Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: IWantToSurvive (44222)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 13
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, May 16th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^^^^^^this was essential to my feeling empowered little by little.

I divorced a covert narc.

I got a lot of info and support from webofnarcissism website.
Anything by Melanie Tonia Evans.

Why does he do that? By Lundy Bancroft.

Divorce poison another good book.

Hugs for you too Gma it's hard to watch a friend go thru this.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4828 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
gma56
♀ Member
Member # 19595
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, May 16th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank-you GRM and Kajem !
It's been 4 yrs since I dealt with finding out FT was NPD. I forgot about Melanie !!!

She's hurt and angry. Starting to connect dots of old memories of abuse and NPDism. She gets angry and starts poking the bear. This isn't the time to piss him off when mediation and court are in the near future.

Divorcing a NPD is a nightmare but giving him more to be pissed off about only will hurt you. Their revenge can be dangerous.

She will be in a different living situation in next few weeks and will suggest the women's shelter. She has contacted one but in a different area years ago. Thank-you for the reminder.

Hugs to all and we can survive after being with a NPD.

[This message edited by gma56 at 10:24 PM, May 16th (Friday)]


BW-Divorced
It's my life now, my choices, my mistakes to make and my victories to celebrate. His choices made me free of liars and betrayers in my life. I lost my family but gained a second chance to be happy.

Posts: 20322 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Half way to where I want to be.
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, May 17th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Southsidecali,

I posted to you and it got lost!!!! I didn't see it so I'll try to post my thoughts again.

You want him to take the kids EOW and maybe a weeknight.

He's screwed up, and you hope the woman he's involved with will treat your kids well when they are there.

He has known this woman for a few weeks and is talking engagement.

Gently, IMHO any person talking marriage after a few weeks is a little off! She's contemplating marrying a narc. Narcs want all the a attention and lurve directed to them. I don't see how she can be effective in parenting your kids! I don't know if I would even expect her to care about them.

I understand the need for time for yourself, I really do. I think I would cautiously try every other weekend, while actively seeking alternate (healthier) arrangements for my kids.

He is broken, broken attracts broken, she is broken in some way to be with him. Hopefully not in a way that hurts your kids.

In my situation XH is the healthier NPD. NW is a vindictive bitch, spouting Christian values and family. Yet doesn't consider his family 'family' because they do not bow to queen of dysfunction, and he isn't allowed to have any opinion but hers.

I hope your situation is different than mine.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4828 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, May 18th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sigh, we finally had our meeting and what an eye opener. Yes it confirmed a lot of my suspicions apparently they met & started dating and its been 3mos and she seems codependent.

She is just as damaged as him, she shared tidbits of her past and sheís a real winner. She is divorced from a CHEATER!!! Her story is he left and throughout their history, he cheated on her repeatedly and the OW would call and tell her all kinds of stuff. She claims she finally ended things with her ex and that the OW put herself in between them and is the one that started handling the interactions between her and her ex.
There is child involved but DUN-Dun-Dun!!! He is 15 and they share 50-50 custody and apparently he spends a lot of time with dad. She works 2 jobs and is a self-made woman (hehe) and has been paying for everything(bought him clothes, pays for meals/has him driving her car) in their newfound love. She loves him, for who he is NOW, and up until us meeting didnít really know his past but now that she does- of course she sees the poor victim he is showing her to be.

She LOVES him and he is no longer alone and they will BOTH fight for their love against evil/aggressive/controlling ME I know after our conversation in which she discovered A LOT of things that a HEALTHY person would see as big red flags but no of course not her. She reiterated that she is not drama and that if knows or if I tell her I want him back that she will walk away, RIGHT!!! She kept asking and saying that she had several times asked him repeatedly if and why we didnít work on things and kept asking me if I would want to, etc. etc. I KNOW she is looking for reassurances to convince herself. She is not leaving him, she wants to fix him and with her, he will change for the better.

