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User Topic: Feedback From Sex (Maybe tmi)
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, I was reading a thread in NB the other day and the posters were all sort of giggly laughing about some dude who sucked in bed and his lack of technique, whatever. No big deal, really, just harmless girl talk type stuff...and it kind of triggered me, and it was hard to put a finger on why.

I think it's because one of the worries for the BH (but really, all BS probably) is that the OM was better in the sack than them.

It just kind of sent me off in the direction of thinking, "Well, do my exes (or even my wife) talk about me like that?" I know that I shouldn't really care, but it's hard for me to wrap my head around. I don't talk to anyone outside of my wife about my sex life...and I never really have.

I think another aspect of it is that my wife gives, like, zero feedback in that department. She's a CSAB survivor, so I know that can make things in the sex, intimacy, and body awareness departments all wonky. That being said, it has been frustrating in our relationship to never know if she likes something, or doesn't, or what she likes more than something else. I've asked plenty, the only answer I receive is "I don't know what I like." or "It's fine (said in a reassuring tone)".

It's like shooting free throws without being able to see the hoop; you have no idea if you're missing completely, hitting the rim, or scoring nothing-but-net...and so you have no way to fine tune your technique.

I'm sure someone is going to come along and tell me to pay attention to her body, but her body (outside of oral sex ) provides zero feedback as well. It's a difficult subject to really bring up as well, because I know she feels bad/awkward about not being able to tell me what she likes.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
silverhopes
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Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's like shooting free throws without being able to see the hoop; you have no idea if you're missing completely, hitting the rim, or scoring nothing-but-net...and so you have no way to fine tune your technique.

I can imagine that's very difficult, especially because communicating around sex is so very important. I think people get into the trap of assuming that natural chemistry and body know-how will take over and make it "explosive" or, if it doesn't, then somehow one partner "doesn't have it" - but like everything, sex takes work and it's supposed to. Why? Because there are two people involved.

Wish I had advice. If she's still working through CSAB, then there will be deeper issues to work through. But that doesn't make it easy on either of you. If she's saying that she doesn't know what she likes, then she might still be putting distance between herself and sexual intimacy, and there might be a lot of pain she's distancing herself from. That means there is a lot more work to go through. There's this great book: The Sexual Healing Journey by Wendy Maltz. Gentle, thorough book, and it might help her to identify where the pain still lies, the specific areas where she needs help healing. There's another one (I haven't begun reading yet, but have it) called "Allies in Healing" by Laura Davis - came in highly recommended in the Sexual Abuse Survivors ICR thread. H and I are both survivors, though with very different reactions to our traumas, so the confusion and hurt on both sides makes a lot of sense.

I think it's because one of the worries for the BH (but really, all BS probably) is that the OM was better in the sack than them.

It just kind of sent me off in the direction of thinking, "Well, do my exes (or even my wife) talk about me like that?"

Both of these completely make sense. And imo it seems rather shallow to sit around and rate partners in bed - how much would it hurt a current partner to be compared to a past one, or in the case of an A, one who was present in a supposedly exclusive relationship? We don't like being compared to others for good reason, and sexually for a lot of people can be one of the most vulnerable times. Who wants to be told that their vulnerability wasn't "nearly as sexy" as another person's vulnerability, or that they suck at their most vulnerable? No one. It doesn't feel good.

It's a difficult subject to really bring up as well, because I know she feels bad/awkward about not being able to tell me what she likes.

Has she ever talked about what she doesn't like? Has she ever talked about the abuse?


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
AFrayedKnot
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Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm right there with you. Zero feedback. Its so frustrating. Not for me but for me wanting to please her.

If it wasn't for very positive responses from partners in my past Iwould question myself.

But it would still be nice to be able to fine tune it just for her.


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2628 | Registered: Aug 2012
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has she ever talked about what she doesn't like?
Not really. Her exact words are "I don't know what I like and don't like."
Has she ever talked about the abuse?
At length, no. I mean, she told me about it really early on. Probably inappropriately early, looking back. I know who it was, what happened, the circumstances involved, etc. She's only barely touched upon the confusing emotional aspects of it one time, while we were watching "The Perks of Being A Wallflower".

