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User Topic: My gut has lost it's way.. (tmi)
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm 18 months out.. My WS had a 4 month PA.. On DDay he said he had sex with MOW 2x + oral and did not finish because he couldn't stay hard. He also denied taking her to a few places and insisted he went alone. I didn't believe him. He knew I didn't believe him. My gut wouldn't let it go. I didn't let it go. One year later he confessed to sex 3x w/ oral and he did finish every time, once via BJ and twice he pulled out and finished himself (also said he pulled out of her mouth and finished himself because she 'wasn't getting it done'). He said she never finished as she is unable to orgasm. He insisted he did have trouble staying hard (he was drunk every time) and that he couldn't penetrate her more than half way (?) which MOW explained away as "lack of sex and thats just how it is". He said he didn't question it, said it was like hitting a wall. He took her word for it that it was from lack of sex and just thought that it would get better, but said it didn't. He also said there was a 4th night in a motel but nothing sexual happened because he passed out. He also admitted to taking her to the places that I had suspected all along and to another place that I didn't know anything about. He says 'that's it, that's all of it'.. says there's nothing more to tell.. I just don't know if I believe it..

My problem is that after being lied to for the 4 month A, and then not getting the whole story on DDay and then being lied to for another year after DDay has left me unable to trust whether I have all of the truth now and if it's even the truth or if there is still more. My gut is confused now. Sometimes I think there is more, sometimes I think I have it all (as much as that can be since he was drunk for most of time he physically spent with her). It's been 6 months since he told me 'all of it', but I still just don't know. I know everyone says 'trust your gut'.. but my gut is confused..

WS is remoreful, he's reading, he's sorry every single day, he tells me how sick he is about what he's done, including the lies in the aftermath and that he knows now how destructive it all has been... he owns it, he owns that my gut doesn't trust him, he's doing everything he should be.. I see the pain in his eyes for what he's done.. I wanna believe him..

But part of me still wonders.. is there more?? My gut has lost it's way..

I'm at a loss with how to deal with this going forward.. the lies are so fucking damaging..

[This message edited by LadyLove at 9:30 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
nekorb
♀ Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG I hate trickle truth. I got it too. My WH is not remorseful at all, we are D, but I know for a FACT, that he still lies right to my face where OW is concerned.

I just think - why? Why lie at this point? (Because he has to so that he can face himself in the mirror. Sometimes I think he believes the lies too!)

It sounds like your WH is being remorseful and doing the work. Is he transparent?

(((Hugs))) I'm sorry your gut has it's knickers in a twist.


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1832 | Registered: Aug 2013
hardtimesinlife
♀ Member
Member # 10468
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You got the dreaded trickle truth. It is painful. It is damaging for the very reasons you state in this post. In fact, it's my belief that the bs's reaction to the first trickle truth is often so intense that the ws then decides to hold on to the rest of the info. It's a vicious cycle.

Your gut will even out with time. It is good that you don't trust him right now. He hasn't yet built up enough "gain time" for your trust to peek through. If you want to get the truth once and for all schedule a polygraph. His reaction to that will tell you what you need to know.

Hugs


Ddays 2004 & 2007
I cut my losses mid 2013
Feeling happier every day :)

Posts: 6088 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Florida
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nekorb - Yes, he's transparent - I have access to everything.. anytime.. I just rarely check up on him. I don't have it in me to babysit him. He's either at work or with me anyway. I know I won't stick around if it happens again. I don't have THAT in me either. Too painful. And I think he knows this. Everybody's different, but I would have to walk away for my own well-being if he ever cheats again.

I'm sorry for your pain - and I wonder the same thing.. why lie? It is what it is.. might as well get it all out and let the chips fall where they may.. There is no such thing as damage control when it comes to infidelity. (((hugs)))

hardtimesinlife - Yeah, I will never trust him 100% again, I think that goes without saying when there's infidelity. It saddens me as I once trusted him unconditionally. A polygraph is always an option.. but I'm hoping my gut evens out as you say.. (((hugs))) - I like that you're happier everyday

[This message edited by LadyLove at 10:33 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
FixYou71
♀ Member
Member # 42654
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I won't stick around if it happens again. I don't have THAT in me either. Too painful. And I think he knows this.

