She gets out of the shower. I tell her good news, we got our tax refund deposited.
Then I asked her, "have you contacted the other guy?"
She paused for a split second bc that threw her off guard.
I didn't let her answer, I just said, "I want a divorce."
She's like what, why? I then asked her if she contacted the other guy. And she told me yes.
I asked her when and what for. She told me a couple of weeks ago, and then on Friday from text.
I told her to give me her phone so I can see the text. I asked her where are the texts and she told me she deleted them.
I asked her what's the point of giving me the option of looking at the phone if she deletes them. She tells me she's sorry, but they were texts about bitcoin and dogecoin.
I was like uhhh wtf. She said she had a couple questions about them and needed him to answer it.
They were strictly a quick back and forth, ontopic question and answers.
Then I asked if she searched for his FB on Valentines day. She tells me she doesn't remember. I tell her don't bother, bc I know she did. So she starts thinking about it. I asked her why. She thinks for several minutes without saying anything. I asked her if she loves him. She says no right away. So I asked her, if she wanted to see his picture bc she misses him. And she said, that sounds right.
I asked if she's seen him or talked to him, and she tells me no.
We were suppose to hang out today and tomorrow. I told her I didn't want to see her today.
I tell her, she broke the 0 contact rule. There's no simple way around it. You knew what the rules were in place. How did you try to justify this? Did you not think about the marriage? Did you not think about me? Did you not think about our rules?
I told her, how I was pissed the first time she claimed to search for his FB when she was afraid for his family. I told her, even searching is contact and she agreed to that.
How the fuck would I feel if she texted him?!?!?! UGH!
So mad. So sad.
She tells me, she needs help. I ask her, help with what?
She tells me, for what happened in December. I told her, obviously, but that doesn't explain this situation at the moment. She tells me she's weak, but she didn't contact him bc she wanted him. She claims it was strictly about the bitcoin and dogemine or whatever bullshit that is.
I tell her, to get rid of that shit. I don't want any association with it.
I ask her why does she keep hurting me. Why does she keep breaking the little trust she's trying to gain. I ask if she wants to be with him. She tells me no, she wants to be with me.
I tell her, I don't understand her reasoning if she wants to make this work. She's shooting herself in the foot.
I tell her how she was sabotaging our "rebuilding" after our talk on Dec 11, with an ongoing affair. How she's now sabotaging what little hope she has.
I tell her, I hope she has enough self-respect, common decency, and enough respect left for me, if anything did happen again, she would tell me. But told her how it was so disrespectful for having an affair, and not using protection all the time.
I also asked if she's told her mom yet. She tells me no, but she's been thinking about it everyday, not sure how to tell her.
I cried a little from being hurt again.
As we're leaving, she hugs me, kisses me and tell me she loves me, but I dont even reciprocate. I just said, "dont tell me, show me" and walked away.
I told her, I know for a fact, if she saw him again, I'm done.
But now she's in a gray area where I'm not 100% sure which way to go.
I'm going to try and recover those text to see if they are what she says.
Now, I'm at my place, wondering what to do. I have my divorce papers sitting next to me.
You are doing really great tho... You have told her the rules... the consequences.... told her what you need.... and now it is up to her to prove to you she wants the relationship with you.
Keep the divorce papers handy... does she know you have them? does she realize that this is literally her last chance? Sometimes filling them out and filing is the key to waking them up if nothing else works.
I went into her work and asked for her phone and keys to her apartment to get her computer. She handed them to me without hesitation.
I recovered some of the deleted messages. I tell her, she can come back my place to pick up her phone and computer.
I went out and did some errands and help clear my mind a bit. I was running on maybe 3 hrs of sleep bc of this drama.
Anyways, I get home and eat first, without saying a thing to her. She asks me if we can talk.
So here we go.
I asked her, if she wants to revise what she told me the texts were about, she tells me no.
Well, I start grilling her about the old texts between them and her friends. I don't really care about the old text, bc those were done, but it was nice to see exactly what was said.
I questioned her about specifics of them to see if they are accurate. Was close enough I guess.
