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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Earning the BS back
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Once I realized he was having the affair I was a bat-shit-crazy, bitch-boots wearing, hefty bag stuffing, pissed off woman.

If you wanted to be with me you had better prove it, fix it and make it worth it to me.

I think the total head spin makes a wayward know you won't accept the bullshit any longer.

If you want an A or your AP have at it, but you won't drag me through the mud with you.

YES!!!!!! This is exactly how I feel!!!! I wish there was a high-five emoticon just for this!!!!


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree, more or less.

For me, there's a weird dynamic to it....I guess I want my wife to want the marriage (and me, too!), but whenever she gets all-

"What was I thinking?"
"Oh, I'm so lucky you're my husband."
"You're my everything"

....part of me wants to just tell her to f*** off with that noise. Don't do me any favors, any lavish praises.

I have not really changed from who I was prior to and during the affair, with all the same traits she used to justify her cheating and unhappiness. I still have the same job. I still forget to do the same stuff. I still repeat myself.

Oh, NOW I'm your everything?
NOW you couldn't imagine life without us?
NOW you're so happy to be with me?

Where were all these realizations 14 months ago when you were effing my friend?

[This message edited by FacePunched at 3:50 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


I have a competition in me.

Posts: 2251 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Shattering" is a process that needs to take place within any BS if true R is to be offered. "Remorse and a desire to pay repentence" is what a WS needs to have to put the "f" in front of the "WS" and R the marriage.

I sooo wish I had hefty bagged upon my first DD....so what you say makes perfect sense. I held onto the false hope that somehow my orignal M had not been slaughterd by my wife, that my family was not under attack and being harmed by my wifes choices.

Caution to those who read this thread and associate your advice with the healthy 180.

180 is NOT a manipulation tool...it is a tool that helps you "shatter" effectively. It helps the BS fully embrace that they will be fine without their WS. It helps them break free from getting stuck on "wishing for a better past". It is about self discovery and self reliance....it is not about beating the WS into a corner.

Wert....always like your posts. This post is about "righteous anger"....demanding that the abuse stop and that retribution be paid for the damages incurred. Absolutely healthy and is in line with all that I believe.

Could have used righteous anger earlier then I did....but I am traveling my journey as best as I can.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 4:00 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Simple
♀ Member
Member # 18814
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you've got something there. True-blue REAL consequence and a preview of what life would be without BS caring one whit about WS.

There's a fine line though of a BS dragging it out... and a WS who can't seem to figure themselves out and just keeps doing whatever BS tells them.


Love is a choice.

True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.

Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.


Posts: 927 | Registered: Mar 2008
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think my husband ever stopped dancing. Not because he had to but once the positives started to show we were both willing to dance, if that makes sense?

Totally the same thing here. The frantic speed of the dance changed, and we became willing to dance together. More tango, less jitterbug. (just to totally destroy this metaphor lol)


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6643 | Registered: Jan 2011
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

180 is NOT a manipulation tool...it is a tool that helps you "shatter" effectively. It helps the BS fully embrace that they will be fine without their WS. It helps them break free from getting stuck on "wishing for a better past". It is about self discovery and self reliance....it is not about beating the WS into a corner.

Where's that hand-clapping gif when you need it?


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 5-year-old daughter. Baby Green 2.0 expected June 2015!!!!!!!!!

Posts: 6906 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
TrulySad
♀ Member
Member # 39652
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I completely agree. And today of all days, this needs to be drilled into my WBF's mindset.

Usually I'm outspoken and feel pretty damn strong. Yesterday was the one yr mark of the first big DD. I thought "no big deal". Today, I'm just exhausted and sad by all this shit, and dont have the energy to post a new topic about this, and feel the need to defend my position on it. So thank you.

I agree 10000%. They sunk to such disgusting levels and crushed us with their cheating. If they honestly want us back....I want to see how far they will go.


Me: Sad, but I will survive

True Love: What I have for my beautiful children.


Posts: 481 | Registered: Jun 2013
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Could have used righteous anger earlier then I did....but I am traveling my journey as best as I can.
No truer words, my friend.
I have done a ton of work in the area of beating myself up for 'mis-handling' the situation.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 4:08 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


I have a competition in me.

Posts: 2251 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I - perhaps we - need to draw a solid line here.

IMO, the WS needs to show unequivocal and consistent commitment to R in words, thoughts, and actions. That usually means bending over backwards to meet the BS's requirements.

I think that's a lot different from being willing to be the BS's puppet.

The WS needs to be willing to beg because she is totally committed to R, but the WS needs to maintain her self-respect, or she at least needs to be committed to regaining her self-respect.

If you're familiar with the great German movie The Blue Angel, I don't want my W to play Emil Jannings' part. I want to R only with a real autonomous person, not with someone who will debase herself to avoid D. I want a partner, not a slave.

