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User Topic: ok guys remind me
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to keep reality and denial in check. I have a bad habit of, "if I don't see it, its not happening". For 2 yrs I was able to see ws google searches which showed ow facebook 3 or 4 times a day. Pretty sure he was somehow communicating thru facebook. I'm pretty sure he's never not talked to her since DD2009. The things in his web history were things he would only know, if he talked to her. Vacation pix, her pornhub pix, not things just anyone would know. There have been spurts of what I thought was R for a few months at a time, then back to no sex, distant, grumpy. So I decided on DD2, 2 yrs ago when I found web history and came to the conclusion the A never ended, and that I did not want him any longer. They're relationship was a lot of texting,sexting, pic exchange, and hooking up when they could. I know he was very much infatuated with her but because he's so very careful and she is not the crazy bs contacting type of ow, most of my info I got from bluffing him by acting like I had evidence, then him apologizing. He swears it was never pa but I know its a lie. We are talking about something that's gone on for about 8 yrs now.
My point I'm getting to. As of last month, he got a new phone with a diff and. I can't see anything now. I used to check everyday because I needed to see it to stay on track with my decision to D in 2015.. He's really good at trying to make me think things are good. He always talks about our future. When he's being a dick, its so much easier to focus on my future alone but when he's being nice, I feel like my suspicions are not real. Like its all in my head. He's been really cool and calm for awhile now. He's trying to be affectionate with me but I feel like I bristle up when he tries. Although I think he's a good looking guy, even sexy, I don't want to touch him. I no longer feel comfortable around him. The other night I had a towel around me after I showered. I was going to get dressed and he walked in. I kept the towel up and he got this weird look when I said, can u step out while I get dressed. I feel weird even saying this but it felt like a stranger had walked in on me.
I had my plan. Although I care about him, I just don't have the feelings for him that a wife should. My fear is, what if he's ended it with her, what if he wants to R with me. I wanted it to continue so I could leave when the time comes. Then I feel guilt setting in although. I know that's just ridiculous. I guess I just have to be mad to make a move and. I have dreaded if the day came where he did stop seeing her because I know ite going to be harder for me during peaceful times.
I am co dependent and I've read the books so I know where this is headed, me feeling responsible for his well being.
So I guess Im wanting to be reminded why I am here in the first place, what brought me here, and all the posts I've put on SI about how miserable I've been. Why do I feel the need to let him steer the ship again. Ok he's being nice, sooo plans have changed, get on board with this one now. If by any chance he really did do what was necessary, if he really was NC, I just think its too late. I know I would be so mad at myself later and would prob be a miserable person forever.
Do you guys think this new Mr ostrich is just an act to pacify me, so I won't be suspicious? Geez I sound so wishy washy..this is what happens, this is when I start feeling crazy. Why can't he just be a dick, its familiar, its predictable, its what.I know. Dammit!! I can't tell you how many times I've seen that fucking rejected little puppy dog look in the last month.
2x4 my ass...I'm ready, I need it

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 3:57 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5171 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
nowiknow23
♀ Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do you want to be married to someone you compare to a stranger?
Why do you want to be married to someone you can't trust?
Why do you want to be married to someone you don't want to touch?

Most importantly, why do you feel like you have to justify leaving this marriage? Who's judging you, Ostrich?


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25835 | Registered: Aug 2011
norabird
♀ Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If he really wanted to R, you would have transparency. But instead you can't see his phone, so there's no proof of anything bad, so maybe he's on the up-and-up....except that no, if he were on the up-and-up, you would have access to everything on that phone.

You are gaslighting yourself honey.

If you're done, you're done.

You don't owe him anything. Really.

