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My fears have been verified. I hid a VAR in his vehicle and confirmed that his affair went underground after DDay 2. I also confirmed that it is a PA.

He told her that he is in love with her and wants to be with her, but that he needs time to figure things out. They seemed to be fighting over this, and it sounded like he was being indecisive with her. He was on the phone, I couldn't hear what she was saying. At one point I heard him say, I wish that she would just ask for a divorce (meaning me). He mentioned his fear over hurting the kids, and his reputation.

He doesn't know that I know, and I am not sure if I should tell him. I am afraid that we are not strong enough to handle another blow, and he will leave me to be with her. I have been sitting on this information since yesterday morning, and I really don't know what to do. Based on what he said to her, I'm afraid that if I kick him out, I will be going what he wants and he will never come back.

I have been suspicious all along, but told myself that it was because of circumstance, not because he was still in the A. I am trying to stay calm so that I don't do anything that I will regret later. It's funny how much more calm I was after the third blow.

Has anyone been here? He will not stop seeing her!!! I do not want to call a lawyer, but now I am so scared that I may have no choice. I did 180 for awhile, then we started settling back into our routine. We have small children, so our free time is basically centered around them. MC is uncomfortable at times, but we both felt like we were making great progress. What can I do to save my M? If he really was planning to leave, would he have done it already?

Has anyone been here? He will not stop seeing her!!!

Unfortunately yes.

Take a look at my signature. 12+ OW that I know of and who knows how many that I will never know about. My XWH never wanted to let go of his side pieces either. He wanted ME to leave, so he could be the good guy. Hell, he did everything in his power to make me kick him out (or leave myself) and I kept holding on "for the kids" or because I "didn't believe in divorce". I didn't want my family destroyed, but frankly he'd already done that. Ultimately, I had to admit to myself that I was afraid to let the M go, because I didn't know if I could take care of my kids on my own.

At some point, you have to ask yourself if you're ok with sharing your husband with other women. Are you willing to continue sacrificing your self respect, dignity, and health so that he can have his cake and eat it too.

I made an exit plan and stuck to it. Mine included finishing my education, getting a better paying job, then kicking his butt out.

I ended up kicking him out a few months before I finished my bachelor's degree, but I don't regret it. I found a better job within months of that, so it worked out pretty well.

What lessons do you want your kids to see growing up? Do you want them to learn that it is ok for the father/husband to treat their mother with such disregard and disrespect? What do YOU want to do with the rest of your life?

First things first - (((((alottolose)))))

He told her that he is in love with her and wants to be with her, but that he needs time to figure things out.

Based on what he said to her, I'm afraid that if I kick him out, I will be going what he wants and he will never come back.

Based on what he's said and done, I would say he's got a fence post up his backside. He isn't leaving, and he isn't all in on the marriage. He's fence sitting. My advice? Tear down the fence and make his backside hit the ground.

See a lawyer to find out what the steps are and what you can expect if you D. Arm yourself with knowledge. I'm not saying to file, but I'm telling you to be prepared to. You need to be ready to lose your M if you stand a chance of saving it.

Once you have your information, you lay things out for WH - he either NCs and invests FULLY in the M, or he moves out and you file. No more fence. No more time to "figure things out." He's either in or he's out. If he isn't sure, he's out. Period.

And then you follow through. As counter-intuitive as that may seem. If he leaves, he would have left eventually anyway.

I'm sorry honey. This truly sucks. Sending you strength.

Well...i would say you really are NOT making progress in MC as he is just getting better at lying and that too is all false. Null and Void! Mine did the same. Complained about the cost, but drove there leaving work early to meet me and then LIED through counseling that it was over and I was just being hypersensitive...

If you can, I would meet with an L. I would know your rights and then I would sit him down and lay it out. Think about it... if he really wanted to leave because his love for this OW was so "real", it would be real enough to file himself...

He needs a huge wakeup call. Go see L, file (you don't HAVE to follow through if you decide to R), and present him with his things packed and divorce papers...

Staying because you fear he will run to her will eat you alive... the faking it. DON't be a back up plan. Fact is, if he's gonna go to her, it will happen regardless at some point. My guess is, he won't. Even if he does, reality hitting will be much different than fantasy fairy land and he will realize it soon enough.

I'm sorry you are going through all this. Its so disappointing that they do this shit after seeing hurt and pain the first DDay causes..

I'm so sorry . You must be devastated. This has not happened to me but when I confronted him on DDay I let him go. I wasn't going to have a husband be with me because of his reputation and the kids . I even told him I wouldn't tell the kids why we S. I think that gave him a chance to really realize what he wanted. I stayed calm and just talked about him leaving , I even contacted the OW a a told her she could have him. After a couple days he came to me and asked if we could R and broke it off with her.

