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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Dealing with H being "in love" with OW
veronique12
♀ Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just read the Why Is Your R Working thread, trying to learn from others who are ahead of me in their journeys and to focus on the positive. I'm still very raw, as D-Day is not that far off and the TT has been hell. And couple that with the fact that my H was in the fog for quite some time, I'm having a hard time understanding how to R.

H wants to R with me and I think that ultimately I want to as well. He has recently started IC, we've been in MC for 2 months, I'm in group IC, and he is showing lots of signs of remorse and realizing how much he hurt me and compromised his own morals. However, I'm really stuck in the EA aspect of his A. The A lasted ~4 months and I saw emails between H and OW where he was telling her he loved her just weeks after it started. The A ended only because I found out about it and even though he was telling me he wanted the A to be over, I could see from his actions that he was in limbo, in the fog, still believing that he might have loved her and that she loved him. For instance, when I found them texting the day I learned of the EA, I flipped out and left the house. He didn't call me to find out how I was. Instead he called her to say that I was flipping out and that they shouldn't talk. That's really hard for me and shows where his loyalty was. The last piece of TT that came out 3 weeks ago was that after I found out about the EA, but when he was still denying the PA, he tried to end it with her, but he ended up going to her house when I was out of town on a business trip and slept with her. She was crying and saying that she loved him and I'm pretty damn sure (though he never admitted it) that he was probably saying that he loved her too, but that they couldn't be together because it wasn't right. He said he thought of it as a last "goodbye" and that he really wanted to be with me. Sounds more like cake eating to me. Shortly after he would cry that he didn't want to lose his children, and to me that looked like he was just staying with me out of obligation.


Now he says he believes he never loved her, that he was lying to himself so that he could accept what he was doing. He even told me very soon after D-Day that he wouldn't have done what he did if he didn't feel strongly about her and if they didn't have a bond. Like that was supposed to make me feel better.

He says he loves me, he never loved her, she just filled an emotional need at the time, he was selfishly enjoying the attention, and now sees her for the manipulative witch that she is. But I say that he really believed in his feelings for OW at the time, so how can he say he wasn't in love with her? I mean, what else is love if not a belief? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

So, I guess my big issues are that I feel like second choice and how do I deal with the fact that he was in love with someone else for a time? I have told him that I can't even be mad at him for that, just sad. This basically hits me squarely in one of my oldest and deepest childhood issues, which is never feeling good enough or worthy enough. I'm angry about the lying and the callousness, but his feelings, how can I be mad that he didn't love me? It was what it was. I'm just not sure how to deal with his feelings then vs his feelings now and the fact that he replaced me with someone else for a time.

I'm fearful about how to push past that and feel good about myself in my relationship. Do I just need to look at it as the old M being dead and that we are just starting from scratch? It's really hard to do that after being together for nearly 20 years.

Not sure there's a question here. Just trying to sort out my feelings.


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 540 | Registered: Jan 2014
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I say that he really believed in his feelings for OW at the time, so how can he say he wasn't in love with her?

I've a similar story. How is he saying he loves her and ignoring me and then later say he never loved her?

As you said, it was only a few weeks in that he was saying that to her. Who acts like that? 12 year olds. I'm not joking. When we are kids, we 'love' our boyfriends/girlfriends immediately. Oh, it's true love. We'll be together for ever and get married. You know how that is. Well, that's the same with these things. It's that puppy love feeling that has more to do with loving the attention and someone wanting you than anything else. It's not real love, at all. In the moment, you think it is, but it's not. Not even close.

I'm not sure if this is making sense, or if I'm explaining it well, but these infatuation/love EAs are just that - a case of a 12 year old popping out of an adult brain. It's all about that feeling that the A gives them, not the AP.

As he crawls farther away from the fog, he should start to feel a little embarrassed for his behaviors. Saying he loves someone in a couple of weeks? That's just ridiculous, and he knows it.

