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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 13
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 1:24 AM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nekorb,
I think you have described some of the feelings that many of us have felt and gone through. And still go through.

I also have this fear of him and I'm not sure why.

Trust this feeling. This is your very core, your gut, telling you to stay away, do not trust, be on the look out for, and do not engage. You may be fairly sure he wouldn't hurt you physically, but your gut may think otherwise. Your gut also knows how you clench up when the phone rings or the texts come in. Your gut knows he's not good for you.

I've been divorced from my XNPD for 4 years, and I still get anxious when I see his name or number on my caller ID or in my email inbox. I wish he no longer had this power over me, but I think at this point it's a PTSD sort of thing.

Once things settle down and you get to make your home your own, the peace will begin to settle in, and your true healing will begin. You are a strong woman, nekorb. You are going to be just fine.

(((Tribe)))


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7818 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nahh, I don't think you steamroll, (((nekorb)))
That's engaging, if you will, going at them.

I'm thinking of working out an analogy. We all know about the 180...I'm thinking of calling it the 90, the step-aside, like bullfighting...

The ultimate goal is NC, or the ultimate 180: "away from them forever", and we'll get there over time, but when we have to have interactions with them; with kids, soccer games, exchanges, in-house separations, etc. - we give them the red cape, like a matador.

If a bull is running at you, observe the matador, how little he really moves his body. It's all flourishing the red cape. The bull is happy, his horns got the cape! But the matador? He stepped aside. Did "the 90", and it didn't really take much effort, did it? It was just a small movement.
If he 180's the bull - he'll get gored, because he's just not as fast, and, he used all that energy running - all for naught!

Our 90, our red cape includes words, or vocal and facial expressions combined, that convince the bull we're engaged - when we're not. We're just 'stepping aside'...leaving the bull happy; horns get the cape (but not us). See?

Things like:
- mmmhmmm, intersting
- that's interesting
- huh, I'll need to think about that
and other empty phrases, give the impression that we're considering their thoughts, when in truth, inside, we know we're getting done with their fuckery.

The bull is happy. He got the empty red cape of fake involvement, he got engagement, supply.
You.
Step aside.
Do the 90.


Posts: 6617 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nekorb, Patricia Evans wrote a book called "Controlling People". I love her teddy bear analogy in relation to me and FT.

The TEDDY BEAR SYNDROME
Every abuser of other human beings is in a fundamental respect CHILDISH, because abusers have only a sense of POWER OVER and control of others, and have not matured into the self-actualization of PERSONAL POWER -- which always arises from within, with integrity, honesty, individual creativity, secure within oneself, and therefore in no need to have any POWER OVER others, but rather seeking to cooperate with the PERSONAL POWER of equally valued others, valued for their inherent human dignity.

So, in the Teddy Bear Syndrome, the little boy has found an initially "beloved"little toy/friend. Teddy is always there for him, she gives him much needed comfort, hugs, and she always understands him. He believes Teddy always knows his needs, his desires, and always silently approves as all good Teddies do. Teddy alwasy loves to sleep with him. And he never has to explain himself to Teddy, because Teddy must just "know" without words how to read his mind.

Evans says this is the general state of the mind of an abuser in the first flush of being "in love" -- and he may be all sweetness and light and full of (ultimately shallow) compliments for "his woman" (Teddy).

Ultimately, as all children do, after the first flush of excitement with a new toy, the little boy walks away to do other things, to play with other toys, or enjoy life by himself. He expects to come back and find Teddy right where he left her, and pick up right where everything left off. He didn't bother to think about her when he was gone, why would he? Teddy can read his mind anyway, and anticipate his every need when he comes home.

Well, as we all know, women are not really TEDDY BEARS. They are REAL. And inevitably, Teddy will "talk back." The first reaction may well be one of shock -- "What??!? Why is my Teddy Bear talking back to me?" He will then ignore her; as, of course, she's not REAL (in another book, Evans uses a different metaphor, the "Dream Woman," the impossible unreal but demanded ideal who lives in his head, and which he projects onto the woman in his world).

What happens when a real woman keeps insisting she is REAL? Anger, fury. "How dare she? She doesn't respect that only **I** am real and worthy of respect?" And he may even attempt to beat the stuffing out of Teddy to force her to submit. Why, his exploitation of her is just as natural and "right" as a child's natural "exploitation" of ANY toy.

