breaking up and getting back together every few days) because it would look terrible in her child custody eval. OM, also likely a narcissist, has warned me she plans to manipulate the court for extra support and everything she can get. I don't know what to think anymore. Apparently I'm the supply target of two narcissists now (I never answered first contact with OM and he seems to have gone away).

In the meantime, I have been putting walls in the form of NC because I have no protective boundaries and I need to practice them. But NC pisses her off and she won't cooperate on the D.

I completely broke NC over text and told her my feelings (a mistake but I need to keep her happy until custody mediation, as I don't want her blowing up there, I'd rather be out of this ASAP). She completely sucked me back in, now she acts all happy because she got what she wanted, a miserable ex who will pay big time and be in her life. I'm tired of having to think like them, wondering what's the next step for a goal. I just want this divorce over with a minimum of damage to my kids. And I need to learn to say no to her and set limits.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 552 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*Raises hand*

Had to play nice, too.
Went to mediation - in separate rooms(!)
NC is a struggle at first - you're doing ok -
you know what you need to do to minimize damage.
I managed to remain civil, not reacting to any of her attempts to manipulate primarily by becoming boring - no longer a source of supply...

Keep everything documented and safely away from her. Get a VAR secreted on your person to fend off false charges...
Here's a safety thread for other ideas to consider
(give it a bump :)

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=474587&HL=17484

You got this Wellplayed)))


Posts: 6421 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
bent44
♀ Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I completely broke NC over text and told her my feelings (a mistake but I need to keep her happy until custody mediation, as I don't want her blowing up there, I'd rather be out of this ASAP). She completely sucked me back in, now she acts all happy because she got what she wanted, a miserable ex who will pay big time and be in her life. I'm tired of having to think like them, wondering what's the next step for a goal. I just want this divorce over with a minimum of damage to my kids. And I need to learn to say no to her and set limits.

GotPlayed, I am so sorry to hear about your situation. Please stay close here and post often. There is incredible support and wisdom to be found.
And,please, be gentle with yourself. NC with a narc is really tough....we have been programmed in the opposite direction. You will find your way.
Please also read all you can on narcs. Because you have kiddos, the journey continues well after divorce....I left 10/2010, and am still struggling to deal with xws. I do better some days than others. Overall, things are OK, considering who/what I am dealing with. The balance of keeping him "happy" and maintaining integrity is one f'ing thin line....sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. In the end, in my heart, I know I am doing what is right for my daughter, and this is all that matters!...well, almost all.
And, please add this to your defense arsenal....do not put anything in writing that you could not confidently read in front of a judge. This little tidbit helped keep emotion out of communication.
They are a stealthy bunch, and can really wear you down. Please take care of yourself. You are in a marathon, not a sprint.

Can, are you out there? Are you OK? Thinking of you!


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.

Update...he


Posts: 673 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, I am here, reading every day. Just no spark, nothing to say?

Neighbor passed away yesterday, the one I spoke of last week. Just feeling sad. Still doing though. Trying so hard to focus on work.

Went to the gym a couple of nights, that really helps.

Lost of talks with my son, he is bubbling over with talking lately. He went through infidelity 8 months ago. He finally has someone in person to talk to, his mom.

So he talks and I listen and listen and listen. It is worse to hear his pain than to feel my own. i hate to know that he is suffering, I can feel it. I try to help but it is not easy.

I try to be upbeat in front of him, he needs hope. I also find that I really need to cry. I am holding it in because I am never alone.

I think I am afraid that if I start again, I will start screaming again. I would never want him to see that.

I want him to have hope. I want him to start to feel better. I am afraid that if I show how deeply hurt I am it will make his pain worse.

I guess I had more to say than I thought.

Trying to keep up with everyone but I just feel empty of words to say to anyone.

I feel for all of you. I ache for all of us.

Just a slump, I will rise up again. Just riding out the pain.

Thank you for reaching out bent, I wasn't even logged in, just reading.

Thank you


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

divorcing


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can, it's ok to show him your pain, especially since he gets it! Then show him how to recover from the pain, that will be a life lesson for him, one he won't forget.