▲This stood out to me.
Have you given him your list of needs/dealbreakers/requirements for R? If so, did it include the consequences for not meeting them? The clearer you are the clearer he will be. If he knows that if he does x, y will happen...if he doesnt comply with A, B will happen. There's no room for confusion.
Hopefully he is reevaluation his decision to drink and the fact that at the very least his boundaries are clearly horrible when he is drinking. The drinking, imo would be on that list. At least if he's out without you right by his side. And hopefully he is looking inside himself to find out why it was ever even an option to go outside your marriage and risk everything you have for tawdry sex. I would not feel safe until I knew he had recognized those things within himself and was working hard to face them head on. How does he KNOW he won't do that again unless he knows why in the world he would ever do it in the first place.
Maybe you could print some of the things from the Healing Library off for him to read. There is some good meat there for him to chew on and it can help him better know how to support you and understand your pain and your needs as you go forward. Maybe at 18 mos out you already have done all this. Just the 'I think he knows this' comment stuck out for me.

[This message edited by FixYou71 at 11:04 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


BS: 43
H: 49
Dday #1 Oct 2007 (Porn for 2 yrs)
Dday #2 May 2013 (Porn for 5 more yrs))
Dday#3 May 2014 (finally admitted to drunk kissing OW in 1994: the 2nd drunken kiss with another woman during our M)
DD 21 and DS 17
Married 1993

Posts: 451 | Registered: Mar 2014
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 11:38 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FixYou71 - he knows what my main dealbreakers are including NC. I will give that some more thought though, thanks for pointing that out.. MOW was his HS GF who contacted him on FB and it escalated from there. They met numerous times at his mother's house.. (yes, his mother was a willing participant - I thought he was at his mother's cooling off when he was spending nights with MOW). Our marriage wasn't great, but like someone else on here says - it was ours. MOW was an opportunity that he unfortunately answered. As for drinking - he does not go out anywhere without me. He does read SI and is trying to figure out his 'whys'.. that is something that he knows I need and he knows that he needs.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 12:28 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(yes, his mother was a willing participant

Omgosh, this is insane. His mom allowed them to use her home to hook up? Wow that's another betrayal for you. I'm so sorry.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 4911 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
craig2001
♂ Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 12:55 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

for another year after DDay has left me unable to trust whether I have all of the truth now and if it's even the truth or if there is still more. My gut is confused now.

That has been my problem for more time than I care to think about.

With the constant TT and the changing of stories, my gut feelings just feel worn out. Like they are just tired of playing human lie detector.

I just fall back on common sense and the fact I am not an idiot. My gut feelings are exactly what caught her in the first place. Every time my gut feelings were screaming at me, they turned out I was right.

I also heard some ridiculous stories concerning the sex, as if I had never had sex in my life, and I am supposed so believe this stuff. Stuff so ridiculous, it sounds like something out of high school.

I have been lied to and TT and seen the story change so many times now, I really wonder if I can or should trust my own gut feelings.

With the constant changing stories, I now wonder, okay, when is the story I get going to be the truthful one. I continue to believe my gut feeling will let me know along with my common sense and experiences in real life.

Your WH might be completely transparent and remorseful at the things he did do, and is certainly not having any kind of affair now, but that doesnt help with the current lies about the past.

Write here or to yourself, the pros and cons, why you dont believe. You can argue with yourself as you write and come up with new thoughts and ideas.

Sometimes the truths we get are so ridiculous, you wonder how could they be made up.


Posts: 3765 | Registered: Jun 2002
LifeIsTooWeird
♀ Member
Member # 42093
Default  Posted: 4:14 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's this saying that guys live by now, if a girl says she's had sex with X# of guys, double and sometimes triple it and you'll have her count. I think of this saying with his confessions, if he said they only went out once, lie it was more. Only had sex 3 times, lie! They give low numbers because they think it won't hurt us as bad. The truth is, they were screwing like rabbits and everyone knows it. As far as the other stuff goes, where he took her, trust your gut. My gut screams she was at his apartment, he denies it. I'll never know for sure, because he'll never admit it, but my gut was not wrong about the other things, I know it's not wrong about that.


