Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Everythingsucks1 (45359)

General Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: DDay 3 - it went underground
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alottolose,

LTA's are tricky. If I would have listened to everyone here, I would have saved myself years of pain. If I would have been a clam but cool HARD ASS, I would have knocked him off the fence. Meaning if I would have done it when I first found out.
But, nope, I was going to stand for my marriage (I still go but in a different way)Instead of being afraid of losing him and him going to be with her. I could not lose my man to that trick, but he was already choosing her over me every time he walked out the door, texting, thinking about her, and when he was home we were either fighting about how it made me feel and trying to reason with him to end it or he was not there in mind or thought.
That went on for 3.5 years until HE chose what we should do and that was me moving out to HOPEFULLY SAVE the marriage. HARDEST thing I ever did in my life...
Here we were moving half of our home into an apartment when we should have been moving our DD into an apartment of her own. I felt so abandoned, rejected, and thrown away. He was all confused. He cried and want to make us work. We were than on a roller coaster again not because he was still in the A but because he was not sure if he wanted to be married and to much damage had been done. So we spent time together ALL the time. But, to have my own place started to become my peace, mine, my quiet time, and sure I would get lonely but it was a different lonely when he was not with me. Not like the lonely I felt watching him have his A in my face. And this way IF he was lying and still in the A or whatever I didn't have to see it.
Then he wanted me to come so in Nov 1st of this year,I moved home. And once I got home, he started back up into his selfish ways. No A but now wants to maybe D, we fight to much over all that has happened the last 5 years, wants to move on in life, blah blah blah....

This is what can happen if you DON'T kick him off the fence and you let fear run your life. Shit I still can not believe that this is happening again to me. The the A but to have to move back out and start all over again.

As much as I want my marriage saved and as much as I can not understand this, I DO KNOW MY WORTH and I am a WONDERFUL WIFE and PERSON. I love hard and I love with all my being. He just can't do that for me and that is not right.

I hope you find the courage that I did not have at the time and snap his dick off the fence!


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2791 | Registered: Aug 2011
norabird
♀ Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((hugs))))

Strength is a journey as well as a destination. Build it up slowly if you must, and don't beat yourself up for your feelings and reactions. Going numb helps us cope though it can't last forever and won't improve our situation the way that action will.

Just wondering, is there something in your past that makes you dislike confrontation so much? Maybe investigating the underlying causes of your reluctance to stir the pot will help set you free from your desire to avoid bringing up tough issues.

As for your MIL, get whatever support you need, but it won't bring your WH into true R to feel pressured (just my opinion). The change has to come from inside him, not without. And the truth about his continuing the A needs to go on the table, whether in MC or not, in order for that change to happen one way or the other.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Alottolose
♀ New Member
Member # 42434
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't quote from my tablet, but oh my gosh Faithful, your last line just cracked me up!

Is your H still seeing her?


BW
Him: BH
DD1: 7/12 EA
DD2: 1/14 EA, possible PA same OW
3 kids
In R

Posts: 25 | Registered: Feb 2014
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He may not leave you, which is why they are prob fighting. I assume he's doing what I've allowed my ws to do, have the comfort of a warm home and family then have her on the side, which btw doesn't sound like she's content with.
You may be able to salvage your M but not without confronting and establishing some requirements from him plus he has to want it. I bet when he's in.fear of losing you, he's sorry and wants to give it another shot, then when ow threatens to end it,he starts making promises to her to D you.. It's a shitty existence for the bs...Ive been living it for awhile and would not recommend it. Push his ass of the fence or better yet leave him on it and you decide if YOU want him rather than hoping he wants you. Good luck and I'm so sorry your in this sich again.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5134 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
StillLivin
♀ Member
Member # 40229
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alottolose,
I apologize if I am repeating. In a hurry and don't have time right now to read all of the posts.
I'm going to be as gently forthright as I know how.
Your post screams control. It seems like you are under the false impression that anything you do has any control over what your STBXH is going to do.
He said it himself, he wants out. He is basically going to become a bigger and bigger jerk, emotionally abusing you, until he breaks you. All because he selfishly doesn't want to look like the jerk he is. If you do nothing, you will be letting him abuse you, and you will regret doing nothing.
NOTHING you say or do is going to KEEP him at this point.
However, you CAN push him real effing hard off the cake eating fence.
You have all the control in the world over your own actions.
At this point, you need to HARD 180 and NC if the situation dictates. If it were me, I would Hefty bag his shit, toss it out the door, and tell him if he wants to come home, HE will have to do the hard work (oh, wait, I did do that). Far be it for you to keep him from his "true lurve" and "true happiness". He needs to see what it is like for him not to have you. He has been cake eating too damn long.
Will he go to the OW? Very likely. Sounds like he is already mostly there anyway.
You can give him the option of coming home, but set your requirements for R first.
It might seem like you don't have the strength, but you do. You have to start putting you and your needs first. He has been out of the M for a while.
If he really was planning to leave, would he have done it already?