I always sort of figured that it's not my right to push her in this area even a little...any exploration of the stuff in that part of her attic needs to be done by her with someone who's experienced working with that stuff. I'm an open ear, but I'm never going to bring it up on my own. I know that's not what you're saying, silver, just wanted to be clear on what the context of that aspect of our relationship was/is.

One other aspect that is sort of...mmm....troubling(?) to me is this: in the past the only time she seemed like she was 'into' sex, was when we'd have a few drinks. By 'into', I mean being an mindfully active participant verbally, physically, or both. More than few drinks, however, and she just got sloppy and overly aggressive, or super passive to the point of making me feel uncomfortable with having sex with someone that drunk, wife or not. If I rejected her, she threw a tantrum and took it personally and I felt like shit for not wanting to have sex with my wife, while simultaneously feeling like she was stepping all over my sexual boundaries. I don't like having sex where it feels like I'm doing something TO her, as opposed to WITH her, you know?

However, even in those circumstances it still never felt 'real'...it felt like she was acting out how she thought 'sexy girls' act in bed. Now, before the affair I just kind of went with it more often than not, because, "Hey, we're married, we're just buzzing and having fun." The affair was mixed together with a TON of drinking, though. One of the reasons she sought out her AP (I mean him specifically) was that he drank too much as well, she she knew he wouldn't judge her when she wanted to get loaded.

There's no real point to all that info, really other than to say that it's all super confusing sexually and emotionally. I'm not the kind of person who can have sex without intimacy, and it gets frustrating and hurtful sometimes.

[This message edited by Ascendant at 1:40 PM, March 18th (Tuesday)]


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silver-

I've read the "Allies in Healing" book. I found it to be helpful to a degree, but my wife is *just* starting to work on the abuse stuff in therapy, so maybe I should re-read it. Her and her IC are focused on the drinking aspect right now.

If it wasn't for very positive responses from partners in my past Iwould question myself.

But it would still be nice to be able to fine tune it just for her.

Right. I mean, I've never had any complaints, but including my wife I've only had 3 sexual partners. Also, my sense from hearing women talk to each other is that the common belief is that men's egos are too fragile to handle criticism of their bedroom technique, so my past experiences may have been shielding me from criticism, despite the fact that I've told each person I've had sex with to be honest with me about areas that could use some *ahem* work.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
IWantDoOver
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Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, guys.

If something needed improvement -- How exactly would you like to told? When?

and it kind of triggered me,

EXACTLY! Don't want to trigger a negative feedback loop with my guy during future sexual playtime.


Peace

Posts: 212 | Registered: Jun 2013
silverhopes
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Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One other aspect that is sort of...mmm....troubling(?) to me is this: in the past the only time she seemed like she was 'into' sex, was when we'd have a few drinks. By 'into', I mean being an mindfully active participant verbally, physically, or both. More than few drinks, however, and she just got sloppy and overly aggressive, or super passive to the point of making me feel uncomfortable with having sex with someone that drunk, wife or not. If I rejected her, she threw a tantrum and took it personally and I felt like shit for not wanting to have sex with my wife, while simultaneously feeling like she was stepping all over my sexual boundaries. I don't like having sex where it feels like I'm doing something TO her, as opposed to WITH her, you know?

Those are your instincts telling you what is and isn't healthy. I think you did right to listen to them. You were listening to your boundaries and trying to respect hers. That's important. Don't doubt your instincts or feelings of discomfort.

One of the reasons she sought out her AP (I mean him specifically) was that he drank too much as well, she she knew he wouldn't judge her when she wanted to get loaded.

So, someone who was OK with having unhealthy relations with her. Possibly recreating some of the abuse? Definitely not an excuse… In IC, it might be necessary to look at it from both the betrayal angle - what she did to you and your marriage by having an affair - and from the survivor angle - was she recreating the circumstances of the abuse and was she trying to either hurt herself more or somehow change the outcome of the abuse? Both need to be dealt with and one doesn't excuse the other.

I would say, even as she does the work on the abuse in therapy, don't let it discount your feelings and your pain as a BS. I know sometimes it can seem harder to bring up the A and the healing around it in light of past abuses that the WS suffered (Mr. Silver and I are struggling with some similar stuff right now, and we're MHs so that means extra-super-duper eggshell dancing!). Your pain and her actions are real and serious. There must be a way to balance working on the different issues.