You deserve to be with someone you can trust.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
mainlyinpain
♀ Member
Member # 39134
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Ostrich)))

It sounds like you are living in crazyland. This is wearing you down bigtime. I am not sure of your entire story but I feel your hurt and pain. This is not a guy who you can let control your thinking in any way. If you are staying through til 2015 to your plan, then just observe him. Like a creature in a zoo. Don't try to figure him out, what he really means today, what he meant yesterday. Use him for what you need but detach detach. It seems you have by your now viewing him as somewhat of a stranger, not comfortable with him in your bathroom.
This new phone has you scattered because you lost the ability to feel safe by knowing the reality of the behind your back stuff. You lost that lifeline. So now you are unsure of what really is happening, esp when he starts to be nice again. What does this mean? You no longer have your information source.
If you don't have honesty between you, don't question your plan. That just seems to have gotten worse with no transparency with the phone.
You are at the bottom of the roller coaster ride. Look forward.
have Strength


DD 1 - 7/7/2004
DD 2 - 10/31/2011
DD 3 - 4/30/2013(or continuation?)(Yes)
DD 4 - 9/25/2013
DD 5 - 2/15/2014 (found phone from 2009)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Apr 2013
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Most importantly, why do you feel like you have to justify leaving this marriage? Who's judging you, Ostrich?

I don't know why. I always feel like I need something in my hand to say, here, this is why

This new phone has you scattered because you lost the ability to feel safe by knowing the reality of the behind your back stuff. You lost that lifeline. So now you are unsure of what really is happening, esp when he starts to be nice again. What does this mean? You no longer have your information source.


Yes ^^^^ I start feeling.like its my imagination. When I first found the web history and realized he was still in contact, it was almost a relief because I could feel it but couldn't prove it. I even found myself saying, maybe since he's got all these games downloaded on this new phone, he's playing those instead of talking to her. Like maybe he was bored and was just snooping in her facebook. I know.its ridiculous and.if someone else posted this, I would think they were in serious denial I just want it to be over, but.I don't want to have to be the one that does it I guess. I really wish he would just.move in with her so I could move on. I think I need to go back to ic. I'm spinning again. I though.I had myself under control, I was detaching, then he threw me a curve ball and here I go again


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5171 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
Melian40
♀ Member
Member # 41205
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm feeling the same.
I 've read somewhere here on SI that R is a ticking clock. If a WS does not do the right things soon after the DD the BS's hearts empty and they shield them. The clock of R stops and the clock of D starts.


BW-me:40
BH-him:41
DD-age 9
Together 7 years, married 17 years
DD1:8/12/2013 -OW1-PA 1.5 months in 2009
DD2:8/17/2013 - OW2-EA Spring 2013- He tried to hit on her but she denied.

"You can't fix a broken man, but he can break you"


Posts: 210 | Registered: Nov 2013
jackie89
♀ Member
Member # 38271
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know why. I always feel like I need something in my hand to say, here, this is why

But you already know WHY! He has been in some sort of a relationship withe OW for 8 years! Isn't that enough reason?

You deserve better than being with a man that you think of as Stranger, that you don't want to touch.

Take the first step, then the next...


Separated/divorcing

"The Secret of Change is to focus all your energy - not on fighting the old, but on building the new" ~~Lori Greiner FB post~~


Posts: 519 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
mainlyinpain
♀ Member
Member # 39134
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want it to be over, but.I don't want to have to be the one that does it I guess. I really wish he would just.move in with her so I could move on.

Ostrich, I know what you mean about not wanting to be the one that does it. I feel sometimes manipulated to be the one who does it just so he can say that it was not him who ended it but me....leaving him blameless, looking better, winning again, controlling again. I don't want to feel controlled like that. But I just wrote this in a letter to my brother:
"I wish he would just say I don't love you or I don't love you enough or I love someone else more. Then the hope in me could die. The hope of having a happy life with him. I could give that up and really work on a happy life without him."
We feel so bad already we don't want to feel like the bad guy who ended it. Rationally, I know that his actions led to it ending.....but what if I stayed one more round? What if that is what is needed and I stayed through everything and then ended it one round too soon? It is so hard to make that choice and be sure. That is what paralyzes us. And I know the feeling of needing something in your hand to be THE reason, the defacto, no doubts, holy grail of a reason.
I realize I'm not giving you any answers, just telling you I am as screwed up as you.


DD 1 - 7/7/2004
DD 2 - 10/31/2011
DD 3 - 4/30/2013(or continuation?)(Yes)
DD 4 - 9/25/2013
DD 5 - 2/15/2014 (found phone from 2009)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Apr 2013
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is what paralyzes us.

