Yes, he wants to see me hurt. He wants the field leveled so we're even, so he no longer has his innocence either. His words.
No, he does not want me to raise a stink about it. He wants me to quietly watch it happen with no protest. He never got to protest. His words.
We'll never be even. He says this helps temper his anger but he is always angry with me--because I confront him on this.
This will solve nothing. Nothing good will come of it.
Show him this thread. Print it out. leave it on his bed
What do you have to lose? I know you are afraid to anger him. But he needs someone to hold up a mirror to him
Tell him about SI
It might just save your Marriage.
I am glad that you have drawn a minimum boundary of not having sex with him if he cheats. Have you told him this, or afraid of that too?
Perhaps you need to read the thread in R on Victim / Perpetrator dynamics and then decide how much crap you want to put up with in your life.
Gently said ... Simply not having sex with him if he has his RA isn't setting boundaries, its enabling. You need to re-read the page on putting the 180 into practice right now.
He can go on and on with his justification, and his rationales and his reasons. It doesn't change the damage he will do to himself, you and your marriage. Cheating is cheating.
Print this thread out like Mrs Panda suggests and give it to him. So what if it makes him angry. Better him angry than him being a two timing cheater.
If you can't convince him, then I guess he will just have to learn the hard way that cutting out his soul will will not heal his broken heart. And both of you will have to live with that consequence. Yecch.
Oh .. and read this post too. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=434654
[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 9:24 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)]
There are very few instances in a marriage where a *zero-sum* attitude works. A marriage is almost never *equal* in any one snippet of time.
I second (or is it 3rd by now?) showing this thread to your husband. He will be able to read the responses from other BH's who chose the path that your husband is choosing and he will see how it worked/or didn't for them.
IMO, this woman that your husband is dabbling with needs to know the truth about the situation. Have you considered finding out who she is and letting her know what is going on? Maybe she won't care, but maybe she'll turn tail and run. Maybe send her something that isn't bitchy.....just facts. "It has come to my attention that you are involved with my husband. You are an adult who can make her own decisions about her own life. Good decisions can only be made when you have good information.....and I believe that you have been making decisions with *bad* information and that you deserve to know the truth of the matter. I'm not sure what <he> has told you, but the facts of our situation are <xyz>. Take care. FHL."
In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.
No, haven't mentioned withholding sex. At that point, I'm sure he'll say fine, I'm getting enough from op. No need to tell him. I'll probably know it.
I know where my line is.
He admitted tonight that this is an attempt to find a solution, wants the payback, wants us at the same level. He wants his curiosity satisfied, too. I get the satisfaction of nothing, though, no guarantees it ends, when it ends, or what he'll do after.
I disagree with this opinion. I never thought about having an A. I had many many opurtunities while traveling to different countries, I never did anything because I loved my wife, she was so special to me that I never could hurt her in that way. But when she cheated that specialness lost for ever. When she hurt me and not ready to acknoledge my pain and hurt, when she was still protecting her OM, I felt I should also hurt her back then only she will realise what I am going through and had my RA.I wasnt looking for an A. The way she looked up me was horrible and belitted me as if I am good for nothing. I want to prove myself and her that I have options and can bed any one.
Really my RA helped her to come out of the fog quickely. RA is a good medicine if your WS is remorseless, stii in fog, protecting OM and not ready to acknoledge the pain they caused.
but I will never advise this because of the pain it cause to self.
What you are describing for a WS is the opposite of me. Both my IC and mc counselors say they've never seen anyone so remorseful and sincere and also feeling the hurt.
I have done everything my bs has asked: given him hundreds of thousands of dollars for his name only, dropped friends that had nothing to do with this other than knowing the guy, I wear only what he wants me to wear, I never go out unless I have the kids or him with me or I'm running errands, and he knows where I am, I've given up employment to prove my commitment, I will only take a job where he's comfortable. I show my love, demonstrate my intent with actions, and have his back. I don't know what else to do. He is just hell-bent on this.
