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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 13
Quakingaspen
♀ Member
Member # 41153
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((Southside)))))

There are people way wiser than I here to help with advice. But I understand your pain and conflict there. I don't know how old your kids are, but I am finding that mine are stronger than I give them credit for. I can't protect them forever from the reality of their father, but I can nurture them and show them a different kind of love. My 12 likes to remind me that I can't protect them from all pain.


I've seen enough.

WS-SA/NPD
D-Day: Too many in 17 years of marriage. LAST time 10/17/2013.


Posts: 122 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: A little bit closer to Reality
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, Southside. Something you wrote really popped out of the page at me:

...making him start visitation with the kids.

2 things came right to mind when I read this:

- You cannot make him do anything. You can't make him love his kids. You can't make him want to spend time with them. And you cannot make him be a good father.

- And, truly, the less time they are exposed to his toxic ways, the better. Most of us would give our eyeteeth to keep our children away from the evil manipulations, lies and abuse that they experience with the NPD and any associated people (friends, lovers, fiancees, soulmates, roommates, f*ck buddies, crack-hos, etc, etc.)

Please think long and hard about opening up this line of communication. I would let sleeping dogs lie and find some way to have family or friends watch the kids so I could get out for a few hours.

Are you divorced? Do you have court orders in place? Is he paying CS?

[This message edited by woundedby2 at 7:17 PM, May 13th (Tuesday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7802 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Took Prestone's "official" separation agreement to the L. She laughed,

I thought I felt something like the earth moving today! A L laughed. OMG that was it! I wasn't having sex, so that's the only reasonable conclusion.

Southside - listen to w2. She knows her stuff.


Posts: 6534 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree, I have kept my kids at bay and haven't really pushed for visitation but I realize that I need to give myself time and if he wants to play good dad with the new gf/fiancee- I am going to let him.

He doesn't pay child support, he's really a douche and it's a double edge sword to be honest. I KNOW because he wants to pretend he is a wonderful person he will have kids visit on a consistent basis as long as the fiancee is around he will play along.

IF the fiancee wants to stick around and try and hold him accountable to his kids, win-win for my kids they get to spend time with him and I can get some income to help support kids.

NOT to mention, give me chance to see if she will treat my kids well. Sad as it is, when it comes to him I trust strangers more than him to do what is best for my kids.

IF she bails, well at least the kids got to spend time with dad and i get some $$.. and more than likely he will go back to NPD victim nursing his heartbreak and I get my kids back 100%.

I would rather know what i am up against and work with my kids on healing their hurt and helping them learn how to cope than continue standing by and letting him bring all these ppl around them and always react.

You see our past dysfunction always was him running after his happily ever after and I protecting the kids and not exposing them to the new gf/love of life- me being painted as the villian and keeping him from kids and what not and this is my attempt at changing that dance. Being the bad guy is not something I am willing to continue doing with my kids because their anger is all towards me and they see Dad as oh so perfect and all that.

I know my kids will be collateral damage, no way to avoid that but if I can help minimize the damage I am going to try and have them start developing their own coping skills with how to deal with him.

Mine are little 10& 5..so I have long road ahead. Last 3 years have been very confusing for all since we kept some of the dysfunction but I think I am done and even if I stay alone and don't use the time to date or what not..I need some alone time to figure ME out..

I just need me time, I am my grandmothers full time caregiver and being codependent I have backslid into what I was trying to change when the affair happened and I am drowning.


Posts: 788 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Southsidecali welcome back!

The issue I had with my XH taking the kids for visitation - once he found out or even suspected I had plans - he would cancel at the last possible moment. It devastated my kids, as you can imagine, they felt rejected by him. He was using them as pawns in his sick way of controlling me.

I ended up recruiting friends to take my kids for overnights on his weekends. On my weekends I would invite their kids to spend the night. I have 4 DDs, it was a logistic mess at times, but those families ended up being my village that helped me raise my kids. They became confidants for my kids to bounce what was normal behavior and what wasn't.

My kids wouldn't be who they are without those families. They made a stressful time less stressful.

I encourage you to look for alternate plans to his visitation. You may find ( like I did) that they are more reliable than your x.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5014 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Kajem!

See the only reason I am even considering to take this route is because he is back to his shenanigans..he sent me this email last week and I am done and tired of falling back into that vicious cycle that we dance to so well.

All I am willing to consider NOW is resuming every other weekend and 1 day in week visitation which is what has been ordered from court for years now- WHICH he does not abide by.

He has another son from previous relationship that is not allowed around our kids due to serious concerns. So he will have to split his time to factor that in.

Having fiancee involved will hopefully protect the kids.

******
This is his latest email, I tried to keep things somewhat amicable between us but whenever I shut him out because i get tired of his games he does this crap.