Honey, gently, ok. He has already left the M. He is just continuing to abuse you so YOU will be the bad guy and kick him out. Personally, you should give him exactly what he wants. No matter what happens, he is preparing to leave. Regardless of whether you kick him out or not, he is going to paint you as the bad guy. Be prepared for the demonization to commence one way or the other.
Go see a lawyer, get an STD check, and make appointments for you and your precious darlings to see an IC. Close out all credit cards with both names, get your own checking and savings account if you haven't already. Move half the money to one of the accounts in your own name. Use marital asset money for the attorney. You don't have to file for D, but strongly consider it.
Pull credit reports.
If the retainer is $3500, give them $4500 in case the D proceedings do go forth and in case he acts an ass.
If you want to confront him, then do so. However, do NOT tell him how you got your information. Hold ALL of your cards close to your chest.
And remember this too, NONE of this is your fault. There was NOTHING you could have said or done differently to prevent the A or the DDs. N.O.T.H.I.N.G!!! Now the only thing you can do is do for yourself and your kids.


I don't need further confirmation of what a fuckwit he is. I already have plenty, thanks very much. -SBB
D: 7/2/2014

Posts: 2335 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: AZ
Alottolose
♀ New Member
Member # 42434
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Norabird, it isn't that I don't like confrontation, I have done plenty of that in my life, and with him. The problem is, I do not want to lose him, and I think that our M is too weak right now because he is blinded by compliments and feelings for ow. I truly believe that once she is out of the picture we will be able to build a m that is stronger than it ever was. I know what my issues were, and I agree that I was not always a great w, but now that I am aware of these issues I am changing my behavior. Honestly, up until the A, he was a perfect H. This new personality of his came along with the A, he was never like is before. He gave up on me, and us, although he is still a great father.

I know that we can be happy, but while I was withholding intimacy, he found it with someone else. I was also moody, and unappreciative of his efforts as a husband, which I have acknowledged . Instead of discussing this with me, or asking to go to MC, he decided to have an A instead. Now, he thinks that he is in Looooove with her, and I'm afraid that I've lost him.

I am not excusing his behavior, I'm just letting you know how we went from happiness to this and why I am clinging on.


BW
Him: BH
DD1: 7/12 EA
DD2: 1/14 EA, possible PA same OW
3 kids
In R

Posts: 25 | Registered: Feb 2014
NeverAgain2013
♀ Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You were absolutely right when you said your pride was telling you to go and you should probably listen to it.

Because unfortunately, the advice you've been getting from your emotions has gotten you NOTHING but kicked in the face over and over and over again.

Go to a lawyer. Being scared is no longer an option; you need to find out what your legal rights are or he'll make sure to steamroll you financially every possible way he can.

You need to face the fact that he's NOT looking out for you, Alottolose. He's looking out for good old Number #1.

Call the lawyer.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1812 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is your H still seeing her?

No but they have to be in contact for work and I saw a text back in Aug that I blew up off of. But no he is not seeing her and I know for a fact.

He said it himself, he wants out. He is basically going to become a bigger and bigger jerk, emotionally abusing you, until he breaks you. All because he selfishly doesn't want to look like the jerk he is. If you do nothing, you will be letting him abuse you, and you will regret doing nothing.

This ^^^^^ He became Satan himself I swear at times and how he treated me and spoke to me. I became the joke and the enemy for a long time. Then he would be nice if I didn't call him out on anything or talk about the nasty Sasquatch he was in the A with. He got really nasty to me. Oh Lord do I remember.

Then when the A started fizzling out he got nicer and nicer but he was already a changed person form it and didn't see me as the same person worth R for or having true remorse for. And now after everything he is wanting out again. Not to be with her or anyone else but because he fuck all our lives up and he feels it can't be fixed because HE DOESN'T want to put in the effort because than he will have to see what he truly did.

Its fucked up all the way around and I know for a FACT if I didn't wait years and coward down scared of losing him when I already had, we could most likely been in R.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2791 | Registered: Aug 2011
norabird
♀ Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's hard when you can look back and pinpoint a time where things went off the rails. But I don't see the need to excuse him because you two were struggling. And at a certain point we go into 'bargaining' mode--promising ourselves/our partners we're going to be the best we can be to them, to fix the problems that weren't addressed before; when the types of things you bargain over are at this point old news and no longer the real issue, since the real issue is of course his having this other relationship and betraying you.