I then got her to confess to me, she did tell the OM, "I miss you" at the end of the last text. Yep, strictly business I see, nothing personal at all.
I tell her how she broke 4 of our guideline rules that we created.
1, not thinking about our marriage 1st.
2, breaking NC.
3, not being honest.
4, WW(J/B) Do in this situation?
I asked, if she even though about them. She tells me yes, she did, but she still did it anyways. And she tells me, she doesn't understand why she does it.
She thinks about him and wants to text him sometimes. I ask if she loves him, she tells me no. I ask, if she wants to be with him, she tells me no. She loves me and wants to be with only me.
I tell her, it sounds like she's infatuated with him. I tell her, I don't know how she got so hooked onto him, so fast.
She cries and tells me, she knows something is wrong with her. She tells me, she think she's bi-polar. I tell her, I've met bi-polar people and she's not it. She tells me there's different types of it or something like that.
Anyways, she says she needs help to understand why she does things like this. That's why she's going to her doctor tomorrow to get an IC referral.
I was pretty much stone cold during this session. I'm at my breaking point of this marriage. The slightly breeze will push me over and sign the papers.
- Free you from her lying forever
- Scare the fog out of her brain when she realizes she's actually losing you
If you keep threatening divorce but not following through, she's getting the message that you're not serious about wanting her respect or effort at any cost.
She's not NC. This is a fact. Your report of her responses suggest that she will lie through her teeth unless you have evidence, and even then she will twist it as much as possible. I say sign the papers and submit them. I know it's scary, but she doesn't care how much this is hurting you. You don't want to be married to someone like that.
For last year's words belong to last year's language
And next year's words await another voice.
And to make an end is to make a beginning. - T.S. Eliot
I responded to your post in General:
Simply-- It is impossible to reconcile a marriage when you WW continues to LIE to you; and as long as your WW continues to break CONTACT with the OM.
You can not reconcile this marriage on your own - with a WW who LIES to you; and who continues her involvement in an adulterous affair.
I'm sorry for the pain and turmoil you're going through - but you marriage is NOT in reconciliation at this point.
I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.
Decide what you want and work on making it happen. I haven't decided yet and am still in limbo. Not a great place for anyone,
But I agree Dare2Trust, with what I found out, we are nowhere near R.
She broke a rule of R, were consequences not set up?
However, I only learned of this breach 3 months later....when my wife's fog started to lift. It came out in as full a confession as I ever got from my wife. I did not D.
It sounds as if your wife is fresh from her A...gently, it may never have stopped. She sure is justifying her actions by blaming other things (bi-polar) and trying to pass off her burdens on you (confessing to you she needs help but NOT finding a therapist on her own).
Simply and crudely put.....she is aware of shit in the area....but not owning that it is her shit. "The devil made me do it" excuse comes to mind.
Look....early into my journey the following was witnessed by me and is relevant to your experience.
--wife crying to me she is sooo lost and can't help herself.
--wife's email to a friend listing all MY flaws that simply limited our M....."no ones fault, just not meant to be together" sort of reading vibe.
--strong profession to me that she NEVER ran me down with her fAP
Actions that SCREAM "not my fault", "I am not responsible for my actions" "Look over there!".
All expressed with strong passionate emotion.....all aimed at avoiding responsibility.
It is a throw back to the escapism that adultery is. WS are not so much running to their AP as they are running from themselves.
I am sorry for your pain. I remember that drug-addict like state my wife existed in for months. It is truly dreadful.
PM if you care to.
Keep the faith.....19 months out and my wife owns her shit now.
God be with us all.
[This message edited by blakesteele at 6:38 AM, February 20th (Thursday)]
BPD diagnosis ? Bullshit. She is still justifying, lying and blameshifting (blaming her mental health). No remorse there. Remorse would have stopped her. While it is easy to believe she is messed up in her head that does not excuse what she did.
How much more pain are you going to let her inflict on you. Stop being a victim, regain your strength and file. How many more chances can your sanity take ?