I do feel paralyzed.. we've never really even talked about what happened, not entirely. For a week or two after DD, we had a few conversations but it was mainly him denying. I feel paralyzed when I try to bring up anything about the A because I know he will act like I'm bringing up an old subject that's been closed but he closed it not me. Sometimes I think if I stay just a little bit longer, may one day I will get my answers, if I leave I never will. I really think he thinks I'm over it but that's my fault for participating in the facade. I've acted like I'm over it but, inside its still is on my mind daily. Wow I'm just a hot mess today.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5171 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
nowiknow23
♀ Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What if you never get your answers? What if, 10 years from now, you still don't have answers and things have not changed at all? How much of your life is a big enough sacrifice, Ostrich? At what point do you "earn" your freedom?


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25835 | Registered: Aug 2011
jackie89
♀ Member
Member # 38271
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What if you wrote him an email/letter?
It's important for your healing for you to express how how you feel, that you haven't gotten over it.

Maybe that could be a start of that conversation again. Then see how he responds - maybe that could help you move on one way or another??

If you really have never discussed it since those first few weeks after DD, then he could have very well assumed that you're OK, when in fact you are not.

Ostrich, that's a lot of years of being in pain. You deserve better than this.


Separated/divorcing

"The Secret of Change is to focus all your energy - not on fighting the old, but on building the new" ~~Lori Greiner FB post~~


Posts: 519 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
Allornothing
♀ Member
Member # 42354
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Ostrich)))


Me- BS 43
Him- FWH 43
Married 19 years, Together 26
Kids- 23,21,15,14
D Day- 7 Sept 2013
OW- Irrelevant

Posts: 192 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Australia
lost_in_toronto
♀ Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you guys think this new Mr ostrich is just an act to pacify me, so I won't be suspicious?

His behaviour really seems to follow a pattern of hot and cold every few months. He may be playing nice right now but it won't last.

I think he does this to control you. Whether the end result is that you are placated or no longer suspicious, I'm not sure he even cares. I am sure he realizes that keeping you off centre makes it difficult for you to make a decision and move forward. Having access to his phone helped with this because it gave you solid ground and certainty about who you are dealing with.

Don't let the new phone fool you. If you got the password, you would still see the same old shit.

(((Ostrich80)))

And everything Nik said, too.

[This message edited by lost_in_toronto at 7:35 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1684 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

His behaviour really seems to follow a pattern of hot and cold every few months. He may be playing nice right now but it won't last.

I think he does this to control you. Whether the end result is that you are placated or no longer suspicious, I'm not sure he even cares. I am sure he realizes that keeping you off centre makes it difficult for you to make a decision and move forward.


Holy cow...this makes sense. I forget sometimes to give him credit for not being the , geez can't think of the word I'm looking for but basically he is clever, he just acts like he's not. Sometimes feel like we are in this big chess game of life, I say this, he says that, I make a move, he adjusts his behavior...all happening with us looking like nothings going on.

@ Jackie...I have left a letter in his truck. He never said a word, nor did I :
@ nik...I know the years are passing. I know I will be out one day and wonder what took me so long. I wonder what's finally going to be the thing that pushes me to move.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5171 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I wish he would just say I don't love you or I don't love you enough or I love someone else more.

This, I want him to say it, rip the f**king bandaid off.
He said it 7 yrs ago and I was ready to D. It was a done deal then two weeks later he switched gears and wanted to start over with our R. I knew it was a mistake to stay with him, I fucking knew it. Mad at myself right now.

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 8:01 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5171 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
lastdance
♀ Member
Member # 42401
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

THE SILENCE HANDS OUT PERMISSION SLIPS FOR INFIDELITY.......why are you here...why, why ....what will prove or change if 'he confessed'-----what difference does it make....what is done is done.....besides would you believe anything he says.....this guy is really into head games,very abusive....he has no feelings for you,none.....he is very crippled emotionally.....run,run,run as fast as you can,,,let someone else deal with his head games,,, this life you have now is not a dress rehersal....this is it....why would you choose to be so unhappy and abused.....life is short,,,you deserve better

Posts: 153 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: orlando, fl
cayc
♀ Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is one of the downsides to long run plan to freedom. You have to live in the crazy. You think you can do it (in service of your children) and you logic yourself into it for that reason. Well that reason and because getting D is scary as fuck.