I think you need to seriously consider doing this. He thinks this is what he wants but if he really did he would have already done it . Right now he can have both because your letting him. I know it's scary but if you don't you will continue to live in a marriage with three people. You deserve better and so do your kids.

What makes me so sad is the fact that he is still with me for the kids and his reputation...not because he is in love with me. My best case scenario going forward is that I keep him, the lifestyle and my reputation, but my husband loves someone else.

Or he is lying to her too?

What can I do to save my M?

In order to save your M, you need to be willing to let it go.

How did the 180 end? Did it just fizzle out? Did he come around and then pull back?

At this point, you only have 2 options:

1) Confront him and tell him to get out. Make a copy of the VAR recording and then play the copy for him. Do NOT let him have the original. Let him know that, as gut wrenching as it was, you heard him, and you know, and you're done. Give him NO options.

2) Don't confront and let it go on forever. Yes, you'll be unhappy and you'll know he's cheating as he's been doing for years, but you will have your M.

Right now, you've confronted 2 times, and both times he's had no real consequences. He risks nothing by continuing to cheat. By being willing to lose your M, you are telling him that you will NOT tolerate this for one more minute, and if he doesn't choose you and his family, then he will be 100% out. Anything less lets him continue to have it all - wife, children, girlfriend.

If he leaves, then yes, the M is over, but isn't it already over if that is what he would choose? Do you want a H that is there out of obligation and is actually in love with another woman? Of course not. So, he needs to see that he cannot have both. You must be willing to lose the M to force him to decide, once and for all, what matters to him.

If you aren't willing to do this - if you're going to just let him ride out his A, no matter how long it lasts, then why bother confronting? If you're going to let him have a girlfriend, why add to the tension by telling him you know?

I'm so sorry you had to hear him speaking to her like that. How sickening. Do you really want him after all of this? If so, why? Do you want him, or is the thought of him not being there overwhelming and too much to deal with? If the latter is the answer, that's ok. Really, it is. This is hard, and adding the thought of an entire life change makes it harder. There is no shame in the fear that comes with this.

However, if that is it, please, for your sake, find an IC that can help you work through some of this. You deserve so much more than this. He is treating you terribly, and the lies he's told to have already gone through 2 DDays, and now this? No - you deserve more. Much, much more.

((((hugs))))

Gently, those fears you have are holding you hostage. They are keeping you in a situation that is miserable, because you are afraid you might be more miserable if he does in fact want to be without you and goes to be with her when you get serious about seeing a lawyer and asserting your boundaries.

But I just don't see that you could be more miserable than you are now. I don't see that you're saving yourself from worse pain. Rather you're setting yourself up for being hurt further.

If he is only with you out of his own fear for his kids and reputation, it is less than you deserve. Forget about what he wants. Do YOU want to be his second choice? Do YOU want to be M to a man who also has a girlfriend?

Of course you don't! It's not acceptable. So kick him off the fence. If he ends up on her side, well, that's where he was going to end up. You don't control him. You only control what you yourself will and will not accept.

Please see a lawyer and start asserting your absolutely reasonable boundaries. He has crossed them and he needs to see consequences.

Don't hold onto him and this M just because it's what you know. Staying with this limbo because you're afraid of any change is not a viable, healthy option.

[This message edited by norabird at 1:09 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)]

Do you really want to waste the rest of your life being married to someone who feels like they are in love with someone else, but stays because they are concerned about their reputation?

That is not a model WS - and I fear that means a lot mor hurt coming your way in the future.

I think he's living in fairy tale land. Yes, it's all nice, but she's not washing his dirty undies or taking care of poopy diapers. Once the daily grind sets in, I think the fairy tale will end.

Maybe it would be best to just let him leave. I wouldn't file for D just yet. I know it has to be so hard, but I don't think it is true love. It's luurve. And he's going to tell her whatever he thinks she wants to hear. Who knows if that's his true feelings? I'm sure there is a lot of LUST involved.

I'm so sorry. I had little kids when my WH had an A too, and it is so hard. Big hugs

It's both. I love him and I am also afraid to live my life without him.

Based on what I heard, I think that he is hoping that she or I will make the decision for him. This means that if I do threaten divorce, he will happily accept it.

I am very close to taking this route. My pride tells me that I should, but my heart is screaming no!

Based on what I heard and have previously read, I believe hat she is putting a lot of pressure on him, and they are not getting along very well. It sounded like she was treating to leave and he was asking her not to.

If I mention D to him, I will always wonder if I shouldn't have waited a couple of weeks to see if she really does leave and we can truly go into R.

I know the old saying about cheaters, but I truly believe that this was an isolated experience for him, where a shaky marriage was identified and targeted by ow. She told him everything he wanted to hear to make him stray, and it did not happen overnight.

Once she is out of the picture, I believe that we can truly r. Of course, there is always the chance that she will never leave and is just threatening him.