And you're not allowed to dress yourself?
You say you don't know what else to do. To stop your Wayward husband? Or to start creating boundaries for YOU?
If you were reading this thread as if you were a stranger, what advice would you give the thread starter? Be honest.
Why are you protecting him and his choices? He's an abuser.
Why are you selling yourself short?
hopefaithlove4 - What do you do when your BS starts a revenge affair? How am I supposed to do this? What do I do? What are my options? Anyone deal with a BS becoming a WS?
If its not too late, I would like to return to the initial questions you asked in this thread and see if we can come from another angle to address those questions.
If you don't mind me voicing my opinion, I think the failure on this thread was one of mis-communication. I think that everyone else assumed that you were asking for advice. That you would listen to their well-meaning advice, sort through it, come to some decision and move forward. But I don't think you ever intended that. I think at one level, your addicted to this drama.
You see, I was reading some old posts today and I ended up remembering another WS here with a very similar situation, eerily similar in fact. Some of the old timers might remember burntashes and her story.
Like you, she had a BS who started a RA, like you, she lived with a controlling and abusive H, like you, she was a door mat unable to assert herself in order to protect herself and her daughter. Like you, she came here daily and weekly saying woe is me, my h wants this and doesn't want that. Like you, the WS community rallied around her and supported her. Like you, they suggested the 180 and lawyers and leaving. Like you, all of that well meaning advice and heartfelt suggestions seemed to go to naught.
And then it started, one poster after another grew tired of screaming into the wind. They grew tired of supporting this unwilling victim who just couldn't get it. And as these posters grew frustrated, they would post a farewell " I hope it all works out well in the end, but I gotta go" post.
And then, out of the blue apparently, there was a update with the news that she had taken her first step to independent living, moving out and away from her horrible abusive controlling situation. I never saw an explanation of what tipped her over the edge but she did fall over the edge. I always harbored a suspicion that perhaps it had been the act of being abandoned here on SI for her failure to take some steps, any steps, to control her own life, that prompted her decision. I sincerely hope it was.
I know we're not supposed to become emotionally involved with the unfolding lives of our fellow WS but its hard not too. We get caught up in emotions because at one level or the other, we know what those feeling are. Been there, done that. We can identify with your fears, your concerns, your indecisiveness and your worries. But ultimately, if we stay attached, we risk loosing ourselves in your story. A Stockholm syndrome, so to speak. And that's not healthy. Its frustrating in the least to share yourself and find that it falls into emptiness.
As I said at the start of this post, I want to turn your question around. I want you to tell me what your doing for your own protection, for your own self-healing. What steps are you taking today to take control of your life? What actions have you taken yesterday to set firm boundaries? What are you planning to do tomorrow to protect your own interests? What can you do?
Because in the end, it is always up to you. I can give you advice and support but you have to take the first step in your own healing. You have to make the phone call. You have to find the strength within yourself. I can't do that for you. Mrs Panda can't do that for you. JustDesserts can't do that for you either. Not SI and not your BS either. It all starts and ends with you.
So, you already have the accumulated wisdom of both the BS and WS community reaching out for you in this thread, in the forums and in the healing library. I don't know if there is anything more that we can say to ever tip you over the edge and push you into action. Right now, you seem content to be a doormat and an enabler. Maybe this is something that you can live with but if you do, then you will always remain a broken, ducted taped WS.
Lastly, I want to say that I won't be posting anymore on this thread cause it breaks my heart to see this unfolding like a slow motion train wreck. Maybe other posters will remain but I can't. I wish you good luck.
Wisdom from Gamine - Make a decision and discipline yourself not to waver. Don't be someone who stands for nothing. Stand for what you decide and back it with the full force of your character and conviction. DECIDE. CHOOSE. COMMIT. PERIOD.