Maybe this analogy will resonate with you too.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2683 | Registered: Jan 2010
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nekorb,

I looked at my interactions with XH as a series of itty bitty battles. If I got the kids and I away- I won. Sometimes I had to lose an itty bitty battle to win the one battle that mattered more. I was ok with that.

Eventually, I got to the point where I kept wanting him to parent my girls. He wanted to be Disney dad.
THEN:
If he wasn't going to parent, I wanted him to back me up in my parenting roll. He wanted to be their friend.
THEN
And on and on..... Can you see my expectations of him lowering? And my wanting/expecting him to be what he USED TO BE was actually hurting my kids. Because they were expecting him to be whom he used to be also. Talk about a mind fluck.

I finally got to the point in therapy where my therapist asked "How would parent if he had died?" And I thought about what I was doing and it all came down to "I expect XH to_____". When I decided to parent like he was dead-I stayed within guidelines, but his lack of parenting wasn't my problem, I was parenting enough for the kids and I.

My kids to this day, 11 years after divorce, complain XH thinks they are 12. Makes me think of Teddy on the shelf.

Nekorb, because YOU WANT him to understand he won't. He's like a 5yo you told to pick up his toys, he's mad at you , and you can't make him!!!!! Just picture a 5 yo standing defiantly with hands on hips. <<<<< that's your STBXh. There's no reasoning with that attitude no matter what age.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5160 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
southsidecali
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Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At times I forget the one true thing that is at the very core of our npd exs.... HURT people Hurt people.

It's that simple. I keep reminding myself that daily lately and makes me feel sorry for him and remind myself I just need to go NC.. Unfortunately I have little ones that he keeps putting in between, Monday I will be going to court and fixing that issue.

I am going to request back to supervised visitation through 3rd party - that hopefully will help our kids with a buffer and I truly don't have to deal with him, my other request if a move away order- with distance I am hoping out of sight out of mind.


Posts: 819 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I also have this fear of him and I'm not sure why.

^^^^^^^ this!!!!!

The only fear I didn't have was him physically hurting me. He knew as well as I dId that IF he EVER laid a hand on me - the police would be called and charges would be filed. Of course I never gave a thought to IF I never survived his attack. I gave plenty of thought to NW gunning me down. But not him -

Now that I think about it ^^^^ it's odd.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5160 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Quakingaspen
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Member # 41153
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((TRIBE)))

yes, nekorb, heed the fear.

I've been working on my grand exit from Prestone's La-La land, and kind of dragging my feet. These reasonable doubts crowding my mind, his crazy-making accusations ringing in my ears all created an emotional stew that had me paralyzed for a minute or two. Until I rechecked reality, and went back to my resources, and found some new ones.
Then I found this line:

"If you think your silence will send a malignant narcissist into deep thought about the relationship and their part in it, think again. The only thing the narcissist will be doing is stewing in hatred for you and pity for themselves."
(at: http://narcissistschild.blogspot.com/2012/04/narcissist-are-incapable-of.html)

I had to laugh out loud. That was exactly what I've been sort of hoping and expecting. And, exactly what was happening. Prestone is wallowing in a pretty toxic stew over there and I am finally free enough to just be glad he's keeping it there while I shuffle my little pieces further away.

jj - I like the 90.

Chrysalis - The Teddy Bear Syndrome does resonate.

And my wanting/expecting him to be what he USED TO BE was actually hurting my kids. Because they were expecting him to be whom he used to be also. Talk about a mind fluck.

Yes, K, I really get this. This weekend the little aspens and I were discussing Prestone and how it doesn't seem to have changed much that he's not living with us anymore. My littlest one said it's like we're not waiting for him to be a dad anymore. It struck my heart very hard when the three of them agreed that we're much happier not leaving that regular dad-shaped hole open for a man who doesn't want to fit into it. Mind fluck indeed.


I've seen enough.

WS-SA/NPD
D-Day: Too many in 17 years of marriage. LAST time 10/17/2013.


Posts: 122 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: A little bit closer to Reality
littlefoggy
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Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you confront if they do something to engage you?

My default is not to. Just ignore because STBX wants me to engage. But should I bring coparenting issues to him?

The issue is. He cut DD's hair. He did it to get to me. I know because he mentioned that she needed a haircut and I said she didn't. So he cut it.

So what do I do? Confront? And say this is what you do to get my attention and next weekend she comes back with a shaved head.

Or not confront and he finds a new and inventive way to fuck with me... I hope DD likes whatever tattoo he gets her.


