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User Topic: Conversation with 13 - revisited (long)
Pass
♂ Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, February 26th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Posting this in a new thread because I just can't go back and read the other one. It was upsetting.

In my "Conversation with 13" thread yesterday, I kind of lost it. Y'all were giving me what you thought was good advice, and I got defensive. I still disagree with a lot of what you said, but I appreciate the love with which you said it.

I AM listening to what I think is the most important advice:
- Don't put shit in writing when we're having those conversations.
- Don't assume 13 is feeling the same things I am.
- Ask him to describe the problem before going off on a solution.
- Keep trying to get both boys in counselling.
- Keep up with my therapy.

Dude, OHIP will be putting my shrink's kids through college with the time he'll need to spend with me. My issues have issues. I am SO keeping up with my therapy.

It is within days of the first anniversary of the date I moved out. 13 has been saying the same things about his mom since Day 1. When I lived in that house, it was my self-appointed job to keep the kids away from her when she was in a bad mood, and I suddenly wasn't there for that.

In the beginning, I made excuses for her. With some strong advice from y'all, I finally stopped doing that.

Then I tried to deflect, to cheer him up, to make him think it wasn't so bad. That felt like I was denying the kid his feelings. I spent my entire marriage denying my feelings, and it tore me up - and made my depression worse. I finally decided I would stop doing that.

He needs to know that someone understands, that that is not how a loving relationship is supposed to be, that it is okay to be angry with someone you love. I don't let it turn into a big bitchfest about his mom, but I make sure that he knows I understand.

Today, he sent me a series of texts telling me about his mom yelling at him. They were driving home from school, and he was drumming on the book in his lap.

The Princess (yelling): 13! Stop drumming!

13: Why?

The Princess: Oh, so your right to drum gets priority?

13: Pretty much.

The Princess: FUCK OFF!

So I called him and told him that while I don't agree with his mom yelling at him right away, I wasn't there. In just that short conversation, I saw two things that he did wrong: He asked why when he was told to stop, and he was a smartass. I told him that if he doesn't want her to yell at him so much, he shouldn't be a smartass. And furthermore, it is fun to be smartass with his friends, but grownups don't like it, and I wouldn't like it either.

This is how the majority of our conversations go. But sometimes there are things that happen that are pretty black and white. That's when I tell him my honest opinion: When his mom is regularly a jerk to him, it is okay for him to be mad about it, and I understand. I will not teach him that he should respect the person who is being emotionally abusive and cold to him. I am divorcing that person because I wanted my sons to see that you can be strong, and get away from that - you don't have to put up with that shit.

Now for the record, it is not just a long string of jokes about tits while my boys are here with me. I always have, and always will, teach them that women are to be respected, and that they have to be polite to grownups even if they don't respect them. My boys are growing up to be strong, sensitive, respectful men. They do not, and will not, hate women. Neither do I.

I am not Disney Dad, I am not Mom-hating Dad, and I am not Mysoginist Dad. I am a strong, sensitive, respectful motherfucker.

Yes, my children swear, but I have taught them when and where to do it. When I was a kid, I never swore in front of my very religious parents, but I swore in front of absolutely everyone else, and didn't care who I offended. I am guiding my kids how to do it properly. Teaching them to not swear at all is just to deny any responsibility for the guidance they need.

My children also have been in fights at school. Last week, 13 got in a fight with a kid who wouldn't stop making racist comments to another kid in his class. He doesn't even like the kid who was being insulted, but knew it was wrong. 13 is also the youngest person I saw tweet about Pete Seeger's death. He also created an editorial YouTube video for parents of LGBT kids, trying to convince them that they need to love their kids for the people they are.

10 is a bit more of a challenge. He found his principal's email address on the Web and sent her an angry email after she took away his iPod. The Princess and I discussed it and agreed that he should lose all access to electronics for five weeks as a punishment. That five weeks damn near killed him, and us. On the flip side, he recently stopped hanging out with a friend because he is sick of this other kid making constant sexist comments.

I chose a lousy person to have kids with. That is because I was needy, depressed, in love, and exercised poor judgement. I have done everything I can to make up for that, and will continue to.

All of this is to say the following: I really do appreciate that you were all trying to help me. I honestly love you for it. However, I think that some of you were judging me as the idiot ex-spouses that you have had to deal with saying ridiculous things about you. I am not that person. Thanks for reading this.