I'm sorry you feel like second choice. I felt like that for so long. It took years to realize that my H was actually very remorseful. It was through years of consistent action, along with me repeating to myself that if he didn't love me, he wouldn't stay for all of this work. He wouldn't make changes. He would just leave, to be with OW or not, he wouldn't stay for the aftermath of an A.

You'll feel better as time moves on. You're correct - love is a feeling. It's how you feel about your H. It's not how you felt about your 6th grade boyfriend, even though when you were in 6th grade you would have sworn on your very life that you and he were deeply in love. Silly, childish kid stuf.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello (( V12)), I can feel the frustration and hurt through the screen. I wrote the other post you refer too.

Now he says he believes he never loved her, that he was lying to himself so that he could accept what he was doing.

I think THIS ^^^ is what you focus on . What is happening NOW. What is he saying now. What is he DOING now. Focus on that.

As opposed to this....

He even told me very soon after D-Day that he wouldn't have done what he did if he didn't feel strongly about her and if they didn't have a bond. Like that was supposed to make me feel better.

What they say after D-Day is FOG. As they come out of the fog, they realize how ludicrous it is. I remember asking my H that first night,
"Do you love her?"
No.
Did you love her?
No.
Did you TELL her you loved her?
Yes. But I didn't mean it.
But she thinks you did. (and that burns my ass!)

WTF?! You cannot LOVE someone based on lies! It wasn't real life. It wasn't built on honesty, friendship and over time.

Focus on what is happening NOW. That time is over. It's done. It hurts to think about. But its done.

V12, I made a list of all of the things I needed to ACCEPT about the A. Him telling her he loved her was one of them. I wrote it all down and put it away. I would look at it every now and then and say, "nope. haven't accept #4, 7, 12, 15, and 24 yet!"

But the more time passed, and the daily remorse he showed and the good actions behind his words and during that time my ability to stay in the present - and DAMN that is SO incredibly hard to do and I failed miserably the first half of the year....then the closer I got to accepting that he could be so selfish, foolish, immature and careless with our lives as a married couple and as a family.

Anyway, keep posting, venting, sorting out your feelings. It's good that you do this.

[This message edited by LA44 at 10:09 AM, March 1st (Saturday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Kyrie
♀ Member
Member # 41825
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, veronique12, do we need to talk! I could have written your post a year ago. I know these thoughts and feelings and I know they are trying to take up permanent residence in your head. Exact same scenario, just different characters. I hope you will take a step to the side with me and look at all of it from a different angle.

If I've learned anything over these last 2 years, it's that my perspective on what my H did is not the same thing as truth. No matter how much I believed my thoughts, feelings, perspective, in reality, there is a whole other perspective at play. Like a deer in headlights, what's happened has you locked in and it's almost impossible to look away.

Your perspective:

he was telling her he loved her just weeks after it started. The A ended only because I found out about it and even though he was telling me he wanted the A to be over, I could see from his actions that he was in limbo, in the fog, still believing that he might have loved her and that she loved him.

Reality:
He was telling her he loved her after just a few weeks because he loved how he was feeling -- about himself. This is what the fog is all about. His feelings had nothing to do with her in particular, they were simply superficial feelings generated by being pursued and desired. So yes, the A may have ended because you found out, but it was going to eventually end no matter what. The fog eventually clears as reality is sure to set in. At the time, he may have believed he loved her/that she loved him, because what else was he to make of his behavior? I can believe in a lot of things when they simply confirm what I am feeling. If I'm feeling it, it must be real, right? Um, no.

Your perspective:

That's really hard for me and shows where his loyalty was.

Reality:
It should be hard for you - but not because he was more faithful or loyal to her than you. Edit out that word "loyalty" because it's going to do nothing but trip you up. His mind was responding to something that's not even in the same realm as loyalty. He rebelled against loyalty and allowed misguided emotions to take over. He was high on the feelings he was getting out of the A. And that had nothing to do with you. That's why we talk about how selfish the behavior is. It's not even about the AP - she was simply a tool to get high off of.

Your perspective:

Shortly after he would cry that he didn't want to lose his children, and to me that looked like he was just staying with me out of obligation.

