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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 13
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has *anyone* here in the tribe negotiated a dissolution with their WS that we know of?

I did. To be brutally honest. I wish I didn't. Financially I got screwed.
Mentally, at the time I wasn't strong enough to deal with a divorce. I was on the cliff and I knew making him an enemy would damage me and seriously damage my kids. I had no support network during that time. I had a kid threatening suicide another depressed, and 2 others physically fighting. Those behaviors were not my kids. Coupled with the fact he was giving $500 month to live on while we negotiated the dissolution. I needed it done.

I didn't have the strength/support to fight him. He stole money while married, hid it away. Didn't report accounts all total I estimate he got away with $30k-40k. I was entitled to half. I found proof AFTER the divorce.

A year later he filed to reduce CS, after 3 rounds of mediation, coming to a last minute agreement, me signing, messengering the document to him (2 flucking hours away) for his signature and he refused! I told my lawyer the only response she was to give him/his attorney "see you in court'

In hindsight some things from my dissolution are a blessing. It's over! Other than when he retires which I suspect he will do something to fluck me over, like die before retirement.

Nekorb, he's leaving you NO choice but to file for divorce.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5114 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dallas g2g. Tribe event!!!! How cool would that be?

I second Kajem, as it is so meaningful to have faces to attach to names here on SI. I am an introvert and going to a g2g was so freaking scary for me. But I met Woundedby2, JJ, Lieshurt, Kajem from the tribe and it was just like coming home to dear friends.

I would love to meet more tribe too!


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2682 | Registered: Jan 2010
nekorb
♀ Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nekorb, he's leaving you NO choice but to file for divorce

It sure feels that way. This morning I got another email saying if I don't agree to liquidate all of our cash assets and divide immediately that he isn't going to agree to exclusive use.

Him getting himself and his stuff out of the marital home is in our DD's best interest. As it is now my great room is being used as a fucking storage facility. Everyone that comes to the house can hardly believe what they see and that he is ok with his kids living with that.

He clearly is NOT interested in doing what is best for DD. He's just trying to extort me at this point.


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1838 | Registered: Aug 2013
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is extortion!!!!

Turn it around IF it is in your best interests AND YOUR ATTORNEY AGREES.

When he removes the stuff and signs for exclusive use of the home- THEN you'll split cash assets.

Sometimes you have to speak their language back to them to get anything accomplished.

There is a special place in hell for theses assholes.

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5114 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
nekorb
♀ Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a special place in hell for theses assholes.

Kajem,

You have clearly forgotten that my WH is in just the right place and doing the right thing in his walk with God. He isnt going to hell.

Did you forget?

*I* am the heathen that's going to hell because I don't believe in the things he believes in and do what he thinks I should in terms of religion.

Silly you.


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1838 | Registered: Aug 2013
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, nekorb, I think it's just time to bite the bullet and have an attorney file for D. He's a lying, abusive, manipulator. You can't negotiate with that. There is still room for negotiation outside of the courtroom after an attorney is retained, but to try to D an NPD "peacefully" or "fairly" is not going to be possible.

You definitely don't want to be selling and liquidating assets until an attorney advises that it's ok to do so. The NPD is trying to gain some sort of advantage by trying to force the issue. You know that. To them the D process is just a big ole game. A game that they will do anything to win.

Sending hugs and strength.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7813 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Southsidecali,

Have you checked out DivorceCare? It's an excellent support group. I would urge you to investigate whether it's being offered near you. Their website is divorcecare.org.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7813 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
nekorb
♀ Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mentally, at the time I wasn't strong enough to deal with a divorce. I was on the cliff and I knew making him an enemy would damage me and seriously damage my kids.

Kajem- could you expand on that thought for me please? I want to make sure *i* can handle what's coming.

When you ask for temporary support, do you ask for a certain dollar amount or does the court pick a number or what?


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1838 | Registered: Aug 2013
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 12:32 AM, June 29th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wounded- I didn't know about that group but I definitely will.

I know I need to find a codep group to deal with my issues but I so need help with my kids.

I get the narcissist wound he can't get past me rejecting him, but we have been "done" over 3 yrs now and he's "engaged" to someone- what's with the anger/hate towards me?