Me - GF (38)
Him - BF (33)
DDay - 08/13
Together 8 Years
In R

Posts: 133 | Registered: Jan 2014
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ostrich - They spent the majority of their time at his mother's house. They would spend nights together at a motel around the corner (while I was at home wondering why he needed so much time to cool off at his mother's house). As far as his mother's concerned she did nothing wrong.. she actually said "What was I supposed to do? Turn you and MOW away at the door?" How about "Yes, you stupid bitch!?". My WS is disgusted with her behavior as well as his own and her refusal to own her part in this mess has severely damaged their once loving relationship. There's her karma. She welcomed MOW with hugs and kisses. She would say things to WS like 'you deserve to be happy', 'you just worry about you'.. sickening. I was foolish to think that after 16 years of marriage to her son that she would have even a shred of respect or loyalty for me. I couldn't have been more wrong.

[This message edited by LadyLove at 10:01 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)]


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

craig and lifeistooweird - I hear what you're saying.. sometimes it gets just too hard to take in and you just don't know what to believe anymore.

(((hugs)))


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry you're still struggling getting basic facts. I think months of TT would confuse anyone's gut. A couple of things in your post stand out to me.

First, he had sex with ow when he was drunk. Does he have a drinking problem? If so, what's he doing to solve it?

Second, I don't think reading SI is enough o change himself from cheater to good partner. Is he in IC? Are you in MC? I think he'll do a lot better if he has help.

Third, have you considered a polygraph test? That could reveal whether or not he came clean.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9985 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
whattheh
♀ Member
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I experienced some trickle truth but luckily not for a year.

It seems like he has copped to your suspicions. But did he admit new things?

Does it make sense to you that he had sex 4times over 4 months? Think back about the opportunities and see if that makes sense. Does it make sense from OWs perspective? Some OWs are very motivated to increase PA frequency as a way to steal the H away and they can be quite aggressive.

I handled this by talking about the details repeatedly over a period of time and watched carefully to see if story continued to remain the same. I also asked him about his feelings during the A and tried to get new details. I did this to see if consistency was maintained and carefully evaluated that. And if he starts saying he doesn't remember that may be an indication of lying. It's harder for people to remember lies and keep them straight and many just start claiming to forget. If your fWH continues to willingly answer your questions then I would say that's a good sign.

Most times I think I've accepted what my fWH did but sometimes I wake up with a new question and that I believe is my intuition trying to help me make sure I know everything.

[This message edited by whattheh at 12:30 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)]


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013 PA 2010
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 530 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sissoon - Drinking was what they did together, it was summer, I guess that was their way of lowering their inhibitions together.. a way of making it easier to be together without being too conscious of what they were doing. WS and I do enjoy having drinks together on the weekends.

You're right - he may need more help - we'll keep that option open. We read together outside of SI too. We talk a lot. We tried MC, we didn't like it - she appeared too sympathetic to him. We may try again.

He's open to a polygraph. I'll see how I feel going forward.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
SadInNC
♀ Member
Member # 42170
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How did you get him to confess more information after a year?

I want to let you know that my MIL gave her full support toward my WH's A. I know how badly that hurts. His stepsister actually told him to be "selfish" because he deserved it. I read the facebook message.

I think the TT and lies are more damaging than the A. Just give it a little more time. See if your gut heals. Mine is off, too, because now I don't believe one word he says to me. Nothing. The obveous lies are easy and I look at him and say, "You really think I'm a complete idiot, don't you?" He'll say, "No, honey I don't. I love you and I'm telling you the truth. The world really is flat and not round. You're not an idiot, please believe me. I love you."

You're 18 months out. I'm 3 months out. How many people actually get to The Land of Absolute Truth?


BS/Me WH/Him

"Your value doesn't decrease based on someone's inability to see your worth." -Unknown Wise Person


Posts: 337 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: North Carolina, United States
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This may seem like a strange response, and I may get discenting opinions from others but here is my take.

He did this, and he is truly remorseful, and he is doing all the hard work of R. He is not denying anymore, and he is willing to do whatever it takes, even a poly.

At some point you have to tell yourself that you know all the important stuff, and that was that he had an A, it was physical and it lasted for 4 months, his mother betrayed your M, and is not worth your time, and is not a friend of you M. What good does finding out more do for you?
Does it help you heal more? Does it hurt you and take you back to day one? If you found out more, would it change where you are now? If he forgot some detail to share because he was black out drunk, would it change things now? IF the answers to this are no, and that it doesn't change where you are now, then at some point you have to say ok. I know enough. Knowing more will truly only hurt me. If his behavior starts to change back to the A-hole he was during the A, I am done and out, but right now it's good so I have to let it go.