[This message edited by pass at 10:39 PM, February 26th, 2014 (Wednesday)]


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1836 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
PurpleRose
♀ Member
Member # 33129
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, February 26th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thing about being a parent is that YoU get to decide how to parent your own kid.

Even when you are so very wrong. And pass, your new post is nice, but you are still wrong. Whether you care to hear it, see it, or believe it you are teaching your son to disrespect his mother by coming to "your side" to vent and bitch about her perceived wrong-doings.

You ARE being his pal. Not his father.

How many of us have said the exact same thing to you since yesterday? That you are deflecting and making excuses -- cause thats what you are doing - is your perogative. But it does not make what you are doing ok by your kid.

I did not post to the other one because it was clear you are not able to hear any of us right now. But hear this-- i am NOT judging you based on interactions with my idiot ex. Not at all. You are dealing with a shitty situation. I get that, the helpless and out of control feeling when your kid calls you upset and technically there isnt a damn thing you can do about it.

It hurts!

But creating the "us" against the evil princess vibe IS alienating. It just is.

Sorry, pass. I know you were handed a similar shitty hand and we are dealing with people who should not be allowed around our kids, but 13 is not learning healthy coping mechanisms when he calls you and gets the messages you are sending.


divorced the Dooosh
*****************************
even if you find your voice,
sometimes it does not matter anymore,
when you speak to a man who is deaf by choice.
~dodinsky

Posts: 3555 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: Happyville
Pass
♂ Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, February 26th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thing about being a parent is that YoU get to decide how to parent your own kid.

Even when you are so very wrong. And pass, your new post is nice, but you are still wrong. Whether you care to hear it, see it, or believe it you are teaching your son to disrespect his mother by coming to "your side" to vent and bitch about her perceived wrong-doings.

You ARE being his pal. Not his father.

I'm sorry, Rose, but you're just not understanding. My kid is coming to me because something is wrong. This is something he has done since he was little (LONG before the separation). I want to know when something is wrong, as any parent should.

He comes to me when he has an argument with a friend, when a girl breaks up with him, when he is pissed off with a teacher, and - yes - when he's pissed with his mom. He also tells me when he thinks I'm being unfair. And we discuss it.

I discussed nothing with my parents. They love me in their way, but they still know nothing about me. It left me emotionally stunted. My kid has someone to talk to, and I'm proud that he feels comfortable enough to talk with me.

[This message edited by pass at 11:22 PM, February 26th, 2014 (Wednesday)]


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1836 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
PurpleRose
♀ Member
Member # 33129
Default  Posted: 11:43 PM, February 26th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Absolutely... He should absolutely come to you to talk. No one is disputing that, and I'm sorry if my post was confusing and led you to that assumption..

What many of us are trying to say is not that he should not call you to talk/vent about his mom. It's your way of responding that is putting us all on edge for you and 13.

I know how difficult it can be to step outside of our own situation and see what we are doing.

I am not going to beat a dead horse. And I certainly do not want to keep harping at you, either. Parenting is tough under the best of circumstances... Which most, if not all, of us do not have anymore!

It's just my opinion. Yes, I am a teacher. Yes, I work with kids everyday and see/hear the stuff they deal with from their parents every day. Some things make my toes curl. But admittedly I do not know your kids, and you do.

And I am the first one to say that I don't react perfectly with my own kids 100% of the time either. I am sure you will do right by your boys, and they are very lucky to have a dad that really loves them so much. :)


divorced the Dooosh
*****************************
even if you find your voice,
sometimes it does not matter anymore,
when you speak to a man who is deaf by choice.
~dodinsky

Posts: 3555 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: Happyville
GabyBaby
♀ Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, February 26th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What many of us are trying to say is not that he should not call you to talk/vent about his mom. It's your way of responding that is putting us all on edge for you and 13.
This exactly.
We're not trying to beat you up, we're trying to keep you from digging in so deep that your own actions hang you in court.

While I may disagree with allowing your kids to curse, etc, I do think you're a good dad. Your anger at your STBXW though is clouding your vision.

Best of luck, Pass.
Hugs to you and your boys.


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - R looks possible..

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6374 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
one2ndchance
♀ Member
Member # 14759
Default  Posted: 12:06 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When infidelity occurs in a family, all members are affected. There is a tsunami of emotions, actions, and reactions. There's anger, hurt, guilt, resentment, disgust, shame, regret, disillusionment and so much more. We've all said or done things that weren't the best of us. I remember, in the midst of despair, making comments to my daughters that I should not have made. I regretted it and vowed to do better. That is all you can do. None of us are perfect parents.

