Please stop waiting. Your account name isn't really right--you do know. It is painful, but doesn't become less so by trying to ignore it.
I don't know if she was genuine in therapy when she assured you of future fidelity, or if she never meant it, but she needs to not go on this trip, dump the friend, give you total access to her email/phone, and go back into MC. If not you need to go see a lawyer.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. You deserve so much better!
If so, why dont you just get a room at this hotel and actually find out and catch her.
If not, you need to confront her very soon and tell her the games are over.
I'm afraid if you tell her what you read, she will lie out of it with things like, oh I was joking etc.
To be honest, I have put up with so much of this over the years that, if she denies this, then I think I would tell her if she goes away then we're done.
The message I saw speaks for itself - and I am more and more satisfied that this happening.
That said, fortunately I have a week to figure out what to do - and I may find more evidence in that period.
Your WW never worked through her issues. And I hate to say it, you didn't follow through when you caught her in the past. Throwing the phone in the toilet? That doesn't sound remorseful to me.
This time, hold her fully accountable. Don't accept one iota of blameshifting, gaslighting, or deflection. If an answer doesn't sound right, don't accept it.
She may or may not be able to change. She may or may not WANT to change. But that doesn't mean that you have to accept it. Let her know, from this very moment, that she is either all in on fixing this marriage, or not. There is no in between.
Easier said than done----absolutely. But it doesn't make it any less real.
All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D
So it does come down to next weekend. You should just tell your wife that if she does go on this trip, you will know exactly how she feels about you and the marriage.
The bad thing is though, that she will most certainly turn this on you. You are the bad guy, you are the sneaky SOB. You are this and that.
And then she will lie out of the real meaning of the email.
SO I guess to avoid her being able to lie out of the email meaning, try and find a little something more, enough so that she cannot lie out of it in any way.
I think many BS's give too many second chances and then have to go through all of this again.
Happiness is a choice.
My stomach is still churning, my hands shake, and I feel terrible.
I haven't been able to find anything more. On the positive side, I was able to take a photo of the original emails I found on the tablet, so now she can't delete and deny.
any more advice is welcome.
Listen, I know that it sucks. But your wife is not doing the things that she should be doing - particularly as someone who has had multiple indiscretions in the past. She does not get latitude and you do not need to worry about absolute proof. You certainly do not need to be "catching them in the act" or building evidence.
You sit her down - before she goes away - and let her know that you know. Period. She cancels the trip and ends the friendship with her buddy (who, by the way, is no friend of the marriage).
It doesn't matter if she has already slept with this other guy, has just communicated with him - or even if she was just kidding! It's inappropriate. She should not have ANY communication.... read that again.... ANY COMMUNICATION with ANY MAN who is not her father, brother, or you. She has shown herself to be someone who does not have firm boundaries and until this is resolved she no longer gets this privilege.
She does not have to agree. She doesn't owe it to you. But you also don't owe it to HER to remain married.
Complete and total transparency is a requirement of the marriage. You ask to see her phone, or her tablet, and she should be handing them over to you GLADLY. With a smile on her face. Anything else means that she's hiding something - and that is not a good sign.
Bottom line. She complains, makes excuses, or - certainly - goes on this weekend trip........ she packs her bags because the doors will be locked when she gets home. Make sure she understands, in no uncertain terms, what she's doing and what the repercussions are.
Have strengthen. Do not tolerate someone who is treating you like this. It isn't her first time down this road and she hasn't learned her lesson. Learn yours.
First of all, it seems that your wife has a habit of seeking extramarital relationships. Also, it seems that your wife has you figured it out pretty well. She discloses everything when you catch her, thus giving you the false sense of security that you know everything so you can start trusting her again. Once the trust has been reacquired, she starts all over again.
Is this something you are comfortable with? Because I don't see your wife changing modus operandi.
As someone said on SI recently, fears is the BS kryptonite. Don't be afraid... You actually don't need any additional evidence than what you already have. Unless is for legal purposes, you have plenty to establish, at minimum, intent.
I would suggest that you sit her down and tell her that unless she comes clean right that moment YOU are done with her. No need to mention emails, evidence, etc. Just tell her that YOU are done with her. She has one chance to fix this, but it will take real digging into what is up with her very likely through IC / MC.
Don't give her a chance to gaslight you. Just tell her that you are enforcing a no spin zone. She is free to go and be with whomever she wants, male, female, and anything in between... just not as your wife. End of story. If she wants to leave, it means that she was already on her way out or on her way to continuing the kind of behavior that has given you some many year of anguish. That's no way to live, my friend.
Best of luck to you.
I have been thinking a lot about this and, if this is an A on any level - or even inappropriate contact - then I do not think I can handle her anymore. I think it might just have to be over. But then I think of the life we've built, the plans we had, our kids (who are step-siblings) etc.
This is so awful -for everyone here.
In my opinion, you are giving her too much leeway. I don't mean to be insensitive, but you really need to change approach with her.
Your current approach has given you many more years of suspicion, jealousy, diffidence. Again, she clearly knows how to manipulate you, leverage your love for her. Don't allow her to do that any more. Just tell her that you expect unconditional and unabridged truthfulness from her and that her choice in the next 2 minutes will determine the course of her life.