(((Alottolose)))

When is your next MC session? Can you bring the recording to that.....first lay on the table that you are doing everything you can to have a good marriage, that you deeply love your husband and want to have a good life with him (and only him) and your kids. Ask him if he wants the same.

I don't know if your marriage can be saved. But the OW sounds aggressive about him ending it NOW.

Gently....yours has been a marriage without intimacy. I can't see him staying with you and giving up a relationship with her that has intimacy. And is unicorns and rainbows. Has there been progress with intimacy between you two? Is he being faithful to her by not being intimate with you? What does your MC say about your lack of intimacy? I see this as the main reason he can't give her up. Sorry to say that

If you can please see a lawyer for a consultation ASAP. Even if you only talk with them....they will give you direction. Keep the VAR going in the car to collect as much information and evidence as you can. If you can, enlist help from others, family members, etc. I see his parents know already, go to them for help again.

You have to act NOW.

Sending you strength.

Our next MC session is tomorrow, I was considering bringing the recording to the session.

Intimacy has not been discussed lately, but when we did talk about it he has always said that he was happy with our sex life. I have not tried to initiate anything, and neither has he.

I have considered calling my mil today, but haven't yet. I guess I have no choice.

he is hoping that she or I will make the decision for him.

do you really want to be with a guy like this?

(((((hugs)))))

I know this is scary - but do you really want a husband that is with you only because the one he wanted left? What if she comes back?

He needs to choose you. If he doesn't - if he's with you because you were willing to wait the longest - how is that a positive? You'll forever be living in her shadow.

I can't speak for you. I personally would rather live alone than keep my M by default, particularly when I heard him tell her he wanted me to leave him. In fact, knowing me- I would have already thrown him out.

You really don't need to accept being the default wife. Is this really what you want? Do you really think he will genuinely R just because OW left the picture?

What if she calls his bluff and leaves, and then he leaves to chase her? Wouldn't you rather be the one calling his bluff and forcing him to make a real decision?

He's an amazing coward - I'll say this for him. Years of no decisions, hoping one of you will leave so that he doesn't need to actually find the right answer.

I'm surprised anyone wants him given that he's too gutless to move forward after 2 years, and he keeps lying to everyone because he's too weak to actually act like a man.

You don't need to keep your M simply because someone else didn't want that. You know you deserve better than that. Don't accept less than you deserve, and right now, he is absolutely less.

What makes me so sad is the fact that he is still with me for the kids and his reputation...not because he is in love with me.

To me this pretty much sums up where you stand in his life. And it also would have made a decision for me to show his ass the door. The bottom line here my friend is that YOU and only YOU can change things. If your willing to play second, third, fourth fiddle in his life, well then I wish you luck. But if your as smart as I think you are, your gonna knock his ass off the damn fence. Your only problem right now is fear. Overcome the fear and your heart will guide you the rest of the way. Don't be afraid my friend, we all have been in your shoes. But once you find your courage and say enough is enough, your life is going to be so much better for it. Find that courage and find a better life. I wish you peace.

Using a VAR was how I verified my STBXH cheating the first time. I never told him how I found out. We reconciled, but 10 years later I had suspicions again. I used the VAR again and sure enough, he was. DON'T tell him about the VAR. If you reconcile and he decides to cheat again, you will have given up one of your ways of finding out.

DON'T tell him about the VAR. If you reconcile and he decides to cheat again, you will have given up one of your ways of finding out.

I agree.

During MC, you can just simply say, "I know that you're still in the A".

When asked for proof, you can say (and repeat), "I will not disclose how I know this information".

Don't put all your cards on the table. They WILL be used against you by an unremorseful WS.

Thank you you all so much for your replies. I hope that I can get through this paralyzing fear and find the courage to walk away.

I experiencing so many emotions right now that I am basically numb. I acted normal last night, and haven't skipped a beat with my kids. I know that this calm probably won't last, but in this very moment it feels better than confrontation. I wish that I had more strength.

When he told the OW "I wish she would just divorce me", this is a common comment made by WH to keep the OW on the line. He also stated he didn't want his reputation ruined and also worried about his kids.

Your WH is a cake eating POS. So was mine!

He knows his job is on the line, he also knows you are a SAHM and after CS and alimony he won't have much money left. As many others have said, you have to be willing to risk your Marriage to save your marriage.

Pack his bags, or better yet, pack your bag and go to your MIL. Come home in morning to take care of kids during day, and leave when he gets home. See an attorney, let him know.

If you see remorse, true remorse, then you will know if this marriage is worth fighting for. Get strong, and I do know this is easier said than done, but it will prevent a whole lot more heartbreak in the end.

I also have a feeling if you were to leave him he would never end up with this OW and would probably be banging on your door for forgiveness!