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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: t/j from jfo
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the wronged man struck a chord in my head last night with this quote.
However, after a while I start to think that she has gotten everything she wants and has now 'won' and now I'm carrying the can for it all. Basically I think she's gotten off lightly, though I know making her suffer (for want of a better word) will be counterproductive for our recovery. This whole process is like a vicious circle.

Oh I get this feeling! It took years to search through its root. I think it is a common thing for some of us in R., a thing we all must work through. I read this and thought, I disagree that making her suffer will be counterproductive. Wasn’t my reality. I will say I did make my wife suffer. Am I proud to say it? probably not. Is a common practice, for some of us in R? maybe. Would I apologize for it? no. It was part of the process; it was part of MY process. I closed off from the M and it was on my terms. At various stages she had to bear the brunt of my tirades and war games. I wanted my pound of flesh damn it. I could take any issue and make it about her A. I could take every show, comment, look and twist it and deliver a sharp response aimed right at her deed. I wanted the power in the relationship and she needed to know I had it.
Post D day there is a small window of opportunity for the WS to display remorse. My wife missed it. I got 5+ months of TT and obfuscation. I wasn’t at a point to leave, So I started full on war, dig a fox hole, get ready for all out protection mode. As a BS I could either leave (which I wasn’t able to do) or start making compromises in my brain that allowed me to stay. So I did, I compromised, I turned the marriage into a protracted state of disconnected warfare where I set the rules (changed them daily) and was ready for battle. It took 2 years of my wife providing honesty transparency and living by our marital contract for me to put down arms. She put up with my warfare. She stayed and showed me consistency even when I was indifferent to it and didn’t give 2 shits about her caring and showing me she was changed. If she said “I love you’ my response was “ really, that’s good” or “are you sure”.
For me the answer to that feeling that she “won” was a integration of 2 different pieces. One was the realization that she didn’t get off easy, she had pain and suffering. A lot of shame and fear. Was it a scale of balance? No. There is no justice here. But she changed, she showed me more commitment there in that trying time than she showed our whole marriage. It was hard to look her in the eye and not see she was all in.
But, at the same time the second piece was one where I had to learn about myself, I had to accept that I had chosen to accept the unacceptable. My wife was a monster who stabbed me in the back and I had chosen to stay not out of love, but because I was me. I am way to committed to my character and vows to start over. I had to learn to forgive myself for that. I had to learn to accept that I am by nature risk-averse and loyal. I am “that guy”, the guy who will stay with a cheating wife. This was hard, not easy. Not easy to accept about yourself and also open my heart and love her again. Which, to this day, half of my male lizard brain says makes me a feckless puss. So I thought to myself, don’t ignore that part of you that is saying the scales of justice need to be squared. Not because it can be squared, but that It teaches you much about yourself. It allowed me to work through these two pieces and integrate it.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1909 | Registered: Nov 2010
Crushed15Feb13
♂ Member
Member # 38846
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wonderful post, thank you.

To my way of thinking, it requires more of us to stay and fight for our relationship, for our families. To show compassion and understanding to a woman who showed you so little. It takes a special kind of bravery and courage, an extra measure of everything that is good in our nature, not to turn and flee from someone who caused you such indescribable pain.

No way you are a feckless puss, friend. No way. You took it and you are still standing, and you even opened your heart to the person who dished it out on you. Tough to find words to describe that kind of strength.

To the topic of the post, though. I have thought the same thing about her getting her cake, and eating it, too. And it seems so unfair. But then I wonder if nobody really gets away with anything, in the grand scheme of things. It's hard to measure the weight of the cross she is forced to bear for the rest of her life.

[This message edited by Crushed15Feb13 at 9:54 AM, February 21st (Friday)]


Me: BH, 54
Her: WW, 54 4 yr LTA
Married 31 yrs, 2 college age boys
DDay #1: 15Feb13 - LTA 2008-2013
DDay #2: 27Jan14 - ONS, same AP 2007 - turns out it was a 5 yr LTA
Trying to understand

Posts: 251 | Registered: Mar 2013
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's hard to measure the weight of the cross she is forced to bear for the rest of her life.