When she asked me, if after all that he did to me why would I continue sleeping with him, if there was all that hurt and what not and I told her.. well why donít you ask him why would he continue sleeping and doing all he does, did for me after supposedly hating me and having me destroy his life. Why did he continue doing that? He actually said he never loved me and that I was just a warm, wet hole, and convenient was the reason he stuck with me for 11 years. She had the audacity to ask me why did I tolerate being called a piece of meat?

I just responded, if after our 11 years together, bearing his children, along with everything else I did for him and all we had been through and the fact that the only reason he went looking for ďLOVEĒ was because I stopped sleeping with him and he refers to me in that manner- what can she expect? Maybe thatís something she needs to ask herself why sheís starting a relationship with someone like that. I know she wanted to talk more and ask me more but I just said, heís yours- I am not fighting for him, I am only here to clarify my kids visitation and how that is going to play out.
I told her, I wish you luck because youíre going to need it and left.

NOW my ex does not want to be around me alone, talk to me without her presence, he says he is trying to build trust and he enjoys her company thatís why he wants that boundary. He says she trusts him but itís me she doesnít trust and he wants her to trust him. Lmao OK- hope that works for you. I told him if he preferred I could just communicate with her directly to help that trust making effort, of course he doesnít want me talking to her.

I know it was a false sense of ego boost to me because at least I got to be romanced, to be wined & dined and to have a lot of his ďfirstĒ and all that accompanies our relationship-the good & bad. What is she getting at the start of her relationship?

Sad thing is she is trying to judge me for doing the same thing she did in her marriage, remain with a cheater and here she is doing something she claimed she would never do Ė and that is be with another cheater.

I have to move in a couple of weeks and we had already agreed he would help, well now I have another helper-her, he offered and I just might take them up on their offer.. Less work for me & save me money in having to pay for movers.
Sometimes there are some benefits to dealing with NPDs, when itís a stroke of their ego it can be used to benefit our kids.

[This message edited by southsidecali at 5:42 PM, May 18th (Sunday)]


Posts: 734 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
Whatdoido333
♀ Member
Member # 36597
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't post often but am in need of some help. Long story short --- my NPD WH has been having an EA for about 5 years with a co-worker. If they still are i think it has slowed down, but they are still in contact daily. That's not the current issue,but maybe it is the underlying issue.

This past weekend my teenager daughter had to be at an event. WH was going so I told him what time we needed to be there. We got there 8 minutes early. So instead of sitting and talking or whatever people do when they are early he went into a rampage about how he hates to waste time, that I lied to him about what time we needed to be there and that I didn't give him enough time to get his laptop. All this yelling for 8 minutes. After that, we went into the building and he started to pick apart everyone....from the person collecting tickets to the woman that dresses too young, to my daughters teacher that "can't teach for shit" and has "no idea what she is doing", to the building itself. Mind you this event was attended by hundreds of people and in its 15th year.

So when the event was over he started in with my daughter about how she did this wrong and that wrong while she was on stage and its OK to be different but when you are too different people don't think you are normal. She is a special needs child and acts about 12.

We were planning on going out right after the event but he didnt have his precious laptop. I asked him if we were going home to get his laptop and he said yes so my daughter didn't bother changing her clothes since we were going home.

Then we get into the car and she's sitting in the back sit. She has a gross habit of sticking her finger in her nose on occasion. So he saw this and started yelling at her....telling her this is why she gets bullied at school, etc. I didn't say anything, figured he was handling it pretty aggresively so no need for me to chime in. Then he's starts yelling at me, telling me that I didn't back him.

Then he starts going in the other direction of home and i said i thought we were going home and that she didnt change her clothes. He then starts screaming again and says why didn't she change her clothes. he was right there, he was busy telling her what she did wrong and he saw that she was in her original clothes.

It just got worse from there. Last night he told me i didn't validate him because I didnt yell at my daughter when he did. he said he doesnt need to "back me" when i discipline her but I need to verbally back him when he disciplines her but not always. I need to say something when its related to her "personal growth" but not school, etc, etc.

Does any of this make sense?