Also, my sense from hearing women talk to each other is that the common belief is that men's egos are too fragile to handle criticism of their bedroom technique

Not all women. Mindreading is overrated lol.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
AFrayedKnot
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Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Personally in the moment would be the best. Faster, slower, a little to the left, a little to the right, why dont you try this, oh yea right there.

When I ask if she likes some thing. I get "sometimes". I dont know which times are sometimes. It really is like shooting freethrows in the dark.


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2628 | Registered: Aug 2012
yearsofpain25
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Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow this is a loaded question and has so many levels to it I'm not sure where to begin.

Let me start with this. I'm married to someone who was sexually abused in a few of her relationships and was always busy trying to keep guys out of her pants. My wife had many hang ups and never had an orgasm before I was with her. Sex to her was never fun before me. She perceived it as a necessary evil to being in a relationship. Very sad and I hate that this happens to so many women. It's a really long story but she has developed a bit of OCPD because of the abuse. Just a few weeks ago we realized that her OCPD had crept into the bedroom at some point that she has to schedule sex and needs a script to get through it. It's her way of controlling sex. She's always nervous at first but she pushes past the first few minutes and then she loses herself and we can have explosive sex. It's hard and scary for her to lose complete control but we are able to push through it together. I never push her. I'm comfortable with whatever she wants to do including NOT having sex. Can never force her as that makes the situation worse.

She had no idea how to give feedback. She couldn't even talk about sex until very recently so when I would ask her I would get the "I don't know what I like." Or "I don't have any fantasies." "I don't have anything that I specifically like for you to do." Can be maddening. Something I quickly addressed right at the very beginning because feedback is so important, is to ask questions when she is in a good place mentally. DO NOT bring questions up when in the bedroom. Not immediately before, not during, not after. Ask her when she's in a good place if you can ask her a question without her being defensive. Tell her you really want to know how something feels for her. Ask her if she likes it when you do xyz. Ask her what she did or didn't like about it and how it makes her feel. LEAVE IT AT ONE QUESTION AND THEN MOVE ON. My wife is good for all of about 30 seconds of sex talk and then she's overwhelmed and can't talk about it anymore. She literally shuts down on the subject.

It's even tougher if her body is not giving you signals. I at least always got that from my wife. However, I was also with another woman for 3 years who could never have an orgasm and gave zero feedback physically or verbally. Some really dark shit started coming out in the bedroom the last year of our relationship. Although she never said, I'm fairly certain she was sexually abused by her father. That relationship did a number on me sexually. My confidence was completely crushed afterwards and I thought it was all me. It wasn't until the women I slept with afterwards I realized, and was told, that it wasn't me. It was her.

Start with the one question thing every now and then and see how she reacts to it. I'd be more than happy to pm back and forth with some of the things that we've done to get through some of this stuff.

The thing to keep in mind is that every woman is so different. I get that's why the feedback is so important. And not only is each woman different, but each woman is different on any given day. What they liked yesterday may not be what they want today, but they may want it again tomorrow. It's a really tough which is why the communication is so important. That's why ONS are not nearly as fulfilling sexually as they are when you REALLY know someone.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2179 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
yearsofpain25
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Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How exactly would you like to told? When?

I want to know. But never during the event as it's an absolute killer for both parties. The little to the left thing and providing directions is needed. But if they can't talk, then talk is needed outside the bedroom.

Personally I love it when a woman can tell me exactly what she wants. Then you can expand on it and take it to other levels.

The HOW is really big too. Something like....I LOVE it when you do xyz. Next time could you do wxyz? It would make it even better for me. Or, You know when you did abc? Well, that didn't really work for me, but efg would be fantastic.

Eh. When did sex become alphabet soup?


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2179 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silver-

Not all women. Mindreading is overrated lol.
You're absolutely correct. I try really hard not to generalize in posts, sometimes in still creeps in. Thanks for oh-so-gently setting me straight.

I do agree that some people take the view that sex is all instant chemistry and whatnot. I think you can have new and exciting sex that way, but to have sex that has a deeper and more intimate connection it takes time and patience.