Agreed this is the first piece I was discussing. I think if you go to the Wayward forum you see those truly remorseful waywards do pay a heavy price as you say. It helped me significantly to understand it wasn't all cake.
That was almost easier than the second piece, the internal reconciliation with who I was as a person.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1909 | Registered: Nov 2010
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It takes a special kind of bravery and courage, an extra measure of everything that is good in our nature, not to turn and flee from someone who caused you such indescribable pain.

I aint special......LOL...I am trying to be...but the struggle is so real....


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
eachdayisvictory
♀ Member
Member # 40462
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is so real for me too. The WS has a cross of shame to bear, but so do we. As you said, we are 'that person' who stayed with someone who cheated. It's a hard pill to swallow, and requires an enormous amount of self esteem and confidence. Which is hilarious since that's one part of me that was particularly abused during this whole process.

What I take from this thread is that bit you talked about strength. I do feel in love with myself and proud of myself. I told all my close friends and family, we did, I insisted on it. So it's pretty likely that some of those people look on my decision to stay as weakness or insecurity or fear of change etc. So a BS has to be so sure of themselves and the work of the remorseful spouse, that they can internalize that pride and be confident enough to face the shame - and turn it away.

There is no fair here. Nothing about it is fair. It will never become fair. I think I was waiting and searching and working for a way to make things 'fair' for a long time. The key for me right now is acceptance. Acceptance of injustice, my feelings of anger and hatred for the OW, and an understanding that I will not feel like this forever. Feelings change, and even if I am incredibly sad that my H was too stupid and selfish to understand this when the going got tough in our M, I believe that he is different now.

When I get into a cycle of wondering if I'm doing the right thing, or if he deserves me, or fear that I'll change my mind and choose D, I have to remember that it's my choice. I can choose to live my life the way I want to, and I make that choice based on reflection, writing, communicating, challenging myself and staying in the present as much as possible.

I am amazing. You are amazing. That's really the bottom line.


me, BW: 34
FWH: 35
Dday: Feb 2013
LTA for 2+years
children: 2 boys age 3 and 6
Reconciling

Posts: 380 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nova Scotia, Canada
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So it's pretty likely that some of those people look on my decision to stay as weakness or insecurity or fear of change etc. So a BS has to be so sure of themselves and the work of the remorseful spouse, that they can internalize that pride and be confident enough to face the shame - and turn it away.

Or genuinely not give a shit about what others think.

LHAP? - Great post.

It did get me thinking about the scales. I do wonder if part of that lack of trust, part of that holding them a bay for a while, part of that punishment and taking what is ours isn't trying to balance things out just a tad. It's not fair, but possibly fair enough? Maybe that is why I treated her so poorly post A. Not only did I not give a rip, I wanted her to know it. We have definitely re-calibrated out relationship. It's not just about improved communication. It not just about them becoming authentic. It is, for a while, about balancing things back out.


I guess what I am questioning is this statement

though I know making her suffer (for want of a better word) will be counterproductive for our recovery.

Is that really true? Maybe it is actually a way for some people to be able to enter into R. Specifically, with non remorseful, TT'ing WS like ours.

Like this. If they don't come clean right away, put them in a corner, tell them you don't need them and let them know when they grow up to come and find you while you move the hell on. That does not mean leave the house, it just means leave them. Improving communication and working towards forgiveness together can't start until those scales are at least tilted back a little. If they are remorseful and genuine about it maybe that sets things straight enough to venture into understanding. But if they aren't the BS must do it for them, by holding them off emotionally or leave. It's dark shit, but so was my W's A.

Shit I can be as understanding as all get out if someone just cops to being a dumbass and comes clean. It's when they don't that I really want my pound of flesh.


Shit. I just realized where my remaining anger stems from. It's not my wife's A. It's what she put me through post discovery. She has stopped that for a while and turned it around...I really need to let that go...out for a run....

take care...

[This message edited by wert at 1:38 PM, February 21st (Friday)]



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, February 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...making her suffer (for want of a better word) will be counterproductive for our recovery.

It was well into my 2nd year that I gave up my desire to punish my W. What stopped me every time was that every punishment I could envision ended up hurting me as well as my W. If I could have hurt her without hurting myself, I would have done it.

The reason I didn't do much to make her suffer was that it was counterproductive for ME. I'd have been fine with delaying R a while.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10378 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Topic Posts: 7

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