I know he has serious issues and I can see I'm slowly changing for my kids. When we first split- I attributed out issues to only him and minimal issues with me, however, as I came to realiZe through other issues I had to face we have HUGE FOO issues that neither of us were aware caused our relationship to be so toxic.

I recognize and accept that but he doesn't, I have to change for my kids and because of his self sabotage ways he is throwing out kids away and I'm havin to deal with that all the while I'm trying to heal my FOO damage.

Me& son are in therapy and I been reading but it's super hard because I need the support so bad- I feel like I have no clue how to be a mom- am I doing right or manipulating situations- I question and doubt myself on everything as I am learning new coping skills.

At times I feel like going back and figuring coping with npd skills would be easier but I can't bring myself to sacrifice my happiness again.


Posts: 816 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 12:49 AM, June 29th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't believe this thread has filled up so quickly! I have fallen way behind...

Me& son are in therapy and I been reading but it's super hard because I need the support so bad- I feel like I have no clue how to be a mom- am I doing right or manipulating situations- I question and doubt myself on everything as I am learning new coping skills.

I second the Divorce Care group. It is religion based but very grounded in practical advice. In other words, if you are not Christian, my experience was that it shouldn't feel exclusionary.

As for "how to be a mom?" I think the really good ones spend a lot of time questioning what they are doing and what they could do or should do. The internal dialogue can be very healthy as long as it doesn't hinder you from acting.

I try to shoot for parenting with the greatest amount of patience I can muster, and then double it; a ton of humor; remembering that kids are people and therefore, I try to treat them how I would want to be treated as much as possible; remembering what I was like at that age; and with boundaries that are loose enough to allow for independence and error making. (No one learns if they don't screw up.)

Looking at that^ ??? That probably can be turned into pretty good advice to how we should treat OURSELVES...

cg is off to ponder how she treats herself most of the time and make improvements......


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5824 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 1:28 AM, June 29th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mentally, at the time I wasn't strong enough to deal with a divorce. I was on the cliff and I knew making him an enemy would damage me and seriously damage my kids.
Kajem- could you expand on that thought for me please? I want to make sure *i* can handle what's coming.

When you ask for temporary support, do you ask for a certain dollar amount or does the court pick a number or what?

I knew if I challenged him how it would go down. My XH would do everything in his power to erase me. He would do his best to have me declared an unfit mother, get custody, etc. make me non existent in my kids life. Punishment for standing up to him. When he left he paid the mortgage (under$600/month) and gave me $500 month to pay all the bills for a household of 5! He was living with his parents and they were bringing the kids and I groceries each week. I was visiting food banks, and local organizations for help paying utilities, which were almost all of the money he was giving me. He took home more than 10x what he was giving me. CS for 4 kids would have amounted to 1/2 his take home pay or $2,500. That was what he was doing with his parents knowing! I only imagined what he could do if I challenged him. And initially I did- I was the one who made arrangements for him to leave-I gave him no choice. As of 5 years ago he was still angry about me ing him to leave. Courts in my county were backed up 6 months for a trial. The scenario above couldn't continue that long. His parents gave me money to retain an attorney. It wasn't enough. I used her at her hourly rate to advise me.

I had a child who told me she wanted to kill herself, and my other kids were reacting to this in other ways that caused stress. He was coming into the house eating food I couldn't afford to do without, leaving his dish on the sink or table so I knew bed been there. I was divorced and he was remarried within 6 months of me telling him to leave. It was too much to fast. Had there been anything else I would have had a mental breakdown. I know it , he also knew it.

As I didn't go to trial initially. So I feel unqualified to answer about temporary support. I assume the judge would try to do what's equitable under the current circumstances. Ours was done by a formula we plugged in numbers and it was calculated for us.

You know in your worst fears just how bad he can get. Reach into that fear. Pull it out, dust it off and take all the precautions and escape routes you can muster.. It truly goes get better.

I hope this helps.

Southsidecali divorce care also offers a kids component. Your kids may get help with kidcare.

Hugs,
K

[This message edited by Kajem at 1:53 AM, June 29th (Sunday)]


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5114 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
luv2swim
♀ Member
Member # 13154
Default  Posted: 2:28 AM, June 29th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has *anyone* here in the tribe negotiated a dissolution with their WS that we know of?