My H conducted his A entirely out of town. He would go to the other City every week for 2-3 nights. He was with her then. I guarantee, I don't know all the details of what they did, in as far as how many times they had sex, how many times they did not use protection, or all that. I do know he was unfaithful, he was a mean ass while he was in the A, and he tore me down every chance he could. But he was remorseful, and relieved when he was finally able to confess it, and end it. When he knew I was giving him an incredible gift he started to do the work, and did all the hard work. He also willing answered any questions I had truthfully. He would not volunteer information, because he knew I did not want or need all the nitty gritty details. But eventually I decided I did know enough, and I focused on the actions in the present, and sister that was what made this difference.

Pay attention to your gut on his actions now. If those are screaming at you, then be alert, if it's about the stuff that is done and over, and you can't change, you may have to let it go.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8194 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whattheh - He did admit to some new things/places. Over the 4 month PA it was only sexual during the second month. He was able to spend a total of 8 nights away from home during that month. 7 of those nights were in the first 10 days of the month when he said he was at his mothers because he needed time to himself.. I know he definitely spent the first night at his mother's. 3 nights he admitted to spending in a motel with MOW. The other nights he insisted he spent at his mother's while MOW went home to her husband. The 8th and final night was a couple weekends later that he admitted was spent in a motel with MOW (the night he says he passed out). The only other opportunity he had to see her was when she would frequently visit him on his lunch break at work. He wouldn't give her his cell number - they kept in contact via email & FB. He spent the last almost 2 months trying to extricate himself from her clutches without me finding out. He said he just would give her the cold shoulder and hoped she would just go away.

Opportunity-wise it is plausible since he was always home with me before & after work other than the days/nights mentioned above when he was at his mothers (with MOW)... I have never spoken to MOW to get her perspective, she messaged me several times on FB once WS finally told her he wasn't leaving me - she didn't take it well.. The first message of several she sent me was "hope you're happy being married to someone who's in love with someone else"... sooooo... I doubt she'd be truthful.. I never responded to her drama, I gave her crickets.

I think it's just a matter of getting my gut back to where it needs to be again.. maybe it needs a vacation


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whattheh - He did admit to some new things/places. Over the 4 month PA it was only sexual during the second month. He was able to spend a total of 8 nights away from home during that month. 7 of those nights were in the first 10 days of the month when he said he was at his mothers because he needed time to himself.. I know he definitely spent the first night at his mother's. 3 nights he admitted to spending in a motel with MOW. The other nights he insisted he spent at his mother's while MOW went home to her husband. The 8th and final night was a couple weekends later that he admitted was spent in a motel with MOW (the night he says he passed out). The only other opportunity he had to see her was when she would frequently visit him on his lunch break at work. He wouldn't give her his cell number - they kept in contact via email & FB. He spent the last almost 2 months trying to extricate himself from her clutches without me finding out. He said he just would give her the cold shoulder and hoped she would just go away.

Opportunity-wise it is plausible since he was always home with me before & after work other than the days/nights mentioned above when he was at his mothers (with MOW)... I have never spoken to MOW to get her perspective, she messaged me several times on FB once WS finally told her he wasn't leaving me - she didn't take it well.. The first message of several she sent me was "hope you're happy being married to someone who's in love with someone else"... sooooo... I doubt she'd be truthful.. I never responded to her drama, I gave her crickets.

I think it's just a matter of getting my gut back to where it needs to be again.. maybe it needs a vacation


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tushnurse - You are so right on many points. That's some good advice there.

I am a detail-oriented person and that makes it hard for me to let it go.. but you're right, I am at that point where I have to try and figure out if what I do know now is enough for me going forward.

One thing you said really resonates with me:

Pay attention to your gut on his actions now. If those are screaming at you, then be alert, if it's about the stuff that is done and over, and you can't change, you may have to let it go.

Thanks for posting, you've been very helpful to me today .


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
LadyLove
♀ Member
Member # 40664
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SadInNC - You asked "How did you get him to confess more information after a year?" - I wouldn't let it go. I knew there was more, I just knew it. And after a year he finally admitted to more. Said he was afraid I'd leave him. He was selfish. Always trust your gut.. especially in the early going.

I hope you've cut MIL & SIL out of your lives.. they are not friends of the marriage and don't deserve your time.

(((hugs)))


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 48 Ladyslove
Don't know if I can live with it.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Sep 2013
Topic Posts: 20

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