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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: the world I made
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Poor choices are still poor choices. I made some HUGE poor choixes, so I get it. Nothing justifies what I did. There is no reasoning that can make it OK. Are you as a BS allowed to hold yourself to an different standard?

Nope, I am and will be held accountable for ALL my choices. By myself first. Everyone should be. No one is exempt.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nope, I am and will be held accountable for ALL my choices. By myself first. Everyone should be. No one is exempt.

Bravo, and thank you 5454real. This is exactly my point. This is exactly one of the things I'm so proud of my W for...because even with people telling her that it was OK to throw the glass, that I deserved it, etc, SHE continued to say no, it was wrong to do that.

I just fear that some (not all by any means) BSs start to feel that whatever they say or do, especially pertaining to their WS, is justified because of their pain. That, my friends is what wayward thinking is...that's how we all got here.

[This message edited by longroadhome at 1:58 PM, March 9th (Sunday)]


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some...BSs start to feel that whatever they say or do, especially pertaining to their WS, is justified because of their pain. That...is wayward thinking

IMO timing is an important consideration. In the first, IDK, 6-12 months? The BS should get a ton of latitude. It's important for a BS to vent out his/her anger, and it's important for we WS to "hear their pain" instead of focusing on their words.

But it's also important for both partners to be honest about their feelings, and to validate each others' feelings. Validation doesn't equal agreement, it just means, "Yeah, I can see how you would feel that way." So I can see why a BS would scream obscenities at their WS, be tempted to throw things, etc. But the WS also has every right to feel hurt by that, and say so!

If R is to succeed, ultimately the hurtful words need to stop and/or be atoned for. To answer your OP, yes, both spouses need to be "all in." Hopefully this incident, and the post-mortem analysis, will bring you two together.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t/j

20,

The BS should get a ton of latitude. It's important for a BS to vent out his/her anger, and it's important for we WS to "hear their pain" instead of focusing on their words.

I don't disagree with any of what you are saying, yet I want to reiterate what I said before. I am responsible for my actions. I accept and take responsibility for them. Lord knows I am far from perfect and there are things in my life that I am not proud of, yet they are and remain mine. My responsibility to atone and make amends where I have crossed lines. I don't want latitude for behavior that is inherently unacceptable. Deliberately causing hurt to another human being just because I am hurting, while understandable, remains mine to own.

t/j

LRH,

SHE continued to say no, it was wrong to do that.

Awesome


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
outside4me
♂ Member
Member # 42430
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here. I don't disagree with the idea that BS should get some latitude to vent/get the bile out, but totally agree with 5454Real in that everyone is responsible for their own actions. Everyone experiences emotions... its what you choose to do about the emotion that matters. I might have attraction towards another woman, but I put up boundaries so it doesn't degrade into a betrayal of my marriage vows. I might be angry with my WW, but I don't call her names or hit her. One doesn't have control over thoughts and emotions, but we certainly do have control over what we do, and are accountable for our actions, IMHO.

Posts: 218 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Colorado
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Deliberately causing hurt to another human being just because I am hurting, while understandable, remains mine to own.

That statement beautifully sums up what I hope we can all take away from this thread. And SI, and life in general.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
k94ever
♀ Member
Member # 11176
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At some point in their recovery, BS's MUST make the decision to move out of their comfort zone of being hurt and start living again.

Hanging on to that hurt keeps you trapped and reliving the betrayal.

I'm not saying to get over it, rather we have to learn to let it (the betrayal) become a part of our story and learn to live again.

k9


BS: 56
WS: 53
Betrayed: 23 years
Affairs: 14 (2 lasted 3 months. Rest were ONS)
WS died: 16 May 2011
Do not stay in your hurt forever. Choose to move out of it.

Posts: 6580 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: Wisconsin
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

5454, outside, k9

Brilliant! I hope that I can attain your level of understanding - I'm working on it. Owning your actions in the face of pain is the kind of thing that keeps me in awe of the BSs on this forum...including Mrs LRH, who is right now on the couch with the cat laying on her giving her a "kitty hug" and talking in her "kitty voice.". The cat people know what I'm talking about.

Moments like this are when my heart breaks the most for the pain I caused her.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hanging on to that hurt keeps you trapped and reliving the betrayal.

Truth!