I remember you before you were ostrich80. You've been dragging this burden around for way too long.

I wish for you to free yourself. I'll understand if you don't. I'll still listen and encourage you if you don't. But what I want for you is freedom. And I'll keep hoping for it on your behalf. Freedom is out there waiting for you.


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
hardtimesinlife
♀ Member
Member # 10468
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I wonder what's finally going to be the thing that pushes me to move.

I lived what you describe for 4 or 5 years. Until that "thing" happened that pushed me over the edge. What was it? We had an argument in the office about a work issue and he walked into my office, looked for something to smash and picked up my Mac laptop and bashed it on the desk 3 or 4 times. Then looked at me with that "see? I'm more powerful than you" look in his eyes and I was done. Just. Done.

I really can't believe that of everything he's done to hurt me and break my heart (and spirit) that it took smashing my Mac to wake me the hell up. Oh, and he said I "deserved it" and "someone had to put an end to that fight and I did". Wow. I feel stupid but so relieved to be away from the crazy,

Hugs Ostrich. I'm hoping you get your happy sooner rather than later.


Ddays 2004 & 2007
I cut my losses mid 2013
Feeling happier every day :)

Posts: 6140 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Florida
FixYou71
♀ Member
Member # 42654
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you need to trust your gut more and the evidence. IF he was in true recovery there would be clearer signs and this would not be such a constant, burning question/concern. The fear of what if would still be there of course but your post reads of a deceptive manipulator rather than a transparent fully remorseful WS. The lack of transparency in and of itself is the only deal breaker you need yet you have so much more. Red flags a flyin'

I knew it was a mistake to stay with him, I fucking knew it. Mad at myself right now. 

Don't be so hard on yourself. None of us knew what to do when these things happened. Noone prepared us. There was no class in school on how to react, respond, handle, work through and translate the aftermath of an A. . This is why this site is such a relieving place to find for so many. None of automatically knew 'how'
If you even thought it was worth it to give any effort to any kind of attempt it would be perfectly acceptable for you to lay down your requirements even now. Anything you wish you'd said can still be said. You CAN go to him and tell him you made some decisions in a painful confusing time that you cannot live with and that need to be corrected. You have every right. This is YOUR life, YOUR journey, YOUR choice!!! You might decide to go this route just to rule out any possibility that true R is possible. It sounds like it's not but I've read about WS' s not getting on board until these types of steps (180, making your dealbreaking demands with consequences etc) were taken and they were forced to decide, to choose. Do what YOU need to feel the best about leaving or staying. But only stay under the right conditions. Maybe your codependency issues cause you to fear this kind of confrontation. Maybe you could talk to an IC and get your WS to go for a visit where you can present your case with someone there to back you up. Just a thought. (IF you even chose to bother...only you can decide if it's worth the effort at this point).
((Ostrich80))

[This message edited by FixYou71 at 10:07 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


BS: 43
H: 49
Dday #1 Oct 2007 (Porn for 2 yrs)
Dday #2 May 2013 (Porn for 5 more yrs))
Dday#3 May 2014 (finally admitted to drunk kissing OW in 1994: the 2nd drunken kiss with another woman during our M)
DD 21 and DS 17
Married 1993

Posts: 451 | Registered: Mar 2014
norabird
♀ Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ostrich...you seem so sweet and good. Reading through your replies on this thread I thought about the SI analogy about the frog in the pot of water. It's hard when what you know and expect has been so warped by years of limbo that your sense of objective reality slips. But, from the outside....the water just isn't safe. It may not be boiling yet but why would you wait for it to really boil over when you're already suffering from stewing in it? Sorry for the clumsy metaphor but I wish you could jump out of the pot and see that it's much calmer here. It's getting too hot for you in this marriage.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Topic Posts: 32
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