You love your children and as long as you act and speak with their best interests at heart, then you're a good parent.


Me: BW 59
Him: STBXWH 61
Married: 25 years
DDay1: 2/2002; DDay2: 6/2012
Gave him his second chance and he blew it.
Divorcing

Posts: 479 | Registered: May 2007 | From: California
persevere
♀ Member
Member # 31468
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it's a hard to navigate divorce with someone who has such a historically difficult personality. However, when kids are involved you have no choice but to find a medium, and really work to not include your kids in those dynamics.

I'm so sorry pass, I know this is hard, and your original email was not horrible, but I do agree that it encouraged a negative relationship between your son and XWS that was no appropriate.

I'm glad you are taking the time to really consider the feedback you're receiving. ((Hugs))


Me: BW-44
Him: XWH-44
Together 9 yrs
DDays: 1/10/2011
Status: Divorced 4/27/11

Above all, be the heroine, not the victim. - Nora Ephron

It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.
- J. K. Rowling


Posts: 4471 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 12:28 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I understand where you're coming from and what you're trying to do. I'm in the same place, trying to give my children healthy tools to cope with their emotionally abusive father. I do listen to them when they need to discharge/vent about what their dad does. They have to have a safe person in their life for this, especially since their father has manipulated them into not opening up to their counselor. I speak with the counselor every time we go and bounce off him things that have happened, how the kids & I responded, he gives me his opinions on how I responded, we brainstorm ways to improve, we discuss upcoming events. He's like a parenting coach for me. It's amazing. It's vital, because my ex continues to be a rat bastard to the kids. I need help.

My kids are pretty much the same age as your kids (close enough). I think you probably just need to modify your side of this equation. If 13 says his mom is being a fucking bitch, you could tell him you hear that he's angry/hurt/frustrated (you're giving him the emotional vocabulary) and understand why he feels that way. You don't have to chime in and agree she's a fucking bitch. You just agree that he's angry/whatever. If he relates an incident that is outrageous, it is fine to let him know that you'd be upset if that happened to you. You don't need to pull up specific illustrations that Princess Bitch acted out with you. You don't need to BE upset with 13, simply be a safe person for him to be upset with.

You help kids this age identify their feelings, you help them understand what happened, you help them figure out healthy ways to respond or cope. You provide them with safe, healthy ways to discharge the emotional energy. With my son, I allow him to swear in private with me. He can use any words in any combination, as long as he's not using them AT anyone and hurting someone with his words. That way he's validated, he knows he's been heard, he knows I care, he knows I understand. On a few occasions when my son has come home and told me that Dad yelled & screamed & terrorized the kids during visitation, I've shared with him that Dad has hurt my feelings in the past, or that he scared me when he yelled at me, and then I share how I felt (in an age-appropriate way). Then my son & I talk. We talk & talk & talk. But I don't call his dad a bastard or asshole. Sometimes my son calls his dad names. He's even said he wishes he could kill his father (and don't think that I haven't felt murderous rage in my heart, too, after the tales I've heard). The whole time I reflect back to him his feelings, keep naming them, keep letting him know that the way he's treated by Dad isn't right, helping him come up with ideas to cope, work on responses he might give, permission to walk away or call me...

Things are different when the other parent is abusive. You do have to cross a line that most parents don't. You do have to be more open & pre-emptive about the abuse & healthy responses. I think I get where you are right now. I do think that the conversation you posted yesterday (was it yesterday?) was inappropriate. See if you can modify your approach more.

Have you read the book I suggested quite a while ago about coparenting with a jerk?


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9538 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
PhantomLimb
♀ Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't gone back to reread the original email again... but it seems to me that one distinction that people are pointing out is between expressing empathy to your son and/or commiserating with him to validate his feelings, and providing him more explicit tools for dealing with his emotions that sort of takes the "you" out of it.

I don't know for sure, but I think one of the things that can promote a bit of codependency is someone using their emotions as a mirror onto the other person. My mother does this all the time. I can't call her to talk about a problem without her telling me about how she's felt the same thing or experienced the same thing. She tries to use that as a way to relate to me and tell me that she understands... but it becomes about her and I end up not feeling heard. Took me a long time to see that pattern and realize that it was ultimately harmful to me.