Be very serious and, most importantly, believe it yourself. Be ready to let her go and divorce her before talking to her. Approach this from a position of strength.
I know that this is is extremely hard. I had to appeal to all my strengths (not that I had much left) and just let my wife go, in spite of 2 kids together and a decent life that was going to unravel pretty quickly thereafter. I've never felt so empowered after I reached that state. I was ready, preferably with her, but I would have been ok without her as well. She saw that and realized what was about to happen and snapped out. It has not been easy, but without that, I doubt that she would have come out.
Best of luck
I have been thinking a lot about this and, if this is an A on any level - or even inappropriate contact - then I do not think I can handle her anymore.
C'mon. You know that the message you found was inappropriate... by anyone's standards. Unfortunately, this isn't a first time thing where she didn't realize what she was doing. Your wife has done this multiple times in the past and she knows - or damn well should know - that such behavior is completely inappropriate. Either she knows you're not going to do anything about it or, well, she doesn't give a shit.
I know how scared you are. Facing the prospect of ending the marriage is very scary. But remember, setting down the rules of your marriage doesn't mean it has to end. It just means that she needs to abide by them (as do you). She can disagree, she can even say, "No." But then she's simply stating that she's not in the marriage.... no?
See that's the thing about letting go of the outcome. It forces a wayward spouse to make a decision. But she doesn't get to have it both ways. And this is what she has had for a long time.
Force her to make a decision. Take a deep breathe and, as I said previously, you don't even need to show her your hand. YOU KNOW that she's acting inappropriately. And that's all that you need to tell her. She knows. And she will know that YOU KNOW.
Then.... the ball is in her court.
You've gotten great advice here already, and excellent support from some of the other BH. My two cents...
You know what is going on.
You know what you need to do. It isn't what you want, but it's what is necessary for your own sanity and self-preservation. She really isn't giving you any choice, because it seems your only other option is to continue living miserably the way you are while she cake-eats. I hope you realize that you are worth more than that treatment. You deserve so much better.
In regards to the emails you saw, is it a tablet like an ipad? If so do a screenshot and then email the photo to yourself.
Sending hugs and strength.
Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. ~ Anais Nin
if this is an A on any level - or even inappropriate contact
I think you need to think clearly and stand your ground. I think you need to confront her today about this and just tell her she is not going away for the weekend. Plain and simple.
Watch her reactions and learn. Do all of this calmly. Your calm reaction to her might even scare her if you have usually shown worry or livid anger. Calm shows you have resolve and made up your mind that there will be no more of this idiocy and nonsense from her.
And do not tell her anything about how you know this information unless you really have to. Let her wonder for a change.
But it is time you make it clear to her that yes, she has a problem and her actions are not her own since they are affecting you in a negative way.
And you will help her with her problem, but that doesnt mean letting her run off with some woman who seems to be having an affair herself.
One thing...Do you know this other woman, have you ever met her?
Always remember, even if you arent religious, always have faith. Faith that it will work out for the best.
After reading your profile I hate to say it...but I think you have given her enough of your life and happiness. Its time to move on. She doesn't even deserve you!! Give her what she obviously wants (and deserves!) and set YOURSELF free.
I may sound too harsh by saying the following. (but I feel so much anger that she is doing this AGAIN to you.)
LEAVE HER. It really does boggle my mind (being a betrayed partner) that any of us can actually go through the HELL of the first A and then when it happens again...actually staying for a second (or 3rd or 4th)dose of hell! Once is enough!
I'm 8 months out from DDAY and its been the most stressful, emotionally draining, exhausting and painful thing I've been through in my life. I would never in a million years go through it all over again.
Obviously she has learned nothing from what you have already been though, and doesn't value you as a person. This is no way to live, and she doesn't deserve you!
At what point do we realize that repeat behavior means they aren't going to change!?
Sending you strength today!! :)
Together 7 years
DDay: June 24, 2013
craig - I do know the other woman. I know she is terribly unsatisfied with her marriage. i know she at least had an emotional affair - perhaps more w- with someone. I don't trust her at all.
(***as a cruel aside, the emotional affair was with a friend of mine who I met with my ex wife who also cheated on me!).
I can't confront this weekend the kids are here and it will be bad. I also know my own way of processing these things. I need to think them through. I will be ready before next Thursday.
Your step kids may be able to keep a relationship with each other. Change happens and people adjust. Don't let the fear of it keep you in a bad situation. You are allowing your rights as a human (not even just as a husband) be trampled--the right to be anxiety-free, to feel safe, to be happy without looking over your shoulder.
Really try and remember how much more you deserve so that you feel strong enough to demand it and call her bluff when you confront. It is okay to make demands of a partner. As others say, she doesn't have to agree to them. But you have the right to set boundaries and enact consequences. You are not stuck.
This may be helpful...
here is a novel idea.
Ask her to move out.
And when she asks why just show her the messages.
Tell her you have no trust in her anymore and you need her to make arrangements to leave the home you two share.
Then watch what she does.
Do not listen to her but watch what she does.
Does she cancel her trip?
Does she turn this around on you and make you out to be controlling?
You will have your answers soon.