Look my W was fine and kind of wishy washy until the day she opened a bill from my attorney. Even though I told her I was talking to an attorney. She never believed me until right then.
Shortly after, she found her motivation right quick.
You can always stop the D process later if you want to. Some people don't understand anything except black and white, smack you upside the head consequences.
DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.
Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.
Anyways, I told her how I've been thinking about divorce every single day since Weds, when I discovered she broke NC. Even more than the actual affair at the moment. Of course, she starts crying. She told me how just yesterday, she was telling her bff, how much she wanted to make it work.
Now she tells me she thinks she has borderline personality disorder. She does have a 2nd IC meeting this afternoon.
Oh, she also told her mom, she can tell her dad.
[This message edited by UneasyFeelings at 9:19 AM, February 26th (Wednesday)]
You have 3 people in your marriage.
Bitch boots, put em on and be strong. Filing for D will not end your marriage. Continued lies and an OM WILL!
I asked her if she's contacted him in any shape or form since, and she tells me no. I asked how about what I was ready about her body language on Fri, but she tells me there was nothing wrong at all. She said she actually had a good day. I'm not 100% convinced though.
Anyways , I asked her last night if she wants to contact the OM, and she tells me no, not at all. But I tell her how the last text was only a little over a week ago. I also reminded her if I catch her in another lie, or there's any form on contact, that's it. I want to emphasize this as much as possible bc I am at my limit.
I know she's been telling me exactly where she's going. When she's at work and coming home and such. She did this on her own at the very beginning. But her phone and online shit is harder to keep track of.
I don't have divorce papers but a post nup is still in process. I think i am giving her as much time as she needs for reality to set in. The reality is simply that i am acting on faith but there is a limit to my patience. I am trying to show her support and that i will be there standing next to her. However, it sometimes seems that my support is showing her a weakness.
We are still renewing but as i stated before. There is one thing that must be done before that happens.Renewing is supposed to happen at years end and i really hope it does. However, that will mainly depend on her.
You're no where near R.
Former 80s Icon wishful thinking
Coma, I'm running out of patience. I've been fighting for us single handily for the past 2 months. For the first month, I didn't even know there was an opponent. After finding out, she told me blah blah blah, it took almost 3-4 weeks before she took action on her own. But she had plenty of time to do other shit, but "fixing" the marriage was on the back burner.
Speaking of which, talking to her last night, she admitted she did contact him a 3rd time. Actually, it was more like the "1st" time, since NC. It was a couple of days after the Superbowl. I just KNEW something was going to happen. I asked if there was any contact soon afterwards, but of course, she said no....
She said she didn't even remember it until I was questioning her last night and mentioned the Superbowl.
So she's broken NC 3 times to my knowledge. Today is 1 week, since I found out about the original violations. She's suppose to cook us dinner tonight. But the more I think about it, the more angry and frustrated I get.
SamanthaBaker, I'm starting to believe my WW is a hypochondriac . I mean, she has always had the tendency to say she has something before, so it was always bordlineish.
I did tell her last night how she's back to square 1.
I tell her, how it's bullshit that I have to "fight" for her, even though she chose to marry me. She tells me no, that's not how it is. She's fighting to win me over. I tell her how that doesn't work if she can't be honest with me or herself. And going to IC and lying, wont do any good either.
[This message edited by UneasyFeelings at 3:30 PM, February 26th (Wednesday)]
From what you're posting, you're the one doing the talking, you're the one doing the heavy lifting.
She's been caught, you put rules for reconciliation to take place, what does she do, not only breaks them but lies about the content as well.
Communication is communication and what she did was keep the channels open. They haven't said goodbye to each other. Heck she even told him she missed him. So what are her consequences for her actions? More of you telling her what she should do, how she should be acting. You are leading her towards reconciliation but her heart isn't in it, why? She's not afraid to lose you because she cheated and you're still there. She broke NC and you're still there.
If you're a patient man, then by all means wait for her and the fog to lift. But it will never lift if she's still in contact with OM and still able to communicate with him. She has to want to not talk to him.
by the way, the internet is a wonderful thing..she can look up bitcoin questions there
Instead of working to put back the excitement and passion the WS wastes time and BS goodwill dreaming about the lost luuvv and what could have been. Human nature I suppose, but its humiliating to realize that we're so damn monotonous and tiresome. Not at all special, like the OP for example.