Even something like him telling you about an exchange with his mom where he is clearly in the wrong. I think you're right to tell him he was acting inappropriately (of course)-- but I would first to know why he felt like he wanted to push her buttons in the first place. I would want to hear as much of his side as I could before inserting myself into it in any way.

Just thinking out loud here...

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 7:55 AM, February 27th (Thursday)]


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Gemini71
♀ Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Pass. I'm going to go against the flow here and say that your email to 13 was fine. (Just don't put it in writing next time.)

I'm trying to look at this from the viewpoint of DS13. I grew up with an NPD/ADHD/OCD mother and it drove me NUTS. It really helped to be able to talk to my Dad and know that he saw some of the same things I did. In retrospect, a lot of his comments would now be considered 'parental alienation'. But, it was nothing compared to how my Mom would bitch about my Dad. They both got away with it because they never divorced.

Now that I'm an adult, I can deal with them much better. A lot of it is because of coping tools I learned in counseling. DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) was very helpful. Especially the Distress Tolerance and Emotional Regulation. I've also learned "do not poke the angry bear". From 13's exchange with CSTBXWW, it sounds like he still needs to learn this.

Anyway. From the bullet points you've listed, I think you've got a good handle on things. SI is like any other advice/support group, take what works for you and leave the rest.


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1657 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
cayc
♀ Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The Princess (yelling): 13! Stop drumming!
13: Why?
The Princess: Oh, so your right to drum gets priority?
13: Pretty much.
The Princess: FUCK OFF!

What?????? That's how she speaks to the kids? She's a fucking narcissist and no wonder those boys are slowly but surely going insane.

I don't get the advice you are getting. Because if you don't validate those boys feelings (her behavior is odd/punitive/selfish) you are de facto saying that the communication disconnect they are experiencing is not a disconnect. And in this situation if all you do is tell them they should behave so their mother doesn't lash out, you are teaching them to be co-dependent, focus on her feelings and manage their behavior in response to it.

I suspect I'll be flamed for posting this but I can't help myself. It hurts me when I see threads where someone is struggling, wandering about in the minefield of trying to balance being a parent, being a resource, and respecting the situation as it is (e.g. Pass can't do anything at the moment about custody) and posters pile on the "you're doing it wrong", i.e. you're a bad parent. I know bad parents, I had bad parents, and I can assure you I'd be a lot better off if I'd had an involved dad like Pass.


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3059 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
Pass
♂ Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks guys. Like Gemini says, I'm taking what I believe to be the valuable advice from here.

And I really do appreciate the fact that you all care enough to offer advice.

[This message edited by pass at 8:53 AM, February 27th, 2014 (Thursday)]


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1836 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
ideservebetter45
♀ Member
Member # 36951
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with gemini and cayc 100%.Your doing a great job co-parenting with an idiot.

Posts: 153 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: ideservebetter45
GingerAle
♀ Member
Member # 33822
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, my children swear, but I have taught them when and where to do it. When I was a kid, I never swore in front of my very religious parents, but I swore in front of absolutely everyone else, and didn't care who I offended. I am guiding my kids how to do it properly. Teaching them to not swear at all is just to deny any responsibility for the guidance they need.


Since when is teaching our kids when and where to swear one of our responsibilities? And at their very young ages?? It is wrong 100% of the time. I think this is another example of you wanting to be their buddy a little too much. Do you honestly think your boys don't swear at times that you have taught them not to?


My WH (The KISA, NPD) 6 month EA in 2010
2 other EAs in 2012 & 2013
Filed for D 7/2014


Posts: 404 | Registered: Nov 2011
Pass
♂ Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since when is teaching our kids when and where to swear one of our responsibilities? And at their very young ages?? It is wrong 100% of the time. I think this is another example of you wanting to be their buddy a little too much. Do you honestly think your boys don't swear at times that you have taught them not to?

Since when? It's always been our responsibility. It's part of teaching our children how to be respectful. Telling them that "It is wrong 100% of the time" is sticking your head in the sand. Kids will swear, and of course they will screw up and do it at inappropriate times - but they would probably do that more if I didn't give them any guidance.

I also discuss my drinking and past marijuana use with them. I also discuss sex with them. These are the things responsible parents do. My parents went with the "All that stuff is bad" approach. Do you think that stopped me from swearing, drinking, smoking, toking, and screwing? I did all that shit at a very young age.