Initially, I would say I did not negotiate a good dissolution (divorce) in mediation with NPD ex. However, ex, in that somewhat predictable NPD manner, hauled me back into court exactly a year after divorce (as soon as he could legally, don'tcha know!). This time I was a different person. I no longer hurt. On the second time around I used all the tactics for working with an NPD that I could. And... the results were pretty darned good.

The Number one tactic is to phrase the divorce "gimmee's" in a way that make the NPD look like the best person in the world, and yet you are getting what it is you desire. If possible, position NPD as the hero (or heroine) while also getting what you/your children need.

Number 2 tactic is to stay on focus and not be distracted by NPD BS, drama and threats. NPD are so good at finding our tender spots, and then sticking that hot knife in. I think this disables us, unless we are steeled, and become immune to their tactics.

Number 3 is to figure out what you will give up to make it seem to NPD this is something important. The key is "important" in his/her estimation yet not critical to your own future.

With all the pain, what I now refer to as the "shock and awe" of NPD bomb-drop, it was very difficult for me to be strategic, or calculating in my divorce round one. But thankfully, by the time EX took me back to court for the "redo" I was detached, and felt that he had his own stuff to work through, without me as his VICTIM! I can not emphasize this aspect enough. You can not be wearing the victim outfit and go through a dissolution.You need to first, totally detach. COMPLETELY! And then, you need to be calculating, and understand what it is the NPD feeds off of (e.g. "supply"), and within this, stay focused upon what is important to you/your children.

The tight rope act of giving supply, while also being committed to what you need, takes some practice. My experience is that you CAN NOT be distracted by the bull-dung of NPDisms. You can not be sucked in by their mind traps. Neither can you think about and desire who your beloved NPD used to be (if only in your own memory). In the moment you must be hyper focused. You must be watching out for you, your children (if applicable), and your own future with no distraction. BUT too, you have to be realistic.

And too, as you move forward with dissolution/divorce, do so with kindness and compassion for yourself, for your children, and to an extent, your NPD STBX.

[This message edited by luv2swim at 2:45 AM, June 29th (Sunday)]


Me: BS
Him: NPD WS
Married 24 years
incredible kids
D day: 2006 ... he left to live with OW.
Divorced: 2009
WS + OW: Married 2011

Posts: 351 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: US
nekorb
♀ Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, June 29th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Kajem and luv2swim.

Kajem: I really don't know how nasty he can get. Prior to his A, I've never really been the subject of meanness from him in an overt sense. Just a lot of covert emotional abuse that I accepted as normal behavior and allowed him to make me believe the problems all lie with me and my behavior/choices because I've been so freaking co-dependent!

But so far, I've seen how difficult he can be on the most minute subjects. Also, the complete lack of follow through on the good faith agreement. I think it would be difficult to move forward in any sort of constructive way with someone you can't rely on to do what they said they were going to do.

Idk. I just feel like if he was going to have to answer to a judge when he pulled this bullshit he might be less likely to pull the bullshit.

He also desperately does not want to pay for the cost of a divorce. So I can't decide if filing is going to piss him off into -"might as well spend it all then" mode or - "oh SHIT, let's get this settled out of court and save money" mode.

MOST of all though, is the problem of him continuing to threaten not to move out and give me exclusive use. The counselor has said in no uncertain terms that WH AND his belongings need to be out of the house to serve her best interests. She has said that at the very least DD needs to know an end date when there will be complete separation from the home. I was going to tell the kids that WH has said he will move out on date xyz while we are on vacation. I'm so glad I didn't since now he is threatening not to go!

Did I mention that I also received a directive from him about how I am to make all of his moving arrangements. Complete with details about when he wants things dropped off and picked up and to let him know what movers this company suggests? Please let him know?

The longer he is here the longer it is before everyone can start to move on. My oldest DD told me the other day, "don't take this the wrong way, but I can't wait to go back to school (college) and get away from all of this.".

I don't blame her one bit. We can barely walk through the main room of the first floor because WH has his shit that he's packing piled in there like a store room. No lie.

She continues to cite that getting together with him is just awkward. I think because he hasn't taken responsibility for the ending of the marriage and blowing their world all to shit. She has repeatedly stated that he has no remorse whatsoever.

