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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: the world I made
PrideFallen
♂ Member
Member # 42002
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like Lovedyoumore, I was struck by the anger comments. I'm sure that this situation didn't go from zero to wine glass in 4.5 seconds, so I assume that some (most?) of your anger may be from the overall situation.

Nonetheless, it worries me a little that you were so angry that you left to stay with your parents, and are having trouble working up the will power to go home.

Don't misunderstand, there are levels of treatment from BSs that are unacceptable and WSs are withing their rights to stand up for themselves. That said, as WSs I think we have the greater responsibility to step away from anger, and reach out rather than escalate.

I don't have anywhere near enough info about your situation to really form an opinion, but it seems likely that anger on both your parts is a big issue. The more you can reduce your own anger, it will bring the overall level down and that can only help.


Me: WH
Her: BW
D-Day June 2013
Working on R

Posts: 55 | Registered: Jan 2014
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you read the 5 love languages?

Sure did. She had acts of service and quality time as her top two and I try to deliver on that. She has recently started saying that she thinks she may be more of a gifts person. As I mentioned, I am recently unemployed so there's a disconnect there.

Also, I have forgiven my husband. I still feel anger, hurt and pain. Sometimes a lot, sometimes less. Forgiveness doesn't mean all that magically goes away.

Point well taken. I do believe, though, that the ability to forgive is the key to the pain and angwer starting to subside. Does that make sense?


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm really not trying to say that. I think the truth lies somewhere between how i say things and how she hears them.

Do you two ever perform argument autopsies? BH and I do, and they're so valuable. After a conversation or argument when one (or both) of you leave hurt, sad, or angry...later on when you've both calmed down, do a post-mortem assessment of the conversation. Share your perspective, and accept the other's as true and valid. Just yesterday BH told me my answers to some A-related questions he'd asked the previous day had saddened him. Not so much my words as my demeanor. Even though I wasn't "trying to be defensive," I accepted that he saw it that way, and his perspective helped me discover something about myself.

You break her heart into pieces, break her trust, break her self esteem, break her life, break her peace, break her memories, and on and on, and you are withholding because of a wine glass?

This defense of violence is unconscionable. Had she hit his naked arm instead of a clothed leg, he could've been badly cut. The lack of physical injury is irrelevant anyway. She hit him. That is never acceptable, and LRH did the right thing, the safe thing for both of them, by removing himself from the situation. He has every right to be angry about it. Just as his BW has every right to be hurt, angry, or sad. She wants to smash a wine glass against a wall, or punch a pillow? Fine. But minimizing her violent act, and criticizing him for abandoning her? It's offensive.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1249 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but it seems likely that anger on both your parts is a big issue. The more you can reduce your own anger, it will bring the overall level down and that can only help.

Agreed, and thank you PrideFallen. No, it did not go from zero to wine glass in 4.5 seconds. It escalated over about an hour and I played a big part in the escalation.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think its important that I reiterate that violence of any kind is VERY out of character for Mrs LRH and I do believe that she did not really intend to hurt me. Yes, it could have turned out to be a serious injury if it played out in some other way, and yes, it was the wrong thing to do, and yes, im angry about it, but I want everyone to know that my wife is not a violent person.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will say during a major TT admission I threw a remote at a WALL and burned some of his clothes in our driveway but never touched my husband. I wanted to, oh how I did. I can understand that pain and anger, but I never did it.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted to, oh how I did

I really do get this. Its not the right thing to do and will certainly complicate an already complicates situation, but I can absolutely understand a BS being angry enough to want to hurt their WS.

For the first year after d-day I probably would not have reacted like this. I was still very much in the mindset that I deserved whatever I got back then. The process if examining my why and finding the weak points in my personality have left me less tolerant of things like this or even name-calling. Standing up for myself seems to cause a lot of tension between Mrs LRH and me. It could be the way I do it. I'm still learning how.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, here goes. I'm going to head back home in a couple of minutes, try to make her a nice dinner and hopefully we can get back on track. I feel like I abandoned her at a bad time and I need to fix it.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Standing up for myself seems to cause a lot of tension between Mrs LRH and me. It could be the way I do it. I'm still learning how.

It's hard. As we change, let's have compassion for our spouses, and recognize that they need some time to adjust to the "new" us.

Have compassion for yourself, too. As we learn new communication skills, we're bound to make mistakes. That's why I'm a proponent of the argument autopsy.

Ultimately, you cannot control BW. You can only control yourself. She calls you nasty names and you feel hurt or angry? Instead of "standing up for yourself," per se, try saying "Ouch." Let her know that even though her words hurt, you recognize she's probably venting out her pain and frustration, that her feelings are valid, and you're so sorry you hurt her.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1249 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
toughernow
♀ Member
Member # 40915
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will be thinking of you, and Mrs. LRH and hoping for the best.