As the adult in the situation, I have insights to give my kids about these things. I'd rather they get them from me than from the schoolyard. They will still learn bad shit on the schoolyard, but it may be at least tempered by what they've learned from me. At the very least, I've removed some of the mystery and appeal.

The main difference you're having a problem with is that I let 13 swear around me. To be honest, I don't see it as a big deal, but I have told him that other people do. 10 has been told that he is too young to know when it is inappropriate to use those words, so he isn't allowed at all. However, I know that he does: All ten-year-olds do, and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

Once again, my children know who the adult is in the situation.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1836 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You have to do stuff with what we call at work the Heart-head-heart sandwich.

The heart....you empathize
Head-rational
Heart-reiterate you understand

You did that.
Heart-told him, yeah its not cool that she yelled at you like that, nor that she responded by cussing
Head-but he was also being disrespectful and that isnt cool either
Heart-you let him know he was heard.

Thats a good start...just make a point to balance

[This message edited by NikkiD at 10:19 AM, February 27th (Thursday)]


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The *swearing* stuff is a parental decision -- and one that there will never be a consensus on, just like a *proper* bedtime or curfew. Seems to be a po-tato/pa-tahto issue.

My biggest concern is that your kid is learning how to *play* you both. Most kids are smart and very observant of their parents characteristics -- they know "when I do/say <abc>, then mom/dad does/says <xyz>". You've said that DS13 is very smart. He is also very angry with his mother (as he has a right to be). I believe that he may be taking advantage of your caring nature and that he is remaining in the *she'sabitch* frame of mind instead of taking steps to detach emotionally from her immature behavior and implement more healthy ways of dealing with her. I think that he pushes her buttons, knowing exactly what reaction he will get from her, and then he texts/calls you, tells you about the *incident*, and gets the exact reaction that he's looking for from you, kwim?

This is totally NOT a slam on your kid, because I believe that, overall, both of your children have very kind and caring natures -- on the other hand, even the kindest people can develop unhealthy ways of dealing with problems and it is just a dynamic that I think you should be aware of....

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 10:15 AM, February 27th (Thursday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7944 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
GingerAle
♀ Member
Member # 33822
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

However, I know that he does: All ten-year-olds do, and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.


That is a pretty broad statement to make about all ten year olds and I completely disagree with you. Seems like you are projecting your childhood onto every other child in the world. So we can just agree to disagree on this subject I guess.

I do not advocate burying one's head in the sand, and I don't bury mine. Of course it's our responsibility to teach our kids about drinking, drugs, sex, etc. And to create a safe and comfortable environment for them to discuss anything with us.


My WH (The KISA, NPD) 6 month EA in 2010
2 other EAs in 2012 & 2013
Filed for D 7/2014


Posts: 404 | Registered: Nov 2011
Undefinabl3
♀ Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pass - I really think that you want to hear what you did was the right thing and the right way. You are not, and thinking that how could what you did be wrong.

Anyone here with an NPD exWS can and will sympathize with you, offer up the 'i can totally relate' and there's not much else you can do.

DSS's Bio-Mom is 100% like this, co-dependant on DSS and its basically ruined DSS. We even fought for full custody and was only awarded 50/50. It still didn't matter.

The bottom line is that you can not assert your opinions of your Ex to your kids. Fine all well and great if they make their own about her, but you should not be the one to start them down the road.

And, if you have as much reservation as you do, then you need to look up father's rights groups and see about getting full custody of the kids. Because if what you say is true, living in a 2 room place with them in bunks in one room is better then being emotionally abused.

I am not sure what fear you have that will not allow you to go for full custody is, but I hope that you find the strength to over come it.

In the mean time, be the listener, not the talker and just document everything that you can to help you in any future case.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1717 | Registered: Sep 2012
littlefoggy
♀ Member
Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, February 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi pass,

Can I suggest finding a mentor for your kids? Not necessarily a counselor. But a Big Brother type thing. I think those sorts of relationships are super beneficial for kids.

It seems like you are trying to be that to your kids and a parent and everything (like all of us are!) If someone else could fill the "pal" role, it would free you up to be more parent.

I think we are all just doing the best we can with what we have. I actually think you are doing a pretty good job. I also think you are doing great coming here and asking for advice. I will be the first to admit I have no clue what I am doing. You don't have to take everyone's advice, but listen with an open mind and do what feels right to you.


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 492 | Registered: Nov 2013
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