Reality:
He's torn. He's F'd up. He's attempting to live out two contradictory lives. Edit out the word "obligation." Like "loyalty," you are assigning adult/grown up/responsible qualities to a person who abandoned those things in favor of whatever it was that made him feel desired and wanted. Do you see how the emotions are directed towards him? Again, it's not about you and it's not about her. It's about him responding to a need and doing so is in direct conflict with all the other things he cares about. He is lost.

Your perspective:

He even told me very soon after D-Day that he wouldn't have done what he did if he didn't feel strongly about her and if they didn't have a bond.

Reality:
He wouldn't have done what he did if he didn't feel strongly about how the AFFAIR made him feel. If he felt strongly about her and had a bond, then he'd still be with her now. It was a 4 month fling, not some epic love story, because if it was, he would not give her up. In order to make sense of what he was doing, he came up with all kinds of justifications - mental gymnastics - in order to square what he was doing. How on earth does anyone betray his own children and his committed life partner? Well, it has to be something huge like LOVE, right? That's the conclusion he drew in his fog state. The fog has cleared, the A is over and this is where he is now:
Now he says he believes he never loved her, that he was lying to himself so that he could accept what he was doing.

Your perspective:

But I say that he really believed in his feelings for OW at the time, so how can he say he wasn't in love with her? I mean, what else is love if not a belief?

Reality:
"At the time" is the only correct thing you said here. At the time, he was caught up in feelings and in the response to those feelings that at the time, he decided should be labeled love. "I'm completely throwing away my moral compass, I'm giving up on my own core values, and I am tossing aside everything I believe in to relish in these feelings." The only sane response to this irrational behavior is to assign those feelings to a belief. Otherwise, he wouldn't be able to do it. And you and I both know that there is much, much more to love than this 4 month detour from what he truly believes. Don't use the word love to describe what went on between them. That's the word he used to justify his behavior. You will get incredibly lost and confused attempting to use terms like love to describe something that was completely void of love.

Your perspective:

my big issues are that I feel like second choice and how do I deal with the fact that he was in love with someone else for a time?

There is not a BS on this forum that doesn't feel like a second choice. That's what adultery does to those of us who have been betrayed by the one person we trusted most. Those feelings are powerful and they hurt like hell. But just because you feel those things, does not mean they are true and should be believed. (Are you seeing a recurring theme here?)
for a time
For a time, your H got lost in his own needs and feelings and you became a non-entity. That is such a terrible truth, isn't it? It is the opposite of marital love. For a time, he was absorbed in himself. If you are second to anything, you became second to your H - in his world. How do you deal with the fact that he was in love with someone else? Well, first you deal with the fact that that is not a fact. The fact is: He was in love with the way he felt. Say that out loud: He was in love with the way he felt. Love, real love involves two people giving all of themselves to each other because they care more about the other person than themselves. You know this. He knows this. And you both know it or you wouldn't be together now.

Once you deal with that true fact (and you both rely heavily on IC to help you really get this,)then you deal with the fact that your H royally f*cked up his life, made stupid mistakes and got incredibly lost and is broken. And it is OK to be mad about that. In fact, you will find yourself getting really angry about that. When the people we love do things that hurt themselves as well as all the other things we love, anger is the expected response. When my kid darts out into a parking lot without me and I finally catch him and pull him into me, my first reaction is anger: Don't you ever do that again! You could have gotten hurt! You know you're supposed to hold my hand! And because you love him and you cherished your marriage, you have every right to be sad, to grieve over what he sacrificed.

Your perspective:

but his feelings, how can I be mad that he didn't love me?

Reality:
You can be mad that BECAUSE he loves you, always has and probably always will, he went ahead and allowed his feelings, his own needs, his very self to take priority over everything else. His behavior contradicts his commitment. And you can be mad, sad, hurt, distraught, overwhelmed, etc about that.

And this:

one of my oldest and deepest childhood issues, which is never feeling good enough or worthy enough.