BS (Me) - 47
WS(Him) -48

Married 23 years - together for 29 years


DDay - June 10th 2012 then TT'd-June 2012 - July 2012 (and beyond????)
2 amazing children

"Understanding love is one of the hardest things in life." - Fred Rogers


Posts: 98 | Registered: Oct 2013
Softcentre
Member
Member # 39166
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, a coupleof things:

1. Violence directed at another person is not ok...but it sounds like maybe, it just landed near you rather than being thrown at you? That is different, but you both need to recognise how serious it is that it got to that point.And you both need to work out away to stop the argument escalating like that again. But just to reiterate...violence is not ok. And if it was deliberately directed at you, you need to hear that it was not your fault.

2. You say that you're committed to R...but didn't you tell her during the argument that you gave up on R months ago?

3. You are not responsible for what she thinks. That smacks of control or co-dependency issues, or possibly a martyr complex. Yes, you made a whole big mess and caused her a whole world of pain. Yes, you need to be there to support her and work together to rebuild your M. But you cannot 'fix' her. Your BW has to work on her feelings, herself. You can only work on yourself. I do wonder...could it be that you're focusing on her issues, to avoid looking at yourself? Could that be why she doesn't feel able to commit to R?

[This message edited by Softcentre at 4:31 PM, March 8th, 2014 (Saturday)]


Me: BW
Him: STBXWH 'The Arse' likes strong but broken OW
OW - EA - 'Holy Chick'
COW - Suspected EA/PA 'The Ambassador'
COW - Susp EA 'The Baker'
COW - EA/PA 'Fat Bottomed Girl'
COW - Susp EA 'MiniMe'

Posts: 1075 | Registered: May 2013 | From: UK
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Softcentre

1. She did hit me in thenshin with the glass, but she says and I believe, she did not mean to. She aimed for the floor and my keg was in the way. Fortunately, no harm done.

2. Not so much gave up on R, but I'm guilty of becoming somewhat complacent. I've told her over and over that I'm not giving up, but its true that I haven't been as "all in" as I should be

3. I am inclined to be a martyr. I'm looking at that. Good call.

Everybody...we're back under the same roof and sorting this out. We hugged when i got home. Its been so long. Thank youi so much for your support and advice. I'm open to more if you have it.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No offense, but have ya'll considered that drinking may be part of the issue? It was the wine glass trying to be thrown past the keg that got me there.

Also, sometimes we BSes can think that the WS bears all the burden of the healing -- and needs to do all the work. That isn't sustainable, nor desirable.

Don't take abuse, own your stuff, but your WS has to take an active part in the healing. She can't just sit back and wait for you to make it all better. That seems to be what you are insinuating that she does. We all have to get much smarter about marriage after infidelity -- both partners end up changing, even though the responsibility of the affair is on the WS.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2079 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
LivingLearning
♀ Member
Member # 42637
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I can only speak for myself here, but the one thing that I fear the most as a BS is being abandoned. When fWH would walk away from me to focus on his pain...that's when he failed me."

^^This (I don't know yet how to enter in texts from others)

As a BW, I have to point this out regularly. Good for you for going back and trying to mend the situation. I agree with all others about continuing to find new ways to woo her. And know that just because you tried it once, does not mean you shouldn't try again. Sometimes we have to put up boundaries because we are scared to let you in in fear of being hurt again. Continue to be strong and be there for her. Sometimes I say I don't want my WH to be near me, when really I do (and sometimes that is when I need him the most). I do it because I am affraid to let my guard down and seem vulnerable. It is hard to be vulnerable after an A happens. Be patient with her. She deserves it.


Living and learning how to move forward
Me: BGf
Him: WBf
Dday: 02/2013

Posts: 116 | Registered: Mar 2014
IsthereEVERanend
♂ Member
Member # 42216
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Long road home; no stop sign soooooo.......7 months is nothing. I didn't touch my wife for more than 7 years after a period of HB. Its tough on a BS sometimes to get to the point of becoming able to make that initial contact all over again.
Just don't give up if you are serious about R.
Good luck and best wishes to you.


Me: Older than dirt
FWW 63
DD 8/1990 She confessed to a 2 month ea/pa
Asked forgiveness but volunteered to leave. No way was I going to give her the boot

The eight most feared words used together in the English language: We need to talk. Th


Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Utah
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No offense, but have ya'll considered that drinking may be part of the issue?

Funny story about this...before we had the couiple of drinks that night we talked about how sometimes our conversations get messy when we drink and maybe we shouldn't have any serious discussions once we have a cocktail.

Now we're thinking maybe we shouldn't have a cocktail if there's any chance of a serious discussion.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7 months is nothing. I didn't touch my wife for more than 7 years

I get what you're saying. I can imagine how difficult it must be sometimes for a BS to feel and show affection for the WS.

Not for a lack of wanting to R, but that wouikd be waaaay too long to wait for any kind of physical contact for me. Fortunately, I really believe that it would be too long for her as well.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
refuz2bavictim
♀ Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 6:41 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that wouikd be waaaay too long to wait for any kind of physical contact

What is your "time" limit then?