This just really irks me to read, and it really drives home just how damn hard reconciliation can be with a foggy-headed Wayward.
What I hate most about it is that Waywards so often can't fully appreciate what an incredible gift the offer of Forgiveness really is.
A Betrayed Spouse has every right and countless reasons to run like Hell from their Wayward Spouse. Adultery often robs the Betrayed of nearly everything they have-- their sense of self-worth, their capacity to trust, their happy memories and even their soundness of mind.
A Betrayed Spouse who offers Forgiveness to the person who stole so much from them so recklessly and selfishly is giving the only things they have left-- Grace and Mercy. When we do this, we hope so very badly the Wayward sees it as a priceless gift, because WE know it cost us everything. Everything.
Yet the worth of our Forgiveness is not, finally, what it costs us. Its worth is determined by the Wayward who receives it. For the lucky few, this gift is prized by the Wayward beyond even its cost to us. It is sacred, it is priceless, it is something so beautiful and valuable it becomes the very foundation of a new marriage.
Yet more often it seems, like so many things precious to us, that the gift we offer our Waywards is taken for granted and treated as carelessly as the marriage vows and our trust. It is worth less than even a chance to glimpse an Affair Partner's FB page, worth less than a secret chance to tell the AP "I miss you" or some other trivial bullshit.
I hardly know enough to counsel a response. But I do know this. You gave her a priceless gift- you really, really did- and I'm really sorry she's too selfish to know it.
“No, Lord,” she said.
And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”
Then I tell her how she hasn't told me why she text the OM, so I've formed my own theory. She was testing the waters to see how,he would respond to the I miss you text, to see if she could reignite their relationship. She tells me that's not it at all. I tell her how thats the only rational and logical answer to me. I tell her if our goal is to make our marriage work, those actions do not help, but hinder the repair. She tells me about her block exercises when she thinks of the OM. And tells me her goal is to make this marriage work. That's all she wants.
She tells me how the therapist suggests we see a MC, but I refuted with telling her that's worthless if she continues to lie to me.
Her therapist told her, how to move forward. I can't remember the exact words my WW used, but it irked me a bit.
We pull up into the parking lot, and she tells me how her therapist told her, infidelity are usually caused by something missing. I responded with how that's crap and I'm starting to not like this therapist. At first, it sounded like the therapist is making an excuse or justification for infidelity, but then I thought about it for a few seconds, and maybe I'm receiving it slightly out of context, I don't know, I wasn't there.
The WW now tells me how she feels shitty now, when she was feeling much better right after therapy. She tells me she hates the way I say things. I guess it's short, direct to the point. No sugar coating.
Anyways, while walking through the store, she tells me how she's trying so hard...... I'm like what??!!?
I tell her how it hasn't felt like she's been trying until this past weekend. And she was still lying to me just a week ago. How is that trying. She says she gets my point. Ugh. I mean, if I didn't find out about the NC violation, I would have really believed she was trying. But knowing about that just destroys her credibility. How does a person not see this. Fuck I'm getting all worked up trying to rationalize it. Ugh. Suppose to be sleeping.
So we continue shopping and I hold her and tell her, I love her follow by a kiss. She reciprocates. I tell her, I will be a little more patient and give her a little faith, but don't lie to me again and break NC, since she's "trying".
Anyways, we took too long and just got some sandwiches to go instead.
Tren0R201, I agree. I've clearly taken the lead with this situation. Is it bc I'm the man? I'm going to assume it has something to do with biology. She just doesn't "take charge" per say. She wants things done for her.
I've been patient long enough. At the end of my ropes. I'm just waiting for her to fuck up I guess. She knows it, she fears it. But if she can't do it, it wasn't meant to be. I will know,at least I tried and won't have any regrets.
[This message edited by UneasyFeelings at 7:22 AM, February 27th (Thursday)]