This is exactly the kind of thing that I wish for Mrs LRH...to let go of the pain and just find some peace within herself. I'll remember how badly I treated her long enough for the both of us.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Shayna71
♀ Member
Member # 42105
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, let me say, while reading this entire thread the things that stuck out to me in the end was how your comments about the thrown wine glass evolved. First you just mentioned that you were angry that she threw it at you (and I can get how you were, but I think you might have been more upset that she was so emotionally not her self that she threw it) Then as people started to say how wrong it was, how physical abuse is never to be tolerated, how she has to own her actions, etc., you focused on how she is NOT like this, how you both played a part in your conversation getting to that point, how alcohol played a part, again and again how this is not what your wife's character is, and how she explained she didn't mean to hit you, and was sorry. As a BS, it made me feel like you were defending her, making sure people knew what kind of a person she was, wanting everyone to understand that she wasn't like this before. That's what all BS want. They want to know that there partner has their back, and you obviously do.

I just really need some help and insight. I'm losing her and I don't know what to do from here. She can't get past the anger and sadness that I caused her. She can't see me as anything other than the person who hurt her. I can't find a way to not be hurt when I am defined over and over only by the worst thing I've ever done.

I hope I can help with this. We are only 5 months from DDay, and sometimes I feel like I'm going to "jinx" myself by posting. I think we are doing really well. I have all the typical issues with trust, and triggers, and all that, but H has done everything he can to make things right, and continues to. I thought on DDay when I read that R can take 6 months to 2 years how ridiculously LONG that seemed. no WAY was it going to take me that long. I know now how wrong I was, but I feel like we don't' go from 0 on DDay to 100 in X amount of time. It gets better little by little. A little less mistrust, a little less crying, a little less anger, a little more affection, etc.

I see many BS on here that say they were on the fence for months, or a year, or even longer, so I can see it is valid but for me it wasn't acceptable. I don't see how someone could be undecided for so long. I totally get needing time for clearer heads to prevail, but after awhile aren't you just wasting your time? Your energy and effort has to go somewhere. You have to be focused on something, at least I did. Either working on R, or working on D. When I start questioning myself, it is FEAR, plain and simple. Fear that letting him in again, letting down my guard, putting MY emotions IN again, will get me hurt again.

I can't speak for you wife, but as a BS I can say this: I feel the most confident when I feel my husbands engagement fully. I am most hopeful, and most positive, when he is obvious about his motivations and feelings. It's hard for him to express his feelings, at least the ones that hurt. He didn't get at first that I needed to hear some things again and again and AGAIN, because they do "bounce off". We believed you when you said them before, but you were lying, so now you're going to need to say them ALOT before we can really feel them. "I love you" is one, so is "I'm committed", but the biggest one is "I'm SO SORRY" It also helps to hear from you WHY you are here with me...what makes ME special to you...tell her exactly what you admire, respect, like, love about her.

As far as the gifts thing goes, I realize you are out of work, but I doubt that your wife means "I want some expensive jewelry and a new car". I think she means, "I want you to show me that you get me, that you know what means something to me, that you can be thoughtful and take the time and effort to make a gesture to me." You KNOW your wife. What would mean something to her? Maybe a book she would enjoy, or a framed picture of your family, or a picnic lunch on the weekend? My favorite would be a long letter from my H. You can come up with something that doesn't cost alot of money, but she values greatly.

IMO - If she didn't still care, she wouldn't have thrown the glass, she would have downed it, refilled it, and walked out of the room.

One more thing - i have never in my adult life beef physically violent with anyone, or even come close. A few months after DDay, I say this and H says, "Yes, you slapped me" I guess I slapped him in the face on DDay. He was saying how awful he was, how he was just a bad person, and basically feeling sorry for himself, and I slapped him and told him to stop feeling sorry for himself and quit making excuses. Not hard, I guess, but enough to get his attention. To this day, I have no memory of the slap, and only a vague recollection of that part of the conversation. I'm not saying violence is excusable, but there ARE extreme conditions when peoples mental condition plays a role in their ability to make decisions, or control themselves.

Good luck to you 2

[This message edited by Shayna71 at 2:16 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


Me: BW 46
Him: WH 42
3 month EA and PA w/a mutual friend
DDay 09/20/2013
Married over 20 years
DS 26, DS, 19 DD, 18
Currently in R

Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Indiana
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, Shayna, for all of the great insight and suggestions. I'm glad you fimdnyourself able to fully commit to R after such a short time.

Yes, it's VERY important to me that everyone understand what kind of person she is, and also that she feel comfortable that I represent her fairly. Just because I was pissed at the wine glass thing and needed to give us both a little space in the moment doesn't mean I consider her abusive or even a risk to be around.

In fact, I still really LIKE being around her!

[This message edited by longroadhome at 2:59 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Topic Posts: 71
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