This is what you are going to have work on. This is what you are going to have deal with. Because as long as this is at work within you, nothing your H says or does will be taken at face value. Because of your distorted ideas about yourself, your H's behavior just confirms those thoughts, right? You're going to have to work hard to remove that filter so that you can entertain the idea that his actions are all about him, not about you. That is the reality. But it's going to take a lot of work on your part to believe it.

And finally, this:

I'm fearful about how to push past that and feel good about myself in my relationship. Do I just need to look at it as the old M being dead and that we are just starting from scratch?

Fear will keep you stuck. It will keep you blind to the truth. It will become a wedge between you and your healing and between you and reconciling with your H. You are going to have to work up courage every single day to push past fear so that you can feel good about yourself and your relationship. What is dead is the ways you used to see and perceive your H, yourself and the world. Your M is alive, but not well. It's taken a grave hit, but if you are together now, it's not dead yet. In the course of some 20 years, you now have these 4 months or so when your H took a detour - a detour from you, your M, your family, your history and most importantly, from himself. No, I don't think you are starting from scratch. I suspect you have 2 decades of love to build from. His A may have wiped out trust, and you'll have to build that back from scratch, but only you can decide if it wiped out everything else. Part of making that decision will require that you challenge these thoughts you've put forth in this post.

I'm now looking over this response and see that I've taken over. Please forgive me for running with this. But I just hear my old self all in your thinking and I know for a fact that that way of thinking made it almost impossible to heal and move forward. If I can help someone avoid falling deeper into despair from this awful mess, I'll do it with all that I have.

veronique12 - learn as much as you can about infidelity and affairs, challenge your perspective, don't give into your own inner demons, love yourself enough to stay with the process. I promise that if you do that and your H continues to work just as hard with his own issues, you two have a fighting chance. I really believe that.

PEACE


Me: BW (47), WH (48)
Married 24 yrs, 2 teenagers
DD#1 01.20.12 When diagnosed w/STD
Told it was 15 mo. PA that ended 6 years ago
DD#2 04.06.14 Truth: PA was 2yrs/8mo
Separated for 6 weeks
Reconciling and healing now

Posts: 201 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: southeast USA
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kyrie, wow, amazing post.

veronique12, what Kyrie wrote is spot on. Read her post again and again. The mind of a cheater is not a normal place.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG Kyrie. I always appreciate your posts, but this one is getting saved and needs to be my healing bible for a while. Thank you for putting all that out here for those of us struggling.

V12, I can relate completely to your feelings. I am still struggling with this, yet we are light years ahead of where we were a year ago. My H was foggy for a LONG time , even though he decided he wanted to R. Just in January, he got pissed during IC that he "was being told" his feelings for AP weren't "real". I re-iterated that the feelings are real, but didn't take place in the real world. And a 23 year relationship can't compete with that "perfect world". Just makes my head explode. He had really been working hard at this and I think is finally finding remorse. Like you, I wonder if I'm just wonderfully patient or so lacking in self-respect and belief in my own worth that I've waited this long.

Just wanted to say-- I feel your pain. I do. And it sucks.

On the positive, he is finally working extra hard on R and the sparkle has returned to his eyes when he looks at me. This is a long hard road. But I believe we can still make it. We both want an incredible M-- it's not worth it otherwise. I feel we're both committed to making that happen.

I wish you the very best. Great thread. Great responses. Thanks, SI peeps. You're the best.

[This message edited by StillStanding1 at 11:52 AM, March 1st (Saturday)]


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 710 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great post Kyrie! Hope it is helpful to you Veronique and others who feel they are in the same boat.

Two things from Kyrie's post really stand out for me reading this through those in early R. The first is,

How do you deal with the fact that he was in love with someone else? Well, first you deal with the fact that that is not a fact. The fact is: He was in love with the way he felt. Say that out loud: He was in love with the way he felt.

V, every ounce of your being needs to believe this. The second comment, V wrote....
one of my oldest and deepest childhood issues, which is never feeling good enough or worthy enough.
and Kyrie said....
This is what you are going to have work on. This is what you are going to have deal with. Because as long as this is at work within you, nothing your H says or does will be taken at face value. Because of your distorted ideas about yourself, your H's behavior just confirms those thoughts, right? You're going to have to work hard to remove that filter so that you can entertain the idea that his actions are all about him, not about you.