He went and found himself a new bride, after a few weeks of meeting her. This fool has not paid a cent in child support and visitations have been far and few in between but reading this jewel of an email is something else.

He claims he is always working, but has no money to pay rent so he has to do maintenance work @ his apts to make up for rent. That is why he hasn't visited or called kids in months, unless I am in bind and force him to help. YET somehow, has time to romance and $$ for his new bride to be.


HIM: I'm going to get straight to the point. just so there is no miscommunication. I am actively seeing someone and we have become serious. we have discussed an eventual engagement. I think it is only fair to let you know. I would rather keep it friendsly between us, but know that I will not tolerate interference of any kind. I am under no obligation whatsoever to discuss details of my private life with you or anyone else so please do not ask. just know that the kids have not and will not be exposed to her until the probationary period has expired. (minimum of 6 months)
She understands and agrees. I have moved on and I wish you to do the same. as far as visitation goes and to give you equal opportunity. I would like to either go back to court for a 50/50 split or come to some arrangement which benefits the kids.

[This message edited by southsidecali at 8:18 PM, May 13th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 788 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Southside, I recognize that email. I replied to your thread down in Divorce.

Do not even for 1 second consider giving him any more than his currently ordered time. Especially if there are concerns with his older child being around yours.

Also, don't think anyone being around can protect your children if there is a serious issue with his other child. Sexual abuse happened to my dd. In my XH's home while he, the OW and her son were there.

Maybe this is not the type of issue you are seeing at all, but it's a triggery thing for me.

Your X has done nothing to warrant an increase in visitation. In fact, his lack of concern probably warrants a decrease.

If you are certain you want to open this door, I would probably allow a couple of dinner visits and then if he pushes for more, propose a "test overnight" visit. See how things go. Get in writing your concerns about the other child and have him state that he will not be at the home while your children are there.

If he wants more time, let him go to the judge and explain his lack of visitation up til now and his refusal to support his children.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7802 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
GreatRoleModel
♀ Member
Member # 36809
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please listen to wb2 she has given you great advice. I also wonder why you are trying so hard for him to have that relationship with the kids, that is not your job anymore. He alone is accountable for his relationship with the kids not you! Other people in your community can help you as Kajem suggested for alone time. Also what makes you think you will get money out of him now magically? Please listen to the wise people of this tribe.


BS (me)
XWS (him) NPD
DIVORCED!!!
It takes a village to deal with the village idiot!

Posts: 315 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: NC
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, May 13th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wont ever agree to 50/50.

The other child currently is not allowed around the kids when the rare visit takes place. The other child was the reason I redrew the boundary line because of the concerns and he so far has respected the no contact or visitation while other child is around. So far it has worked keeping the other child away since he refuses to get him counseling or any help to deal with the issues- I am hoping for long term but again my kids are little. I am working on teaching them about good/bad touch and all that in hopes that it helps.

I know having OW around is no guarantee that they will be safe or that they won't be exposed to more problems I need to worry about. BUT I am hoping that as a woman she can possibly care more about kids and make sure they are ok.

I suspect that the OW finding out or knowing about my concerns about the other child as well as the reason EX went looking for love because I didn't allow him or the other child around us- is what my EX doesn't want to find out.

He did what is typical, play victim- I keep him from kids and he is poor because I take his child support, and I suspect if OW finds out truth he is afraid she will leave him.

I honestly don't know what to do, I did go silent on the visitation and he hasn't pushed, which is what I expect. I don't care if she stays-she has her own reasons but if I can have her help me protect the kids I will tap that resource.

I feel like I am making a pact with the devil trying to negotiate my kids safety.

Will find out later this week about us meeting to discuss visitation/child support going forward in hopes this isn't dragged back to court and he goes and files all kinds of crap charges.

He is always reverts to threathening me because I have more to lose, he knows the courts will drag me around whether he has merit in his claims or not- he will do that and I honestly don't care to engage that way when I can easily call his bluff.


Posts: 788 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Southsidecali,

Are you married, divorced, single mom with NPD bio dad?

I'm asking because I would like to tailor my response to your situation.

I'm not in Cali, I assume that's your state. I don't know if it's still true, but it used to be that CS was calculated by a formula that incorporated how much time the non custodial parent spent with the children. 50/50 usually results in less money in CS than say 70/30.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5014 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm single :), our custody & cs are 3 yrs old and he made more money back then.

We have 50/50 but I'm primary and typical every other wknd and split on holidays, so it's already calculated at 15%. Even if it changed to 100% no visitation- with him working a minimum wage job I will be awarded barely half of what the current order is. Us going back to court benefits him, since he's looking to provide for the new fiancée of course he wants to try and change things.

He was fired last yr, unemployment for 6mos and finally got the min wage job in jan. I have been LUCKY(sarcasm) if I got $50 a month during his unemployment, since new job - not a cent!

I know it has nothing to do with kids, he is only looking out for him and his happily ever after.