I think that's what wert means, but I just want it out there explicitly.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10570 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Tickingtock
♀ Member
Member # 41411
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(ETA: Upon further reflection I see that Charlie Sheen may not have been the best GIF choice )

[This message edited by Tickingtock at 7:24 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


Me: 31, exBGF, now married

Posts: 226 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: West Coast, USA
tryingeverything
♀ New Member
Member # 42355
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, this topic is so relevant to me right now that I must post for the first time! This is right where I am. My husband told me about his affair a year ago (it was over for 7 months at that time) and we have been on a nightmare of a roller coaster ever since.

He was so wonderful the first 2 months and really helped me through those dark, dark days. But then he became impatient with my many questions about the affair. And he would 'jump in his hole' when we talked about it - that's how I describe his becoming more concerned with his own shame than my sadness.

This frustrated me to no end as I had soooo much more healing to do and he wasn't emotionally there for me. But I spent the next 10 months fighting for us every day. I was consumed with recovering from the hurt of the affair and fixing the problems in our marriage. But it seemed the more I tried, the less confident he became in the future of our marriage. He would say he doubts he'll ever make me happy enough, that he'll keep trying but he doesn't have much faith in us, etc. This would drive me CRAZY and I would try so hard to change his negative mindset.

But then, I just stopped. Just last week I finally realized I am never going to change his negative worldview. This is the man I married 21 years ago. I am here because our daughter needs us to be together. And I am going to continue to work on me.

I am married on paper. I don't wear my rings. I will put them on when he earns me back. I was a needy mess last year. Unfortunately he didn't rise to the occasion and help fix what he broke. Maybe now he will.

Any thoughts????

Me 51 BS
Him 50 WS
DDay 2-12-13


Me: BW 51
Him: WH 51
DDay: 2/12/13
Married 21 years
DD 15

Posts: 17 | Registered: Feb 2014
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 5:56 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((tryingeverything)))

Welcome. Post often...it aides in feeling your feelings. And you need to feel to heal.

I'm sorry your husbands support has waned over time. My experience is inversely different than yours. Wife had zero remorse for months after my first DD....slowly found it over time.

19 months out now.....doing better.

Are you in counseling? Real life friend to talk to? This burden is larger than any one person was meant to carry. While your husband has a strin role in healing the pain he caused you, There are others who can and will help. It is through these "others" that much support has been found by me.

God be with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't do me any favors, any lavish praises.

This reminded me of a process that I think happens. Early on, the lavish praises are used to give and receive ego kibbles and smooth things over quickly. They were valuable currency in the affair and worked like a charm with AP so why shouldn't it work on the BS. It's the first tool used to dig themselves out of this hole they created. And maybe it does work for a bit, until the BS's anger stage comes, and then it's clear that compliments and praises mean very little and aren't going to cut it.

Then when they realize the BS is over all this, finished with them, and ready to walk, remorse hits them and the praises become more genuine and heartfelt. That's what I saw anyway. And those deeply felt praises can be more accepted once the BS's anger subsides.

I want to R only with a real autonomous person, not with someone who will debase herself to avoid D. I want a partner, not a slave.

Absolutely. A lack of autonomy and a perceived power struggle or need for power is often what gets a WS into an affair in the first place.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that's a lot different from being willing to be the BS's puppet.

Yep that is what I am driving at and I appreciate the clarification. I never wanted a puppet. And this post is not about punishment. I think a person can relinquish a certain amount of power and authority in a relationship without selling out completely. I think that line is very different for every couple and person.

I would add that I was one of those that was lost and did not do this right away after d-day. I had no idea what hit me. I didn't start doing it until weeks after I discovered. I wanted to post this because I think the quicker that transfer of power can happen the better off the BS is. When a BS lingers in "I love her so much" that I think is dangerous.

I think I sound hard nosed with some of the stuff I wrote but that is with intent. It's it not about love. It is about breaking the pretty little fake world the WS has created for themselves and redefining how things are going to be. I so wish I would have done that sooner...but that is a different show on Oprah. :)

take care...

take care...

[This message edited by wert at 7:14 AM, February 20th (Thursday)]



Posts: 1441 | Registered: Jan 2012
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This reminded me of a process that I think happens. Early on, the lavish praises are used to give and receive ego kibbles and smooth things over quickly. They were valuable currency in the affair and worked like a charm with AP so why shouldn't it work on the BS. It's the first tool used to dig themselves out of this hole they created. And maybe it does work for a bit, until the BS's anger stage comes, and then it's clear that compliments and praises mean very little and aren't going to cut it.

That is an excellent insight. That is why the BS is should drive the ship. They should define what they want not the WS. At first I wanted the love note and that crap. But that is exactly what that stuff is - crap. Part of the push down by the BS is to put them in their place until the BS can get a breath of air in their lungs and take a look around at what is really happening.

take care...



Posts: 1441 | Registered: Jan 2012
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to say, at 13 months out, I get a much bigger "happiness buzz" from her being able to honestly express her emotions with some clarity. She has never had this skill, ever. Her being eager to go to-, and discuss-, her IC appointments mean a hell of a lot more to me than some "I love you", or "I miss you", or "You're so handsome."

