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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Your Soul
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, I don't think it's absolutely necessary to change those part of yourself, Aubrie, unless they are in some way unhealthy. That kind of stuff is just your personality. You and QS sound like a mix of my wife and I. My wife would be perfectly content going to sleep at 2 or 3 in the morning and waking up at noon every day....but I'm a morning person, I like to be up at about 7-ish, and so I like to go to bed by 11:00 PM, midnight at the latest. I honestly just chalked it up to differences in personality, until it became apparent that she was staying up late and talking to OM and getting drunk and couldn't get up with me in the morning to help get my son ready for school. That's when it became an issue, KWIM, because it was no longer just her personality, it began to adversely affect others. On the other hand, I'm sort of like you in that when I get an idea or inspiration I want to get it out of my head right away. My focus center can be a little all-or-nothing, and it tends to drive my wife bugnuts at times.

There is no standard template for what a 'healthy person' looks like...'healthy Aubrie' is going to look different than 'healthy QS' or 'healthy Ascendant'. Some of those traits are just your quirks; your individualism. Trying to suppress those to appease someone else is no more authentic than trying to be something you're not, provided that you're not harming yourself or others in the process.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Althea
♀ Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm turning 35 in the Fall. I also have a history of mega-insecurity and body image issues. Pregnancy and childbirth made A LOT of permanent changes to my body. I'm a small person and those babies didn't have a lot of room to grow, so they stretched everything WAY out. My body is nothing like it was in my 20's, but man do I love it and myself so much more. I spent my 20's acting out my shame and hating so many parts of myself. The great body and good looks, the successful career and full social calendar meant nothing unless I had outside validation and attention. On paper, I had everything one is *supposed* to have by age 30; and it meant absolutely nothing unless someone told me it did.

Then, there's my 30's, which on paper have been pretty awful. I had two very difficult pregnancies, and PPD. I gave up my career at least temporarily and have had difficulty transitioning back to work. We moved cross country leaving all of our friends and most of our support system. My husband cheated on me in multiple EA's from the time of my first pregnancy at age 29, and then ultimately had a PA a few years later. The fallout and healing effort from his A has resulted in losing contact with a number of friends and even siblings. Despite all of this, I will say unequivocally that my 30's have been SO SO SO much better than my 20's; and the happiness I have known in the last 5 years, even when it seemed to be overshadowed by the sadness, was something I was incapable of feeling in my 20's. As for the body: it is the body of a woman in her 30's that ran a half marathon; gave birth to children; learned to swim laps (I previously preferred to float and expend as little energy as possible in the water); healed itself in physical therapy after giving birth and after hard falls; and survived the trauma of finding out about my husband's infidelity. It is a STRONG body; and it houses a strong heart, mind, and character, things I never had before I turned 30.

Your 30's are going to be amazing Aubrie. I am excited for you.


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 441 | Registered: Dec 2012
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you dream now?

No....but I am ready to start again. But not my dream per se. But OUR dream.

Between her issues, A issues, my health issues, money issues, kid issues we have gotten stuck in just making it through the day, holding pattern if you will.

Broevil and I were talking about this this morning.

She has never shared any specific dreams or goals with me. I don't know if she has them. She doesn't know if she has them. "I want to be happy, I want to get better." But in the planning mind that I have, I want to know what that looks like...specifically. Does that include me? Does that include the kids? Career? Home? Hobbies? Pets? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN!!!!

We were talking about the cliche. "Its not where we were that counts, but where we are going" Where are we going? As individuals and a couple, where do we want to be in 6 months, a year, two years, 5, 10 years. Without a goal and a plan to get there it just seems like work.

If there was more shared goal and dream communication. I would be willing to compromise some and hope she would compromise some to find a mutual dream to work toward.

Before I start dreaming again I need to know that we are both on the same team working toward the same goals.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2527 | Registered: Aug 2012
SpotlessMind
♀ Member
Member # 41775
Wink  Posted: 11:40 AM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie, I can relate to your last post a bit. I'm not nearly as structured as your husband, but I do seem to do better with more order than my husband, who could thrive in utter chaos.

I'm indecisive--I fret over every decision--while he is impulsive and spontaneous. I actually think these traits can be complimentary. I plan the things that need planning, like extended trips, etc, but he makes sure we do things sometimes on the spur of the moment, so we don't stagnate. Different personality traits don't have to be aggravating--I think it's all in the way you approach at them.

That's not to say that we don't have our moments. My husband has ADHD, and sometimes I do just want to scream at the mess and my perception that he isn't following through on important things. But I also know that when I get super critical, a lot of that is on ME. It's coming from my FOO issues. When I keep my issues in mind, too, it helps me approach him and our relationship from a more balanced perspective.

Sometimes, I think it's just a matter of learning to celebrate our partner's differences rather than criticizing them. My husband would not be my husband if he completely lost his spontaneity and creativity, and I'd never expect or even remotely want him to do that for me(and I really needed this reminder myself, so thank you for posting.)

I imagine that deep down, QS feels the same way about you.

Now, if hubby wanted to start picking up his dirty plates and undies more, I wouldn't complain... :)


fWS/BS--me
BH/WH--him
Married: 12 yrs
D-Day: October
Kids: yes

Posts: 277 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Where am I?
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We were talking about the cliche. "Its not where we were that counts, but where we are going" Where are we going? As individuals and a couple, where do we want to be in 6 months, a year, two years, 5, 10 years. Without a goal and a plan to get there it just seems like work.

If there was more shared goal and dream communication. I would be willing to compromise some and hope she would compromise some to find a mutual dream to work toward.

Before I start dreaming again I need to know that we are both on the same team working toward the same goals.