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 497 | Registered: Nov 2013
phmh
♀ Member
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My two cents are not to confront.

Even though NPDs have brains that are wired differently, some basic principles of behavior modification apply to all living beings. ("Don't Shoot the Dog" is an easily-accessible book that describes many tactics -- focused on training animals, but also works for NPDs!)

Absolutely do not confront. He wants to get a rise out of you. And it may get worse before it gets better (extinction burst) -- but you need to starve him of kibbles AND, if possible, reward him for good behavior. (This may not be possible if he doesn't exhibit any good behavior.)

The key is finding out what he finds rewarding.

Also, remember that when dealing with a difficult situation, you have three choices:

1. Accept It
2. Change It
3. Be Miserable

When you're dealing with other people, change is frequently not an option as you can't change them. You can only change you and your environment. If you can't figure out a way to make changes to things you can control that ameliorates the situation, then you need to either Accept It or Be Miserable.

If you confront him about the haircut, and he truly is NPD, then he has further proof of a button he can press and piss you off. He knows there is no legal recourse, and nothing you can do to him. Ignore, ignore, ignore. In front of him, pretend you didn't even notice. (I know this is far easier said than done.)

If he is like most NPDs, he is pretty lazy, so when he finds out that this couldn't get a rise out of you, he'll likely try other things (extinction burst.) But, eventually, when he realizes that he can't get a rise out of you, he'll get lazy and move on to an easier host to suck their blood, joy, and happiness. But you have to be careful about this because if you do ever give him the reaction he's looking for, he knows that if he keeps going, eventually you will capitulate.

You really do have to change your perspective and your mindset to survive frequent contact with an NPD.

I know it's upsetting to you and I hope my tone comes off correctly in the written word but, at the end of the day, it's just hair. It will grow back. He didn't leave her alone in a hot car, or feed her something she's allergic to, or sell her into slavery. I realize that it's a pretty low bar, but if you can't come around to that mindset, you have a very long time ahead of you to Be Miserable.

You've got this!


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3371 | Registered: Dec 2011
littlefoggy
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Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have said "It is just hair" about 14 million times today.

I actually said it another dozen times after he said "She needs a haircut" and I realized his plan.

I don't respond to him at all. I just do my thing. He just implodes everything. He just tries to "win". He cut her hair so he "won". He wasn't at the drop off and made me drive all over the state so he "won". He didn't pay CS, so he "won".

He just keeps finding ways to maintain the control. This time it was her hair.

[This message edited by littlefoggy at 9:25 PM, June 9th (Monday)]


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 497 | Registered: Nov 2013
nekorb
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Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone. I know y'all understand my pain and frustration in great detail!!

My L is sending a letter today outlining what we would like to have in this immediate moment in exchange for something he has been asking for. He is also going to give them a deadline for the counter offer or we are filing.


Littlefoggy: Is the haircut cute? Does your daughter like it?

I'm just asking because you don't want to fall into your ex's pattern of arguing just to argue over a point of control. Kwim? Maybe it's a situation where you have to pick your battles vs allowing him to push your buttons about it?

Just a thought. (((Littlefoggy)))


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1838 | Registered: Aug 2013
littlefoggy
♀ Member
Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DD is 2. So she can't voice her opinions, yet.

She won't let me brush her hair. So, there is her opinion, I suppose.

She has like no hair. It is fine and I had just gotten it into a little ponytail and he cut it off.

Because I want to grow her hair long. He is going to keep cutting it off.


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 497 | Registered: Nov 2013
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He just keeps finding ways to maintain the control. This time it was her hair.

You've got it!!!

It really is about control.

Little Foggy, I am sorry. I know how bad I felt when my 3yo twins cut there hair as well as their 1 yo sister's hair. I spent the day crying. I feel for you.

She's 2, he's going to use her to get to you UNTIL she starts to have her own opinion. I think I would be working on her verbal skills - especially the word "no" with her little index finger pointed at a pic of him! A girl can dream, right?

Hugs, one day she won't be his pawn. Hoping that day comes quickly.

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5160 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
phmh
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Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 8:09 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's totally about control.

Just remember that even though he thinks he's won, he's really just a giant loser NPD.

Don't let him control you. It is just hair. Her personality is the same. The hair will grow back. Soon she'll be old enough to decide how she wants it to be.

You have at least 16 more years of dealing with this BS, so try to arrange your environment for success.