Keep in mind that for a BS, any limits imposed on the "I'll do anything to fix this" isn't well received.

I'm not saying you don't or shouldn't have a say in how your life is lived, and what you will or won't accept, it's just that limits and conditions imposed by the WS on a situation they caused in the first place should be communicated to the BS. I for one, would have held back on my commitment to R, had my FWh put conditions on elements that were involved in the A, or upon my healing timeline. Part of the healing timeframe involved, was the sex, especially considering that sex is a major component of an A.

His lack of limits and conditions, along with his I will "do anything to fix this" attitude, aided my healing, and allowed me to meet him at the 100% investment in R.

I met him at HIS commitment level. Maybe your wife is meeting you at yours?


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is your "time" limit then?

I don't have one. Seven years just seems to be an awfully long time. That doesn't mean that I could'nt be sitting here after seven years without sex. It also doesn't mean I would give up if that happened. Both of us have talked about how long its been and that we're not happy about it, so I think we're going to work it out before seven years.

This kind of brings back the point of what is really expected of a WS sometimes. If my wife came to me and said that we will have a sexless marriage from now on because of what I did, I would absolutely understand why she would do that. She would also understand that I would not want that for the rest of my life.

There seems to be a skewed view of what makes a marriage after infidelity. There were posters who suggested that I should be OK with the wine glass incident...that I deserve it. It took several posts on this thread before 20wrongs pointed out that physical lashing out is wrong. Many of the BSs who posted here, and whom I truly appreciate, were slow to say that the wine glass shouldn't have been thrown, and some have even said that it wasn't wrong for her to throw it. Even a mod or guide on here suggested in another thread that me making an issue of having a wine glass thrown at me was proof that I was looking to shift blame to my wife. Huh?

We are all guilty of this. WSs are often thought of as a different level of human. We are expected to accept treatment that, if the roles were reversed, would bring cries of "abuse" "call the cops" and "leave.". I understand that a certain amount of tough treatment and the 180 are absolutely necessary when dealing with a new and/or foggy WS, especially shortly after d-day. I, as a remorseful WH, and I really am, have come a long way from the habits and thoughts that led to my A. Many WSs on here have. None of us have to tolerate what we won't tolerate or accept what we can't accept, WSs and BSs alike. I can say to my W that seven years would be far too long without sex and accept that if she needs seven years without sex, then one of us will call it a dealbreaker.

I'm not finished doing my work, but I've done enough to know that I am allowed to have expectations of my marriage and can set limits on how I will be treated. I'm fortunate that my W is not really a violent person, not unrealistic with what she expects me to tolerate. To be honest, she was quicker to express that what she did was wrong than many people on here were, and she not only apologized (as did I for my behavior) but she did it in my love language (the hug.)

I guess I said all of that to remind all of us that WSs have feelings and boundaries too, and that they are just as deserving of respect as a human being as anyone else, and that the further a WS gets into doing their work, the more important it becomes to remember this. Our ICs are telling us to set limits and enforce our boundaries, too.

I really hope that didn't sound too much like a tirade.

I would again like to thank everyone, ESPECIALLY the BSs, who responded.

BSs who take the time to help WSs on these forums are the definition of grace and kindness as far as I'm concerned...whether we agree or not your input is valued and welcome.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

longroadhome,

I've read through this thread, and without doing so again, I think you may have misinterpreted some of the comments. I didn't see anyone saying that throwing the glass was ok, or that you deserved it. I'm not going to go double check that, so there may have been one, but when I read your post, it seems that if a person wasn't saying that it absolutely was flat out wrong, then it was ok. There is something else.

As a WS that wants R, you are asking your BS to understand that you cheated, that you are remorseful, and that you will not do it again. Understand - that's the one. It read to me that many posters, while not cheering for more wine glasses to be thrown, seemed to be saying that you may be able to understand why your BS did something that is not acceptable, and by your own admission, out of character. This is not to say that it's an ok action, or that you need to accept it, but perhaps some empathy for the confusion that a BS feels and that it can unfortunately drive a person to do things that are out of character and unacceptable.

There was alcohol involved, and a heated escalation that you admit you helped escalate. None of us know what was said, or how it escalated, and nothing would make a person say "Oh, well then, it's good she threw glass at you." it can help fully understand the mindset of a person when a full picture is presented. Regardless, you did say there was quite a long, escalating discussion before this happened.

I just wanted to offer a different possibility, one that isn't so black and white.

I'm not advocating abuse of any kind. I just think that many of the posters here may have been painted with a brush that says that a WS must accept anything a BS feels like doing. I don't believe that is true. I think maybe it's easier for a BS to understand how a person can get to the point of throwing a wine glass. Not saying it's a good thing, or that you just need to take it, but that a person, when mentally shaken, is capable of things that they aren't normally capable of.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
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