Gotplayed, things got so bad with my XH and ow -that I only had contact thru email. That way I could take the time to respond and I would have a written record of our conversations. If we had a conversation-I backed it up with an email. Every time I sent an email I wrote it with the thought a judge would be reading it. It helped me to keep my feelings out of it.

My thoughts were if I didn't tell him my feelings he wouldn't be able to use them against me. It was a form of self preservation. I needed to give him as little power over me as I could- he had me financially, I was doing my best to reclaim my power emotionally. I thought it was a small step-but with a narc it is a huge step. Like Jj said boring equals no supply. No supply can be very scary to a narc.

My divorce went fairly smooth-he was the one who wanted out so quick. It was after he realized what he agreed to and his interpretation of the agreement, along with me finding someone else-that was when he amped up his NPD game. Once he realized he couldn't control me directly, he used the kids to control me. He kept sinking lower and lower on the slime of humanity measuring stick! I think he's somewhere between slug and worm and still sinking.

Good luck.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4818 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
bent44
♀ Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, February 22nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can,
Glad to hear from you, and so sorry your plate is so full! You are an amazing woman. My condolences for the loss of your neighbor. You and your son are fortunate to have each other.
Read an amazing article somewhere along this journey that had an interesting take on feeling down/depressed. Basically said down times are viewed oddly in our society...that depression, rather than something to be condemned and judged, is often a necessary part of life, that it is our mind/bodies way of helping us prepare for something new in life- a resting time to ensure we have energy to grow.
Trying to convey this on one cup of coffee, so may be missing the mark, but I hope you get the jist.
Instead of judging ourselves for feeling blue, if we can embrace it and feel it, we will be stronger to embrace the future...in a good way.
You are all in my heart today. Wishing everyone the joy of a second cup of coffee!


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.

Update...he


Posts: 673 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, February 22nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

depression, rather than something to be condemned and judged, is often a necessary part of life, that it is our mind/bodies way of helping us prepare for something new in life- a resting time to ensure we have energy to grow.

Instead of judging ourselves for feeling blue, if we can embrace it and feel it, we will be stronger to embrace the future...in a good way.

I like this bent, thanks for putting it there!

Adding to this -
Since "Depression is anger without enthusiasm", in most cases I have noticed - that it is precisely the anger stage of healing that has been short-circuited.
Many times, the person has not "given themselves permission" to be angry. Well, because "I don't want to be *that* angry person." or "I don't want others to see me as an angry person."

I cannot overstate how huge a step it was for me - to give myself permission to feel *whatever*!
Embracing it all - fully -
carried me through the process of healing.

I'm not sure there's any other way than to fully embrace them.


Posts: 6421 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, February 22nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think to feel the pain, to feel depressed is natural after being betrayed and abused.

It does feel like a break, a break from the effort, just riding the wave until it passes.

Not fighting it, just riding it out.

The exercise does help with the anger, I do feel anger, it builds and now I know what it is. It is new for me. I never allowed myself anger before, only felt hurt.

Now, I feel the impatience build, the irritability, I feel it towards those who do not deserve it. I have been releasing it through exercise. It helps, I don't want to unleash it towards the innocent. At least I recognize what it is. I am trying to let it out in a healthy way.

It is frustrating to have the conversations in your head that you know in reality would never be possible. It would only cause more pain. Make me vulnerable. I cannot afford to be vulnerable.

Thanks everyone, I will just ride this out and come back a bit stronger.

Can


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

divorcing


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, February 22nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will just ride this out and come back a bit stronger.

You will, Can.

Sometimes you just need to coast. I've read a million great quotes about this process, but my favorite is still Churchill's: When you're going through hell, keep going.

He doesn't say ram your head through everything. Just keep going. Ride it out, coast, whatever you need to do to preserve your strength.


Posts: 1562 | Registered: Oct 2011
nekorb
♀ Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, February 23rd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been reading everyone's replies.

How is it I lived with a narcissist all these years and didn't know it?

How does hippocracy fit in with NPD?

ETA: do you share joint custody with your NPD ex or do you have sole custody?

[This message edited by nekorb at 10:35 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)]


Me: BS 44
Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat
Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
Heading for Divorce
3 kids: 15,17,19

Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart, wait for The Lord.


Posts: 1647 | Registered: Aug 2013
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