I don't know the story of why you were chasing him around the state, but what could you have done differently? (Like perhaps called the cops due to custodial interference?) Take every encounter with him as a learning experience to sharpen the tools at your disposal. Work on your poker face. Don't let him see your weaknesses. Keep everything super clinical and impersonal. It really sucks when you have to maintain contact with him, but I know you can do it!


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3371 | Registered: Dec 2011
littlefoggy
♀ Member
Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't responded to him cutting her hair, so today he sent me an email.

Paraphrasing


A number of issues:
-DD had fun this weekend. I took her to a festival. Despite the fact that they had a ton of activities for kids, I had her handing out pamphlets at my church's booth because I am God. I bought her a scooter and she fell off and (barely) skinned her knee which is my excuse for writing this paragraph. She fell because she is 2 and way too young for a scooter. She skinned her knee because she wasn't wearing the proper protective gear.

-I am unsure what version of "the court order" you keep on referring to. <- actual sentence.

Then he went on the word vomit on some other things including complaining that I sent him a bday party invite that happens on his weekend and "he doesn't know these people". Word

I just love how the first words I read were... "A number of issues: DD had fun this weekend." I mean. I want her to have fun. I guess I wouldn't really call it an issue.

No questions. No response. Chirp Chirp.


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 497 | Registered: Nov 2013
PhoenixRisen
Member
Member # 35912
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After two years bouncing between mom's and NPDs dad's house, my young child was talking about life at dad's, then out of the blue segwayed into asking me "Mom, why are you so nice?"
I think my child is starting to see NPD's behavior of manipulation and only acting as an interested parent if their of witnesses(supply).

ADVICE PLEASE??

I explained, in simplified terms, how people display love differently - using the five languages of love, I outlined: saying ILV, cuddling, gifting, spending time, & helping to show love. I gave some example of other people who love my child, but only show one language (e.g., teacher, or relative) but did not mention ex NPD. My child said "MOM! you do all five!"

... and I fell a little more in love with my child.

But do you think this will this help my child navigate life with an NPD parent? to realize that love EXISTS from npd in one form or another?

[This message edited by PhoenixRisen at 9:49 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 490 | Registered: Jun 2012
littlefoggy
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Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Awesome conversation with your child. Kids are so perceptive.

to realize that love EXISTS from npd in one form or another

I don't think this is true. They love only in that it serves them. And that isn't love. That is something else.

You would love your child no matter what. Big thing or little thing. If they disagreed with you on religion. If they skipped family dinner to go to a party. Would NPDX?

I don't think that is the approach I would take... says the girl who has no idea what approach to take.


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 497 | Registered: Nov 2013
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I explained, in simplified terms, how people display love differently - using the five languages of love, I outlined: saying ILV, cuddling, gifting, spending time, & helping to show love. I gave some example of other people who love my child, but only show one language (e.g., teacher, or relative) but did not mention ex NPD. My child said "MOM! you do all three!"

This ^^^^ is good. Never attribute qualities good or bad to the NPD - especially if they do not possess the quality. It sets your kid up for issues later. I kept telling Dd2 that he loved her in his own way. She was the child closest to him while he was here, when he left he played the reel in and toss game over and over. Her looking for his love resulted in DGD. Lesson learned!!! Never give them credit for something they do not possess.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5160 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
ThoughtIKnewYa
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Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

An old friend died over the weekend. I haven't seen her in years. The story was shady and there were prior pics of her messed up face... it was made light of back then- she fell into something.

But something happened and she died of a head injury. And her most recent H looks totally NPD, to me.

I'm going to have H look at the information I found today and see what he thinks. I told him I don't want to give my opinion, I want HIS, so I haven't said anything about any of it.

My gut has been screaming ever since I found out (last night).


Posts: 11685 | Registered: Mar 2008
bent44
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Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Talking to kiddos of an NPD parent is really tough. I find myself saying things like, "Daddy loves you with all of his heart" and omitting that he has very little heart to love with.

I think I posted the Valentines Day conversation I had with DD7. Her NPD dad had given her a very expensive necklace, and I had gotten her one as well, although not an expensive one. Her reaction was, "As long as I get chocolate, I don't really care". Of course, I had gotten her some chocolate! She followed her statement with, "Besides Mom, I think you love me more than Dad does".

Hence the line that started this post...Dad loves you with all of his heart.

Often, I think our little ones are more perceptive than we give them credit for. The best we can do is give them the tools to navigate this silly and wonderful life, and be there with chocolate!


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.

Update...he


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