Posts: 788 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone!
So many newbies. I need to get caught up on our thread. But I wanted to pop in and just say "Hi!" and let you all know I'm doing fine-n-dandy in NPD-free-land!

Been busy with horsies & horse shows. No babies this year, so no baby pics to show.

My tip for the day: Fastest way to NPD-free-land = NC!

((((hugs & love to tribe))))


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 8001 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, May 14th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Was hoping I'd see you in here by the by!
Love your horsie stories!
may they snort
Happy!
at you
Forever.
I know they will.
I know they do.
(((sadtoo)))
missyou
hey, dya catch the lady v sighting?

v - she has an exclusive, one-of-kind pic,
of a zebraduck, just so the noobs know, I'm putting it out there. She's important! Just like you scooby do.
a hell. I miss you both that's the truth.

((((noobs to tribe n tribe)))


Posts: 6534 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, May 15th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi guys,
As some of you know I come back and forth to this thread.

I wanted to share a book that I just LOVE....

It is called "When love is a lie"

It is the authors life with a narcissistic partner. She write her experiences and she also writes how to get out and what you need to do to protect yourself.
I love love the book..

She also stated in her book that she use to post on a forum called Lovefraud.com which helped her see what type of relationship she was in. She always knew something was just not quit right... Anyways, I wanted to share that with you all here. Hope it may help.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 19 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
False R. Still Lying.
Will be divorcing soon!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"!

Posts: 2661 | Registered: Aug 2011
GreatRoleModel
♀ Member
Member # 36809
Default  Posted: 3:56 AM, May 16th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK I have to share this with you all and would love your feedback/commentary. So as previously reported his highness wanted to meet live to share our perspectives on the kids and I replied with a short response of don't feel the need but feel free to email or reach out to the kids IC's. So this is the diatribe I received....I laughed out loud at first but I do wonder who is "we", either the OW and/or his narcissistic family members and/or his therapist he has fooled...can't argue with crazy.

Well, I have to admit this is the answer we expected. GRM, I think you have to take a step back and look at if together we could be doing more for the kids with some discussion (and thats not an email that takes a while to turn around) nor is it a therapist. I give you a "win" on passive aggressive manipulation if you want it ... there, you win! Now take a look at whats really distracting the kids given the facts of what has happened and ask if we really have the kids focused right, who they are emulating, the stress its causing them and if they are feeling the need to comply. This is your choice for some of the things you are sending me in email to have happen to the kids as together I'm very confident we could improve scores, have less stress (whether DD16 wants to talk with me or not), and be working a solution for some of these things as parents rather than you trying to single parent it and dropping me a "show me" email or two. Give it a thought ... you've nothing to lose by having a discussion. I just see this as really poor co-parenting which is too bad for the kids.
All the best,

The NC is really getting to him and not once has he ever communicated as to what he could do to make the situation better as always blame me and name call. CLASSIC and predictable! Fire away need a laugh.

[This message edited by GreatRoleModel at 3:58 AM, May 16th, 2014 (Friday)]


BS (me)
XWS (him) NPD
DIVORCED!!!
It takes a village to deal with the village idiot!

Posts: 315 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: NC
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 16th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GRM, what the actual fuck is he talking about???

This is a serious word salad going on here.

this is the answer we expected
We. Yes, he and the OW. Or maybe he consulted all those experts and authors he was quoting earlier.


Now take a look at whats really distracting the kids given the facts of what has happened
Let's see...Does he mean his affair? Or that he destroyed his family? or that he's such an ass that the kids really don't care to see him?


if we really have the kids focused right,
Again, who is this proverbial "we". GRM has the kids focused right.


who they are emulating, the stress its causing them and if they are feeling the need to comply
This is him saying, "Ha! I'm going to slip in an accusation of parental alienation, but I'm going to make it sound like I'm all concerened and stuff..."


This is your choice for some of the things you are sending me in email to have happen to the kids
Huh? And whatever it is it's all your fault, GRM.


as together I'm very confident we could improve scores, have less stress
Here is that "we" again. As though he would actually be able to do anything that would actually help his kids?? And there would be lots less stress if he would just fall off a cliff.


and be working a solution for some of these things as parents rather than you trying to single parent it
Wow. As if it was your choice to single parent? Who blew up the family and alienated his kids? Wait. Who is actually doing all the parenting?? Oh, yeah, it's GRM.


Give it a thought ... you've nothing to lose by having a discussion.
Right. Sure.

I just see this as really poor co-parenting which is too bad for the kids.

What does he see as really bad co-parenting? That you won't have a discussion with him in person? Or that you won't fix everything up for him?


Poor widdle baby. Do not reply. There are no questions to answer here. Crickets to him.