IWDO-

So yeah, I think *in the act* is a good time to be short and to the point. To the left, faster, slower, softer, harder, etc. Verbs, I guess. Actions or directions. Some people may vary on this point, but that's what I'd like. I think afterwards or in a separate conversation is a great time to expand a little bit: "I like when you do X, Y, or Z..." or "when you whisper X, Y, or Z in my ear...". It's like a boundaries statement, but in a positive way: When you do A, I feel B.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
IWantDoOver
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Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One vote for during the act,
One vote for after the act.


Peace

Posts: 212 | Registered: Jun 2013
yearsofpain25
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Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To be clear my vote is based on having sex with someone who was sexually abused who cannot talk about sex during the act. Otherwise, during is good.

In either case some directions, left, right, up, down, sideways, is needed.

The discussion of what types of sexual things such as positions, techniques, toys, anything adventurous, etc should be outside the bedroom. No surprises.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2179 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
GotPlayed
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Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ah, a Menz TMI sex thread. Wooot!

Like Ascendant, WW and I only talked about her CSAB once or twice, and only with her prompting it. The first time was right after our first sexual experience together - she recounted her entire romantic history with a fair amount of detail, including the CSAB. Until right now that you mention it I hadn't realized how inappropriately early that was. We were together 18 years though, and our sex life was happy (it didn't stop until almost the day of separation, so she seemed to be enjoying it).

Turns out there's all kinds of ways to grow apart sexually, particularly as any sexual growth she has will be severely twisted by her FOO stuff (I am writing a TMI t/j on that) - in a couple you can deal with that together, but during an A it will wreck havoc as there's no real intimacy to help work it through. Yet another reason why As are unjustifiable drivel. I don't know if that's a trigger now for me - I don't feel like I have any sexual triggers but I haven't had sex with anyone else, so there's no precedent (I didn't trigger sexually during the attempt at R or hysterical bonding).

Luckily, I am fully aware that I had an uncommunicative, broken partner (she was way better at the beginning) and I can't wait to meet a woman with no FOO to have some real fun with (after clicking personally of course). Ascendant, you can't let her put her FOO on you - guess what? A lot of this is her own insecurity as well. Work on your own stuff, we have enough to worry about and deal with as it is.

Assume insecure, shallow woman talk like that about their partners, just like insecure, childish men talk about "what hot sex they had last night with XXX" in boorish terms at the local bar (sorry guys). But it's nothing about you, and nobody worthwhile is going to laugh at you because of some stupid hearsay. The kind of woman you and I should be attracting wouldn't care and would assume it could also have been something she did wrong, as it takes 2 to tango.

In a way I'm lucky she was more experienced than me, as she really enjoyed sex with me for 17 of the 18 years. So I'm at least better than her exes. Remember sexual compatibility can take a few tries, and if you have WW/XWW in your mind you'll never think about the woman you have in front of you - that's the real recipe for sexual dissatisfaction for both of you. And sexual compatibility is about you and her, nobody else.

Something else that should make you proud - CSAB women are often notoriously difficult to get to orgasm. That alone is an accomplishment right there. You should feel proud that she married you - you were doing something very right. Get back in touch with that feeling.

As for @IWantDoOver, that's a great question. I'd say, as a guy, definitely not mention anything during the act, or right after. Maybe later, over lunch or dinner, as you're getting in "anticipation talk", you could suggest it in a positive note. As in "you know what would be great? if you (XXXXX improvement).. that would make me feel so.... " then concentrate on how it would make you feel, being a bit graphic and sexy - essentially turn it into part of the flirtatious game - have fun with it! The playful anticipation would make me want to improve to please as opposed to thinking there's "something wrong". Attitude is everything.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 755 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
tushnurse
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Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I personally think you are dealing with a too much at once. Infidelity, Sex abuse, and alcohol issues. One thing at a time.

I would also suggest seeing a sexual therapist.

Perfomance in bed, and how we rate our partners has more to do with how they treat us, and make us feel than size, technique, stamina, or any of that stuff. IT is much more about feeling loved, the center of their world, and so forth.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
stupidgurl
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Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NO Stop sign so I hope it is ok for ww's to give advice.