Oh so true! This is a key issue to work out in IC bc if you keep going back to that place in your head, you may find yourself asking these very same questions 4, 6-12 months from now.

[This message edited by LA44 at 12:46 PM, March 1st (Saturday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Freebygrace
♀ Member
Member # 42484
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't have great answers, but I really think that it's the hardest thing to deal with....you were married to me, but in love with someone else. While I was loving you, you loved her? It's a big thing to get past.

I don't know how to R. I obviously suck at getting past things and letting it go.


Me: BS 45
Him: fWH 48
OW: my BFF well not forever apparently
Lots of kids, married 22 years
DDay: 01/16/01
On the fence about R or D?

Posts: 109 | Registered: Feb 2014
Morhurt
♀ Member
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, thank you Kyrie!

[This message edited by Morhurt at 1:51 PM, March 1st (Saturday)]


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 943 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
Katz13
♀ Member
Member # 41886
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ThAnk you Veronique! I am in a very similar situation so know that you are not alone. Thanks Kyrie for the amazing post. My MC said the same things about affair love and I couldn't really wrap my head around it. These posts really helped me today. Thanks to all.

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I bookmarked this. I need to read it over and over and over. I tell myself these things sometimes but the the doubt and fear push out all logic. I need to think about the A with my brain and let my heart hear what WH is saying now.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel EXACTLY the way that you do, I have been asking all over the forums about how they can say that they love their AP but do quickly decide that this was NOT the case and they actually do love us, after they had convinced themselves during the affair that they do not. I have no advice for you, I am sorry. Just wanted to let you know that you are completely understood, and I hope that you are ultimately able to find so me peace around this issue. It is so hard, isn't it???


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 642 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kyrie - you may have just saved me a year of therapy! Beautifully said. We were just having the "I know you don't love her now, but you said you loved her" talk an hour ago. It makes no sense, and you do such a good job of explaining something nonsensical.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2055 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Kyrie
♀ Member
Member # 41825
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, March 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm glad I could help. Funny thing is, I'm sure I'll need to re-visit my own words in the future. Maintaining this perspective is HARD.

Something that helped me was to write out my interpretation of him and the A and then he would respond to each thing in writing (just like I did in this post.) And we've had to do this activity several times. Writing it out rather than talking it out helped us stay on point. It helped him see the places where I made faulty assumptions or had drawn the wrong conclusions. It helped him get a better handle on the depths of my hurt. It helped me to read the words, "I did not love her," along with a lot of other things that described what was reality and what was actually my fear's interpretation of reality.

We can get ourselves into a lot of trouble when we take our feelings/perspectives and turn them into truths. Once you say it like it's true, there's no way to hear or perceive things differently. And we all know that you can't go forward with lies and 1/2 truths.


Me: BW (47), WH (48)
Married 24 yrs, 2 teenagers
DD#1 01.20.12 When diagnosed w/STD
Told it was 15 mo. PA that ended 6 years ago
DD#2 04.06.14 Truth: PA was 2yrs/8mo
Separated for 6 weeks
Reconciling and healing now

Posts: 201 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: southeast USA
bitterbetrayal
♀ Member
Member # 26326
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, March 2nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brilliant post Kyrie. Awesome and so helpful to newbies.


ME.BS 55
Him.WS 55 and a priest!
D-DAY 12/07/09
D-DAY-2 14/08/09
MARRIED 25 YEARS ON 25/08/09
BEEN TOGETHER 28 YEARS
TWO CHILDREN 20 and 22.

Posts: 160 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
FeelingSoMuch
♂ Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, March 2nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, I'm a "second choice" too.

The posters here are correct, when good people have affairs and they know it's wrong, they lie to themselves to justify their actions.

Worse, they believe their own lies.

You're not his second choice, nor am I my WW's second choice. Even if he had left you for a month and then asked to come back you would still be his first choice.