Not to be a dick, but those other things? I bet she says those to all the boys....


I have a competition in me.

Posts: 2251 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Wert, good to see you posting.
I am glad you brought this up. This topic I think evokes a quasi PC element at times. Be the bigger person, forgiveness is for you you, two wrongs don't make a right,etc.All of that dogma never really set right with me. I know it comes down to the unfairness bit, but explaining it doesn't it make it better either.

The anger sticks around for awhile and you have to let it out. I read so many post where the BS's anger immediately becomes "punishing," the WS. It can happen, butmost punishing is really expressing anger. It can feel like punishment I am sure, but the intent is not behind it.

I really needed to believe that my W was "all in," before I was going to let myself be, "all in." The begging was one thing that helped me. Listening to my anger without protest helped too. Knowing it was horrible for her and yet she stuck it out showed she at least had some "commitment," to working this out and was willing do things that were not easy to save the M. On the same token, just "staying" despite the hell she created showed her how I was committed. Right, wrong of indifferent shouldn't I have that assurance as well ? Just because the A was over did not mean that

The " I will do anything" speech is fine, but in reality most do not mean that. Saying this and then immediately or subsequently talking about boundaries ? How else would a sane person interpret that ? At best the first statement is dishonest. Why is the BS so angry when refused something ? Dishonesty is not a good way to rebuild trust or safety.

This "re-balancing " of the power dynamic in the relationship needs to happen. If the person who cares the least has the most power it goes without saying the WS, by having an A, created a severe power imbalance. The power dynamic has to get back to parity before any negotiation or talk about R can happen. Just saying you are sorry does nothing to restore the imbalance.

A H or W that cheats on their spouse deserves (for lack of better term) a D. They deserve to receive the full consequences of their actions. They deserve the shame, guilt and pain associated with. A BS does not, but gets consequences anyway. This is even if the M does not survive. Fair ? Not even in the same universe. Acknowledging that when the WS doesn't have to live it doesn't always make it better either.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2570 | Registered: May 2010
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The WS needs to be willing to beg because she is totally committed to R, but the WS needs to maintain her self-respect, or she at least needs to be committed to regaining her self-respect.

Yes, totally. I like your distinction Sisoon, and the clarified direction the thread has taken.

I don't want a puppet. I want a strong, authentic partner. The wayward has a lot of growing and changing to do. It's a conundrum; you have to be somewhat patient while they work on becoming whole, authentic people, which at the same time not accepting too little effort under the guise of "trying." I suppose only each BS knows where that magic mix is. For me, I told him I expected perfection. 100%. All the time. He had no room for error. And while I know perfection is impossible in humans, I certainly wasn't going to set the bar any lower. He did his best to reach the expectation. Along the way, as I did the work I needed to do, we worked into a joint rhythm. Consistent forward progress was my mantra.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6643 | Registered: Jan 2011
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The anger sticks around for awhile and you have to let it out.

Yep and thanks man for posting. Hope things are better. They are for me.

I remember our first MC telling me I 'had' to let go of my anger and if I didn't do it soon I would most likely loose my M. I told her to F-off. I told her and my W that they were afraid of a man being angry and if either of them wanted to continue a relationship with me, they had better get used to it for a while. Truth be told I was just fine with my W being afraid. Not physically, but on just about every other level I was OK with it because I was done with placating anybody. Just stay back and let me think this shit through.

At this point it still stirs below the surface at times as rachelc pointed out. I have let go of most of it, but I need to give it more attention now because I see it as counter productive for myself and long term for my M. I will talk with my W about it. She where she is with it.

They deserve to receive the full consequences of their actions. They deserve the shame, guilt and pain associated with.

All true, but I don't want her or us (because I still am living with her!) to stay there.

After some thought this is one of those things I posted I think to tell newly found out folks and people in limbo that it's OK to hate. It's OK to turn your back on them like they did you. To often I think BS's jump into fix it mode and "understanding" and they don't give themselves licenses to really just hate that person for a while. Detach and look at the world as it is, not as you want it to be or how it was. Don't be afraid to be angry and show it, just save the punching for the bag....

take care...



Posts: 1441 | Registered: Jan 2012
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But 100% perfection - is that something any WS wants to live under?
I thought I wanted this because after two of his affairs, I wouldn't ACCEPT anything other than perfection. There were bumps. HUGE ones, until he figured it out and honestly, there will still be bumps. I have bumps as a former WW.
Should I have divorced him because he got his secretary a gift on our wedding anniversary but me nothing? It's that kind of thing that happens that our MC said we have to allow for.
That said, I'm pretty damn tired allowing for the bumps to happen. I feel resentment because if he read more or got more out of IC, these bumps would be less likely to happen.
We all have the rules of NC, etc but, I'm not sure any human being can be perfect enough so that no other issues come up.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5486 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
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