I think he's setting the stage for something. I was planning to take my daughter away for the long weekend to see a friend and he has absolutely no desire to go. He didn't want to go when we planned this 2 weeks ago (he never goes when we go see her friend but this is a holiday weekend).

The reason I am thinking that something picked up with the OW again is because when he was in the middle of his A, all he kept telling me was that i didn't validate him and that's why he had to go to another woman for advice.

Oh, he also told me that I was the cause of all my daughter's issues. He said that i raised her wrong all these years...She has a life-threatening on-going medical issue and neurological issues.....

If you reached this far, thanks for sticking it out. I just need some know if I am crazy or this is typical Narc behavior.


Posts: 116 | Registered: Aug 2012
bent44
♀ Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't post often, but could really use your input.
NPD XWS is asking for my " reccomendations for what (he) can do to improve (his) relationship with DD7"

I don't know what to say. He bailed on her in so many ways, but is trying to get better. He is in counseling, getting sober, any attending SA, or at least that is what I am being told. It has been 3.5 years since we separated. The first 2 years, he bailed on visits and was exactly what one would expect from an active NPD addict. For the last year, he has shown up to visits, and is paying CS. He engages with her pretty well, but of course there are still things that are not right.

I hate to say it, but I don't trust his motives in his question. I want to be a good person, but do not want to engage too much. Our communications are limited to daughter and finances via email...with one caveat. I supervise his visits with her. It was during yesterday's visit that he posed this question. I replied he could email me about it...and he did.

Don't know how to respond...any advice welcome!


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.

Update...he


Posts: 674 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bent- it really isn't your job to fix or improve the relationship between your ex and your children.

However, I struggle with trying to minimize the pain or help the relationship for my kids sakes. Don't know if that is worth it long term or just putting off the inevitable.

IF your previous relationship dynamic was you fixing things or spoon feeding him what to do, I would refrain and just let him know that you don't know what he should do or maybe he should ask his therapist for help?

It is very easy to get caught back up in the cycle because of our kids, but if he is working on making himself better- I would be tempted to just encourage him that you are glad he is looking to form a better relationship with your daughter.


Posts: 734 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NPD XWS is asking for my " reccomendations for what (he) can do to improve (his) relationship with DD7"

You were fired from that role. And, from my experience you DON'T want to get sucked into his attempt at triangulation because he will use it against you.

If I were you I would say, "Please go see a family therapist with DD." That way you are out of the picture and DD is getting her needs met.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2605 | Registered: Jan 2010
GreatRoleModel
♀ Member
Member # 36809
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ditto Chrysalis...not your job anymore. He can also ask his therapist for IC recommendations for him and your DD and/or books too.


BS (me)
XWS (him) NPD
DIVORCED!!!
It takes a village to deal with the village idiot!

Posts: 289 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: NC
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NPD XWS is asking for my " reccomendations for what (he) can do to improve (his) relationship with DD7"

She 7 years old, is she able to think of ways he can improve the relationship between them?

If she is, I would tell him to talk to her about ways he can be a better dad to her?

Hugs, it's so hard when they involve the kids.

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4828 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just need some know if I am crazy or this is typical Narc behavior.

YOU ARE NOT CRAZY!!!!!!!!

He is doing his best bat shit, crazy making, blame sifting, fucktard unicorn dance of projection onto you. Don't buy into his drama- you were right NOT to validate someone who is doing their best to keep you off balance, And hurt your DD. I'm glad you and she are going away for the weekend. I'm willing to bet life is more peaceful when he isn't around. Enjoy the peace.

Hugs,
K

Edited to add. I have no patience today

[This message edited by Kajem at 2:02 PM, May 19th (Monday)]


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4828 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Whatdoido333
♀ Member
Member # 36597
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kajem - thanks so much for the response......

Posts: 116 | Registered: Aug 2012
bent44
♀ Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your input! I definitely want to avoid engaging with him. I am hesitant to recommend they go to a counselor together...long story. I am digesting the wisdom of your responses...slowly

I realized there was a small error in my post. His email was,

"What do you recommend that I can do to improve my relationship with (DD7)?"