I certainly understand wanting to save your relationship and I hope you can. It is so painful to be rejected by someone we still love and have built a life with. And if there were a time machine to just go back and make things as they were before I'm sure many would use it. But what's happening now is more real and pressing than what you used to have together unfortunately and looking back wistfully only blinds you to the current reality. (I say this having done that myself).

That doesn't mean there's no chance you can R. But to have a chance, this OW has to go. And the way to get her out of the picture is to force the issue and be serious in the consequences you use to do that. Otherwise I'm afraid you'll stay in this awful position.

You will get through this.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The problem is, I do not want to lose him, and I think that our M is too weak right now because he is blinded by compliments and feelings for ow. I truly believe that once she is out of the picture we will be able to build a m that is stronger than it ever was. I know what my issues were, and I agree that I was not always a great w, but now that I am aware of these issues I am changing my behavior. Honestly, up until the A, he was a perfect H. This new personality of his came along with the A, he was never like is before. He gave up on me, and us, although he is still a great father.

My heart bleeds for you! I said the exact words. I knew that if I could get that bitch out of his life that we could start a new great life together because she was fogging him over with all that puke shit! But, it didn't happen. He had to end it and he didn't want to for a long time. I mean he had a fucking girlfriend and a wife.. She was very controlling and they would fight all the time about me! It got to the point where I would point out to him "See all woman bitch if they are cheated on and you are cheating on her also". I would point out (and still do) that all woman want a man that is true to them and we all complain, bitch, nag, blah blah when we are not treated correctly.

Honey, his personality change once he got in the A but as others have told me that is when I noticed his personality was always there I just didn't see it. But, on the other hand I feel for me that it did change my wh into a very selfish man even still.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2791 | Registered: Aug 2011
Alottolose
♀ New Member
Member # 42434
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Faithful, he ended it with OW? Was this because you threatened to D?


BW
Him: BH
DD1: 7/12 EA
DD2: 1/14 EA, possible PA same OW
3 kids
In R

Posts: 25 | Registered: Feb 2014
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LTA are not easy,like I said.

I wish I could take this all this away for you because I do know how you feel like you wont be able to breath without him, but you will. I could just cry for you because I know how hard this is to want to knock him off the fence but feel stuck with fear. Please please don't be afraid. I truly feel that you have a better chance at saving your marriage if you know him off of fence and mean it when you do it.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2791 | Registered: Aug 2011
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Alottolose))) first I want to say how sorry I am and that listening to VAR and confirming your fears is just awful. I know and have been there too. My fWH's last Dday was found out by VAR. I confronted with evidence and made an appt with a lawyer and left for a week to a rehab facility to get myself mentally better. I had full transparency including tracker after the VAR. My fWH has forfeited all rights to privacy (although I no longer check). I was ready to lose my M. My fWH knew it. It was then that he clawed his way back to me, when I gave up on him. Look into the 180 as that became my best friend and I still use parts of it when I need to.
You are not alone here


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Boundaries in Marriage"
by Cloud & Townsend

"Codependent No More"
"The New Codependent"
by Melody Beattie

You need both of these books. You don't realize it, you'll probably resist the 2nd two, but you desperately need these books ASAP.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9827 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, he ended it with OW, He finally came out of the fog when his mom passed and he saw her for what she was. She slept with lots of other co workers while in a relationship with my wh. And he never lied to his mom before until she confronted him about having a girlfriend on the side. He will never forgive himself for lying to her. He should not have even had to lie if he didn't have the A. I feel it also helped when I moved out. He lose his mom, his wife (sorta), house was empty basically when DS was with me. Then we started to try to R.

But sweetie, I never followed through with all my threats. I would always cave in because he could sweet talk me.

Doesn't matter now because he doesn't feel we will work. All those years I stuck it out to get slapped in the face. That is why I am telling you my story. The longer he sits upon that fence with his dick swaying from one side to the other, it will get worse.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2791 | Registered: Aug 2011
feelingfoolish
♀ Member
Member # 22804
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I speak from experience and agree with the others- you have to take control of the situation. I know you are scared he will leave, the fear is paralyzing. I completely understand that.

You will feel better in the long run that you made the choice for you and your kids and didn't wait for him to decide. It's empowering to have control of your actions instead of allowing someone else to make the decision for you. He has already made some choices for you and they are harmful. Take the reigns back.

Someone on SI posted something once called "If you love your spouse, divorce them". It was a wonderful post and 1000% true. Maybe one of the oldtimers on here can provide a link to it.