Your husband's actions were brutally selfish, but it seems to me that he knows you're the best partner for him.

And yes, that last time they were together, that was cake-eating.

Stay strong.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 509 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
olwen
♀ Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, March 2nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks soooo much Kyrie. Even though my fwh didn't say he loved her I couldn't really understand him when he talked about it all being about how she made him feel and not about her.

My perception was that if he wanted how she made him feel then he must have wanted her, right? No, apparently.

It seems such an alien concept that he could care about that but not about her. You really helped clarify that for me and understand what he means so much better.

I don't struggle with him wanting her but with the fact he could throw it all away for someone he 'didn't' want. He admits he used her.

He had doubts about what he wanted for a while of course, me cos he loved me, her cos she made him feel good, to be single and have no responsibilities, but it wasn't a serious 'I want to be with her' more which is the better option He wanted it all. He eventually decided to stay with me - but only if I changed cos of course the fact he was cheating was all my fault in his eyes- but to keep her on the side as his little admirer. Cake eating. It blew up in his face though.

He even said if he was single he wouldn't have been so interested in her, he may have had a fling with her but nothing more. He would have looked for better. So why was she good enough to risk all we had for. She wasn't. she was just convenient.

Of course he looks back now with self disgust and can't believe he thought that way but this thread has really helped me understand more so thanks for that.

In some ways it would have made more sense to me if he had thought he lurved her. The way he used us both just seems so callous to me. I guess it's all selfish and callous though whatever the thinking behind it.

[This message edited by olwen at 11:26 AM, March 2nd (Sunday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 804 | Registered: Jul 2013
veronique12
♀ Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, March 2nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your responses are all so helpful. Kyrie, thank you. I will be reading your post over and over. It really means a lot that you took the time to break things down for me. I feel like there's an internal war--one part of me gets what you described and everything that I've been reading about affairs; the other part is all fear and doubt, "old brain" stuff. The distinction made bw my understanding of reality vs H's version vs truth (if there really is a truth) is important and I know I need to work on accepting H's perspective. That's an area that repeatedly comes up when we talk and something I def need to work on in IC.

LA, I like the idea of writing out items that I need to examine and attempt to come to terms with. I often feel so overwhelmed by all the individual pieces, events, emotions that I end up in fight or flight panic. Maybe writing them and looking at them in smaller doses can help me cope better.

Lots of love to you all. Thank you.


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 540 | Registered: Jan 2014
Dreamland
♀ Member
Member # 40488
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, March 2nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, Wow, thank you Kyrie! I'm not a newbie and this is a truely awesome post. V12 I can attest to the being stuck.. I hope you can be better than me and move forward. I still get hung up on all the things you brought up. Especially the second choice thing and that he felt so much for her but still denies any feelings but what else would cause such selfish 24/7 communication with OW over being with DD and myself during such times that involved DD serious health problems. I just have a lot of issues he too says the A was winding down and it would have died on its own. But I found out and he kept meeting with her after I first found out. I didn't know about NC then. Plus I didn't believe he was cheating .. How blind huh. Find a condom in the car and you still believe they aren't cheating. I think that angers me too. How utterly blind and stupid we are to believe the bold lies infront of us. I'm embarrassed.
So Kyrie thanks again we all can learn from your post 😊


Me-BS 50 Him-WH 47, DD17
Together since 1993, Married 19 yrs
DDay 3/12,4/12,7/12 EA-PA OW - 25 single husband chasing bastard whore

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, March 2nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopefully, in time, his feelings for OW will fade, change. I know mine certainly did for AP. While I may still slightly grieve the friendship prior to any wrong doing (still working on total indifference), I do not grieve the affair or the warm feelings I once had for AP. While I may have once said the A was bittersweet, it's now just bitter. Spit, rinse, repeat.

I tend to think there is hope for the majority of foggy WS's as I was probably as foggy and hung-up as a WS can get.

As a FWS, I cringe now when I think about what I gave up, what I ruined, what I tarnished.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 (NIV)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 4:46 PM, March 2nd (Sunday)]


"I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne."

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