Please tell me if I am out of line, but the wording is weird. He has never asked me before, and has often treated me as a crappy parent, all the while thinking he was god of all things parenting as he grew up with lots of siblings and has raised a child before our daughter.

"Would you mind sharing any ideas you might have" or something along those lines would have been easier to swallow. He is assuming that I have things to share and that I am willing to share.

Nuances, granted, but there it is. Argh.

Perhaps I am just being overly sensitive, but the tone of the question is stuck in my craw. Years of NPD abuse, manipulation, and lies have left me questioning every little thing. Please feel free to 2*4 me if I am being paranoid. I know you can't make sense of crazy, and I will never understand his thought process, but I just feel like this is a setup more than an honest request for help.

It really sucks that this is what things have come to!


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.

Update...he


Posts: 674 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The one thing I have learned about NPDs is that as much as they project their faults onto us, they know we are better.

That is why they pick us, we play a part in the cycle with our own issues.

We often times mirror their own self loathing and they will never admit that it is their own shortcomings they see.

I honestly would just refer him back to his therapist, he is looking for kibbles, wanting you to doubt and get that warm fuzzy feeling about him changing for the better.

Crickets



Posts: 734 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he is looking for kibbles, wanting you to doubt and get that warm fuzzy feeling about him changing for the better.

Or, no matter what you say to him, he's going to counter with something like, "Well, I think it's time I start having DD by myself. I think she needs to spend more quality time with me. I would like to start taking her for (insert whatever degree of crazy applies: dinners on Wednesdays, overnights, every other week, all summer....)"

Be wary. They don't just ask us for advice. There is an ulterior motive here.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7779 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please tell me if I am out of line, but the wording is weird

Does he have a new GF? Every time FT gets a new GF I get strangely worded emails from her, passed off as his writing.

He thinks I am dumb and cannot recognize his writing style after 20 years. LOL


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2605 | Registered: Jan 2010
bent44
♀ Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please tell me if I am out of line, but the wording is weird

My sense is that his counselor may have guided him in this direction, but his interpretation may be a little off. The entitlement in the way it was written is pure XWS.

Am awaiting input from DD7s counselor, but am leaning towards something like...

I do not think it is my place to make reccomendations. I can say that trusted friends, professionals, and parenting books have all been invaluable resources in navigating these waters. I wish you all health moving forward.

Or something like that.

I want to write something a bit less polite

Argh, I deplore the energy drain of dealing with PD folks. Thank you all for your support. I realize this is such a minor thing compared to what so many are dealing with, and cannot tell you how much you guys are appreciated!



"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.

Update...he


Posts: 674 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t I just feel like this is a setup more than an honest request for help.

I agree, it's a set up!

If you recommend something it won't work, and his lack of a relationship will be your fault.

If you remain silent then his lack of a relationship will be your fault and if you ever need to go back to court, he can portray this exchange as alienation.

So

Answer him as ambiguously as possible.

I've found the parenting section at the library very helpful. Here are some links to websites that help me understand DD. Point him in directions for help but let him do the work. He won't, but it won't be your fault.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4828 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree, it's a set up!

If you recommend something it won't work, and his lack of a relationship will be your fault.

If you remain silent then his lack of a relationship will be your fault and if you ever need to go back to court, he can portray this exchange as alienation.

So

Answer him as ambiguously as possible.

THIS!


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2605 | Registered: Jan 2010
bent44
♀ Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all so much! Was able to chat with DD7s counselor this morning, and sent the following reply to XWS:

I reccomend that you speak with a counselor regarding boundaries and communication skills with (DD7).

Cut and dry. Simple.

Was going to add some pink fluffy words of encouragement, but did not.

Then, at counselors reccomendation, I journaled what I wanted to send. Journaling is such a blessing in all this. As are each of you!

I don't post often mostly because there is still so much anger in me, but please know I follow along and am sending strength to all. It is my hope to someday be able to pay it forward as so many of you are doing. You are appreciated!


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.

Update...he


Posts: 674 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.