[This message edited by woundedby2 at 12:38 PM, May 16th (Friday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7802 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
GreatRoleModel
♀ Member
Member # 36809
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, May 16th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wb2 that was an awesome deconstruction of his "word salad" and the Whaaambulance image is great, had tears in my eyes! I have been laughing to myself all day with his reply. Also I think you were spot on with parent alienation dig.

All of my IRL support team loved the "we expected this" statement too...whatever. As my amazing brother pointed out to me today...Since when has he been co parenting? If he had been co parenting with you all of those years, he would then have a real relationship with the girls now. He does not have the foundation when things were good to fall back on when things became hard for him. Another friend reminded me that the girls and I were not following the script he had all laid out in his fantasy land mind for how the D was to go and for the everyone to be happy for him and his new family with OW and her kids. Oh well life goes on and the girls and I are going to have a relaxing weekend with plenty of laughs as always.

[This message edited by GreatRoleModel at 7:51 AM, May 17th, 2014 (Saturday)]


BS (me)
XWS (him) NPD
DIVORCED!!!
It takes a village to deal with the village idiot!

Posts: 315 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: NC
gma56
♀ Member
Member # 19595
Question  Posted: 3:06 PM, May 16th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Covert NPD ? Anyone have experience or advice.

I have another friend finally starting the divorce process. There was infidelity inthe marriage (him), no surprise.

STBX is no doubt a NPD. The dday was years ago but it never was a healthy relationship since that day. She stayed and STBWX has trashed her to friends, neighbors, and adult children. Needless to say there is no one there for support.

She's done the reading and has determined he is a covert NPD. They have been married for decades, there has been physical and severe emotional abuse. As with many NPDs, he has now thrown her away like trash but is very mean, after she started to figure out who she is really married to.

What Is A Covert Narcissist?

Absolutely undoubtedly the most damaging and severe form of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is covert narcissism. Covert narcissists can seem highly defensive and extremely hostile whilst masking beneath their facade a highly insecure sense of emotional vulnerability; a vulnerability they will do absolutely anything within their power to prevent being exposed.

Why Is Covert Narcissism So Bad?

The most damaging aspect of covert narcissism is the controlling and manipulative behavior that covert, or stealth, narcissists impose on the people closest to them. If in a relationship this is often solely their partner (though this is not always the case). They show a very real lack of empathy towards their partner and in many cases also towards their children, if they have any.

What Makes Covert Narcissism So Damaging?

In a typical case the only person who realizes that there is a problem is the person who is closest to the covert/stealth narcissist, who is usually unwillingly forced to suffer covert narcissistic abuse (very subtle emotional blackmail, mental abuse and psychological manipulation). Narcissists end up obscuring the truth and twisting literally every little detail back round onto the victim. They expertly mix the truth with a lie in order to distort the truth in their favour.

This abuse is so well hidden within the communication dynamics that the victim often doesn't pick up on it and is left scratching their head wondering 'is it me?'

When a victim of this type of abuse eventually begins to develop awareness of the manipulation it gradually dawns on them that they have already been ostracized long before they anticipated and the people that they turn to for help have already been made to believe it's them who is the problem - they've already been turned against the victim. The victim has been ostracized.

I have repeated many times everyday that NC=no new hurts but she has poked the bear many times because she becomes angry. We all understand but she has to go NC with her adult kids also because they believe all Dad's lies. This is very difficult for her.

Any words of wisdom or experience would greatly be appreciated. She can't expose herself right now on SI because everything would be used against her.

I wish the POS would fall over dead with his bad heart but he's still breathing. He is being extremely mean and abusive every chance she gives him. Again I stress NC.

FT was bad but he never called names, hit me, or belittled me until after dday. At least not to my face !

She has severe PTSD, depression and health problems. As most of us experienced, money is tight and the attorney she has is MIA. Another thing she has to deal with in the near future.
I don't know what I'm even asking but any help especially for maintaining NC would be great !
Thank-you in advance.
GMA


BW-Divorced
It's my life now, my choices, my mistakes to make and my victories to celebrate. His choices made me free of liars and betrayers in my life. That is priceless.

Posts: 20368 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Half way to where I want to be.
GreatRoleModel
♀ Member
Member # 36809
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, May 16th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My first quick thought is she needs to check with the local women's shelter for domestic violence and they can let her know what is available to her in the area and offer support. I wish her all the best and you are being a great friend with your continued support. (((hugs))) to your friend


BS (me)
XWS (him) NPD
DIVORCED!!!
It takes a village to deal with the village idiot!

Posts: 315 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: NC
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, May 16th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^^^^^^this was essential to my feeling empowered little by little.

I divorced a covert narc.

I got a lot of info and support from webofnarcissism website.
Anything by Melanie Tonia Evans.

Why does he do that? By Lundy Bancroft.

Divorce poison another good book.

Hugs for you too Gma it's hard to watch a friend go thru this.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5014 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
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