First, accept that some people, abused or not, are just quiet, tame lovers. They don't want the kids to hear, and they don't want the neighbors to hear. It doesn't mean they are not experiencing pleasure. If you want her to get loud maybe rent a cabin in the woods and tell her "I rented a cabin, it will be just us in the woods and we are going to make loud and crazy sex in there honey" then cherish that memory. The fact that you arranged it and everything will probably turn her on on the spot.

I understand your frustration on the lack of feedback. Have you tried to lead by example. As a WW myself, I know that we are needy when it comes to our H attention, and seeing excitement from our spouse, so, let her know what you like "I love it when you..." it makes us feel sexier to hear we are bringing such pleasure to you also. So lets say when you are in bed with her holding hands or cuddling share something you like in bed and ask her if she likes it too, or ask her to share something she likes in bed. Scratch that, you have to be like "I looooove it!"


me WW/BW-31
him BH/WH- 31

2002/3 (him) EA

PA(me)-Nov 2007

Tog. 14 yrs, Marr. 13 and counting!

R'd


Posts: 138 | Registered: Sep 2012
AFrayedKnot
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Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

T/J or not

Why are you looking to someone or something to validate your own self worth?


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2628 | Registered: Aug 2012
GotPlayed
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Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^^^^ This.

Sex is very much about self worth. Value yourself, value your partner, and you'll get better at it. Seriously.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 755 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
Jrazz
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Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I feel like Crazz and I are on the opposite end of this spectrum. I had more partners than he did (although he tried to narrow the gap, bless his heart.) This was a blessing and a curse as I got to know what I liked and learned more things, but when the excitement/newness wore off for Crazz he began to develop some kind of jealousy or inferiority complex. When he gets stressed out he falls back into comfort zones. When it comes to sex that means a playbook that he knows instinctively and nothing else.

Our problem was that I WAS giving feedback, and it was hurting his feelings. "Why don't you try this?" or "I would like it if you did this" made him feel like I was comparing him to past encounters and judging him. He just wanted to hear that he was the biggest and the best, end of conversation.

This and other things obviously led to marital problems, and instead of having a dialog about sex with me he went outside the marriage. Post DDay (and during HB especially) he was open to new ideas, but we're falling back into old patterns of his needing to just do what he does and not feeling judged for that. To be perfectly honest, my ideas come from not being entirely fulfilled - but I never try to put it on him or make him feel badly. I always try to broach it as things we can do together. It just gets awkward when he does something I don't like and then gets upset when I ask him not to. Part of what he does via routine is actually a trigger back to CSA I experienced twice when I was young. (I cannot be kissed on the arm. Ever. He has known this for 10 years and tried to do it every time we have sex. Some times I cringe and bear it and hope he stops. If I ask him to stop he gets mad at himself and leaves the room. I don't understand why he can't control himself not to but he does it almost every time unless I expressly remind him before sex, which pretty much kills the mood.)

Sorry, I guess I get a personal trigger when hearing about sex and feedback because we're still in a pattern where I can't ask for anything new without upsetting him.

Not to t/j (that's a lie - I'm threadjacking all over) but I'd love some advice on a way to ask a guy who is afraid of change and confrontation or criticism how we could make some improvements in bedroom.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17785 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
GotPlayed
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Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, March 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@stupidgurl - No offense, but that triggers me a bit. WW and OM went to the forest and the beach to do it. When we went to the forest, it was with the kids. He wasn't married, so they would also simply go to his house. They screamed and moaned and I got to hear a sound file of it.

They were going to buy a place to rent out with units in said forest. They had the whole fantasy planned.

Read up on the Madonna/Whore syndrome. I was the Madonna. He was the whore. WW was the sick person who thought like that.

I do see and agree with your point though, and it's definitely important to make adult space in a relationship with children, but going out of the M to get that adult space is the ultimate in betrayal. And very, very typical. To then turn around and use that as part of the excuse says more about the betrayer than about the betrayed.

Bottom line, she could have done the same thing ("BS, let's go to the forest, you and me, and....!!!" instead of bitching about it after having an A. Capisce? Like a family member used to say about people not calling each other on the phone - "it's as easy to dial a number from point A to point B than from point B to point A".

[This message edited by GotPlayed at 4:09 PM, March 18th, 2014 (Tuesday)]


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 755 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
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