Take care.


me-44y
H-45y M-12 yrs
2 DS-21,15

06.30.12-- full PA with 24y ho-worker
08.16.12 DDay #2-are you f**king kidding me?
R-??? trying
07.21.13-Dday #3-filed for divorce the next day
R #2-hopeful but cautious.


Posts: 525 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: emerald city, oz
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Codependent No More"
"The New Codependent"
by Melody Beattie

I agree, I read them as I am codependent when it comes to him and only him. I am independent as hell but not with him. I do have some abandonment issues and rejection issues also. And I feel that is why I had such a hard time of letting him go or being okay with it. It doesn't scare me to much anymore but still scary as he is all I know really.

Read the books and you will see what I mean.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2791 | Registered: Aug 2011
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's empowering to have control of your actions instead of allowing someone else to make the decision for you.

Alottolose

You know what I miss the most about my own place? Is that I had ALL control there. I didn't have to put up with jack shit! There's the door.

I do feel now that I moved back in that I am losing my control again. And I am finding myself not smiling like before...mainly because I move right back into what I left with personality wise. Sucks.I didn't ask for it to be like this again. He is making the choice one again for us but this time I am not fighting it.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2791 | Registered: Aug 2011
TheRealDeal
♀ Member
Member # 39560
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strength is a journey as well as a destination. Build it up slowly if you must, and don't beat yourself up for your feelings and reactions. Going numb helps us cope though it can't last forever and won't improve our situation the way that action will.

Just wondering, is there something in your past that makes you dislike confrontation so much? Maybe investigating the underlying causes of your reluctance to stir the pot will help set you free from your desire to avoid bringing up tough issues.

^^^^this
((((Alottolose))))
we've all been in your shoes. we know the horrible fearful thoughts that hold you back from taking action. If you are not ready to take action right now, it will come. Strength comes from within and on your own timeline.

Believe me, Ive been where you are. Scared to force him to make a decision because I was too fearful of my future without him. My IC said it was okay to feel that way but it would come...in due time, in a way that was right for me, and that I would assert myself without fear about the future keeping its tight grip on me. I never thought it would be possible. My IC had more confidence in me than I did.

After 6 months of this fear gripping me and unable to say it, I finally did. I told WS that since he wanted "out" and "couldn't decide", then he was out and his indecision was actually his decision. And that I wouldn't stop him and he could go be with whomever he wished, it just wouldn't be me because I was done. I went NC with him immediately. It hurt me like hell but I didn't back down this time. After 4 days he suddenly realized what he had done and was losing. It was a pivotal moment. He realized he was getting what he thought he wanted and guess what, he didn't want that at all. Things certainly changed after that. We are in R...slowly and positively moving in a better direction.

There is no way of predicting what your WH will do but regardless of the outcome you need to recognize that you do not have any control over his decision...whether it's to stay or to leave. Its an acceptance of that fact that can be very scary before being able to take action.

But your ability to take that action and shove him off the fence must come when you are ready and no longer fearful of the future. Sometimes that comes immediately, sometimes it takes months, sometimes longer. Ultimately it is your timeline and what is right for YOU.

ETA: yes, read the suggested books on codependency. Perhaps find a CODA group in your area. That and IC was a huge, huge help to me. and as NG suggested you might resist it, I certainly did when IC suggested them, but they were lifesavers. Honest.


[This message edited by TheRealDeal at 2:58 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)]


Me: 45, him: 54
together 18 years
DDay1 March 2013, Dday2 April 27, 2013, Dday3 June 1, 2013
We are in R and trying to make it
Never lose yourself trying to hang onto someone who doesn't care about losing you.

Posts: 252 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Northeast
naivewife
♀ Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so sorry. All I can say is that I also had a second d-day due to the A going underground. Good for you for doing the VAR. If I had been smart enough to do the same, I am certain I would have heard the same conversation. But it didn't change the fact that WH, in his own sick way, still claims he didn't even have to think twice - it was our marriage that he wanted. It was the escape that he was addicted to, with OW. OW was single and aggressive, and when she got him to come back to the A, she put on the full court pressure that he had to leave me, she planned the wedding, and gave him every veiled threat possible that she would confront me if he didn't acquiesce. He even went so far as to lie to her about seeing a lawyer, copied and pasted some stuff off of SI about what to expect when you D, claiming it was from his lawyer (I know, insane!), and basically did everything possible to keep her from confronting me. I can't say this is what your WH is doing. But basically, he's lying like crazy to you, he is most likely doing the same to her.
But most importantly, it really doesn't matter. It's time to take care of you and your life. He's not taking care of you and you can't depend on him. Not now. Get your feet planted firmly on the ground, get your support network in place, and confront. Again, I'm so sorry.


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 342 | Registered: Feb 2013
Topic Posts: 58
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3

Return to Forum: General Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.