Wow. This has gotten long. Sorry.

Luv2swim: I think I'm going to copy and paste your post into an email to my L and give him some insight. Thanks for sharing that.

Tribe in general: thanks for always being here, night or day! I'm also looking into DivorceCare as soon as I can!


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1838 | Registered: Aug 2013
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, June 29th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nekorb,

I didn't recognize my XH during the divorce process. His personality did a 180.

But

Somewhere deep down in my 'worst case scenario' thoughts I just knew he was capable of many horrific things.

Every single time I thought " he wouldn't stoop so low and do -_______. It would hurt the kids". EVERY SINGLE TIME HE WOULD DO IT!

It sucks. But what sucked more was the realization that I could do nothing about it.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5114 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, June 29th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Somewhere deep down in my 'worst case scenario' thoughts I just knew he was capable of many horrific things.

Every single time I thought " he wouldn't stoop so low and do -_______. It would hurt the kids". EVERY SINGLE TIME HE WOULD DO IT!

It sucks. But what sucked more was the realization that I could do nothing about it.

^^^This! All of it. My gut knew it could/would be very, very bad. I was terrified to file because of my gut. And then, he exceeded my expectations AND hurt the children.

Hang on, there's light on the other side of all this! I promise!


Posts: 1261 | Registered: Aug 2010
nekorb
♀ Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, June 29th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Compartmented - did you file anyway?

I'm trying really hard not to operate from a position of fear.

Trying really, really hard.


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1838 | Registered: Aug 2013
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, June 29th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I did file. We went through an awful divorce, but God got me through it. I also had a great therapist who understands both addicts and abusive people. It was hard. I don't think anybody has ever been that scared to file! I'll never forget sobbing on my attorney's couch when he was asking why I wouldn't let them help me.

My X is an attorney. I had seen how tenacious and obsessed he can get about things. I never wanted that attention focused on hurting me. I worked hard to never do anything to make him mad. Filing for divorce made him really mad! My attorney was great, which made him even More angry. I have walked through a dark valley...and it's lovely over here on the other side. I'm still uncovering more and more layers of things to heal from, but I'm SO much happier now than ever before.


Posts: 1261 | Registered: Aug 2010
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 3:38 AM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yikes- (((hugs))) everyone that travel along this path of dealing with NPD and have small children.

As to be expected from liars and cheaters, he had DS for visitation about 2 weeks ago. It had been arranged by the counselor and supposed to be bonding time between them and of course the "3montfiancee" showed up being the "recuer" because the deadbeat can't buy the kid clothes and evil ME didn't provide him with clothes.

Both of them promised she would not be involved when the kids were present or be around them and sure enough she is that desperate that she is trying to fix his life so he can LOOOVVEEEE her.

How sad and pathethic they both are. My DS of course felt sad that she was there and being a little kid of course wants to play nice.

I would rather she treat them well but the lack of boundries and the fact that they both thought it was OK to violate the agreement and with no regard to our DS feelings is typical of shity people.

I sent off an email to therapist and will call the courts to move up hearing to ask that she be not involved in visitation.


Posts: 816 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:56 AM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The tight rope act of giving supply, while also being committed to what you need, takes some practice.

@luv2swim - go ahead and "shamelessly bump" this for me - there might be ideas you can use here:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=533065

Chrys - you can make it to the gtg - YES YOU CAN!
(CAN? - you too!)
w2 - you're going to be there. I have spoken.
So let it be written. So let it be done.

nekorb

Did I mention that I also received a directive from him about how I am to make all of his moving arrangements. Complete with details about when he wants things dropped off and picked up and to let him know what movers this company suggests? Please let him know?

I'm evil. Because I can think of about a dozen ways to play with this, kwim?
(or, feck it, "don't be like me"? cuz I gave her practically everything - and she still bitched )

cg, I grin at practically everything you write

cg is off to ponder how she treats herself most of the time and make improvements

Srsly - the whole tribe is like the anti-N...
"Auntie"?
THAT's what I'm callin y'all from now on!
Buncha Aunties you are!

Posts: 6592 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 6:45 AM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Buncha Aunties you are!


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5114 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
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