I was assuming maybe she signed a post nuptial agreement, saying she would give up any claims on retirement, pension benefits?
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
If you theorize a marriage like a home, an affair is the equivalent of dumping a bunch of gasoline all over, lighting a match and burning the whole damn thing to the ground.
This is what you did with your affair.
Now, when the affair is over and the WS/BS are sorting through the wreckage and putting the pieces back together again to try and decide what to do... when the BS then grabs some cans of gasoline, a match and torches the whole thing as well, this is an RA.
This is what your BS/MH did.
The BIG problem is it isn't ending. He's continuing to go out, grab gasoline and torch whatever you may try to put back together again and again and again as the affair continues, so you're wasting your time.
It's complete and utter bullshit if you keep trying to own this repeating, perpetual RA nonsense on your prior affair. Stop trying to convince us of this and maybe you'll start to see it yourself.
It's complete and utter bullshit what your BS is doing to you now... and on top of it, in this form of using like a horse & carrot it's ABUSE, plain and simple.
Take the hard line NOW and stop the abuse. The ball is totally in your court now for how much abuse you are willing to settle from your BS.
Good luck to you!
I know the agony you are feeling. As HUFI mentioned, I went thru that agony myself. I thought tolerating my H's sleeping with random women as his way of coping with the pain was "proving my love". What it did was the beginning of more behavior that added lasting pain to the relationship.
I wish I had left at the first RA. I still struggle with triggers and pain, regret for putting up with things I never should have. I love my H and we are together, and we have a very clear agreement of what is not acceptable now. But I wish I had enough self respect to put down clear boundaries much earlier.
If your gut tells you this is not acceptable to you, tell your H. And if he insist on dating, as hard as it is, leave. Take it from someone who's been there, it is not worth putting up with. Having an A is a serious lack of self respect. To heal the WS dysfunction, the first step has to be start respecting your own integrity, and don't accept being expected to tolerate cheating. It's not about what you deserve. It's what a relationship requires to survive- fidelity.
It is a hard road, but we can learn and grow if we try to do the right thing the best we can. (((hugs and strength)))
t/j HUFI, I did not decide to leave or improve my situation because I was abandoned by support on SI. Having no access to any support system during hellish time only makes it more dark. But then, maybe you're right - we all have to learn to do thing the hard way sometimes. End t/j
2. Regarding the money: right after dday, he wanted to do a real estate investment. I was reluctant to begin with due to my financial anxiety and not wanting any major changes during this turmoil. But he insisted with "either this or divorce". He eventually backed off with that statement. So we took a chunk of money from our joint account and purchased this real estate in his name only. In the end it doesn't matter because of divorce laws in the state we're in.
3. Hufi, this is the only place I have for support outside of my IC. I get what you're saying and I'm trying to step back and look at this carefully. I'm not going to make any rash decisions and at this point I'm not discussing any decisions on this board. To me, this is the information gathering stage. He has seen this woman twice. He is also agreed to visit an IC because on some level he does recognize that this isn't the right choice. I don't know if he'll go through with IC or the affair. I think he wavers on wanting to stay married and keeping his self-respect and retribution. I didn't say it was healthy thinking, I don't support or justify it, I'm saying that's where I see his head at right now.
Burnt ashes, thank you.
Hufi, this is the only place I have for support outside of my IC.
I'm not going to make any rash decisions and at this point I'm not discussing any decisions on this board.
Do you just want a pat on the head and a "there, there, everything will be okay"?
I'm sorry I'm not sharing my plans on the board. But right now, I feel that I only have my thoughts and I want to hold those cards tight to me. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone or not, but right now I'm feeling I need to guard myself.
And I am not justifying what he is doing. He is using the same poor coping choices that I did to try and solve a problem. I've stood in those shoes, I see it unfolding, and I understand where it's coming from. But, no, I am not justifying it.
I am glad that you seem to be realizing that
despite my crap choices that I do not deserve this.