I think there's a lot of wisdom in planning goals together, Chicho. It cements the future. Not that it has to be inflexible, but having 1-2-5-10 years goals makes it more of a 'team mentality' in the marriage, I think. It fosters feelings of building towards something together.

I also think that it's super important in the long-term goal-planning process to have it be a joint venture, like you said. If one person is uninterested in setting any long-term goals, beside being vaguely unsettling, it also could lead to resentment down the line if one person takes the lead on setting goals 'for the couple' or 'for the marriage'. Having buy-in from both partners prevents one of them from saying down the line "Well, I didn't want to do it, it was your idea!".


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

did either of you get married with the expectation of the other changing?
Hmmm. I don't know. 5454, I have no idea what I was thinking. I remember seeing strength, safety, and stability. He was an anchor. I craved that in my life. But it seems that the storm in me was more than his anchor could handle. I whipped us thru life like a hurricane.

He's said many time he knew I "had issues" but felt in the right environment, I would flourish. And yeah, I probably would have. If I'd recognized I had issues to begin with. But guess who didn't feel that there was anything wrong with them?

I'm trying to think back. Will make for a good conversation tonight.

Chicho, I don't really have dreams or goals. Those I had were never good enough or were shot down. If life threw me a curveball and I was trying to improvise, I was still beat down.

Being a dental hygeinist wasn't good enough. I should be the dentist that runs the whole practice. After all, that's a better story to tell the extended family.

QS wasn't good enough. My dad was embarrassed I married him. QS was a nobody. He came from nothing. (He didn't come from status or old money like my ex)

The two jobs I had after I got married were an embarrassment to my dad. I could do better. Why was I selling myself short? However, I'd had a back injury that took years to heal from. My "dream job" would have killed me. Leaning over someone's face day after day, I knew my body couldn't handle it. I took two "chump" jobs while I figured out what to do.

I mean, these are only a couple examples. My dreams, wants, and desires were never good enough. They were stupid or ridiculous. Dad would pull rank and talk me into this awesome idea he had. And because I thought that parents look out for the best interest of their children, I went along with a lot of it. Somewhere along the way, I quit dreaming. It wasn't worth it. I clung to short term. As long as I had/have QS and my children, I really don't care. Throw whatever you got at me Life, I can and will improvise.

If I do dream/plan, I don't say anything. Because I'm afraid its stupid or will be scoffed at. Or I will be ridiculed if I don't accomplish my dream. And I have fear of even trying some dreams. Because *I* will know I didn't accomplish it. And I should know better than to fall and miss the mark.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes, I think it's just a matter of learning to celebrate our partner's differences rather than criticizing them. My husband would not be my husband if he completely lost his spontaneity and creativity, and I'd never expect or even remotely want him to do that for me(and I really needed this reminder myself, so thank you for posting.)

I imagine that deep down, QS feels the same way about you.

I tried for years to greet him at the door with a hug and a kiss. He would brush me off. I felt ignored. But he has his routine. And after a veeeery long time, I learned to just deal. Now when I hear the back door I yell, "Hi Babe" from whichever corner of the house I'm in and when he's done doing his thing, he comes to find me. Only then do I get my hug and kiss. Drives me nuts, but its just his thing. And I can accept that.

I think he loves my creativity, but maybe just not the messy process? I dunno. He is planned, steady, and methodical. I'm sporadic and quite klutzy. Like last week. I had a guest coming in for the weekend. I was cleaning house and working on a project for my bathroom wall. My day was "sorta" mapped out,and I knew what I could/couldn't do before company arrived. But I banged my leg on the table, I sloshed the wood stain, then forgot, went to seal the can up, and ended up with oil based stain ALL over my face, in my eye, on my clothes, and the kitchen. Enter a panicked call to QS and Poison Control. A 20 minute shower later and mineral spirits to scrub the kitchen down, all was well. I finished my day.

He went batty. First, he never would have sloshed the stain. And IF he had, he would have remembered and not sprayed it everywhere as he sealed the lid back on. Which means he wouldn't have gotten it in his eyes, or had to call Poison Control, or flush his eyes for 20 minutes. I dealt with the issue as it unfolded, and he's over there just loosing his mind it happened to begin with. That kind of thing drives. him. nuts. To me, it happened and made for a story to tell my girlfriend later. And oddly, a memory. Because every time I see that art on my bathroom wall, I remember the craziness that happened when I made it. Kwim?

I dunno. He's super anal. And while I don't understand it, its ok. Do your thing. I'll be over here playing with glitter.


[This message edited by Aubrie at 12:17 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I clung to short term......I can and will improvise.

Gently...How did that work for you and QS?

I only say that because I see a lot of you guys in us.

Maybe its time to try something new.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2527 | Registered: Aug 2012
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gently...How did that work for you and QS?
Obviously not very well.

Even still, he tries to come up with a plan and I'm like, "Whatever you want to do, lets do it. Just tell me what to do." I don't trust myself to come up with and carrry out a big, long term dream/goal.

1. I'm scared to fall.

2. I'm scared that in falling, I'll disappoint and ruin QS again.

So isn't it best to let him call the shots? He had a better grip on his life than I ever had. I don't want to screw up anymore. And I don't want to hurt him anymore. God I don't want to hurt him.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are the content of your character. You are the ambitions that drive you. You are the goals that you set. You are the things that you laugh at and the words that you say. You are the thoughts you think and the things you wonder.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2527 | Registered: Aug 2012
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Busted.

Maybe I should have left the goal line out. *sigh*

Thanks Chicho. I'm thinking.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok. So I've been mulling this over. Chicho, your comments got under my skin. Which is technically good. I think.

I guess I do have "dreams" or goals or whatever you wanna call them. I just don't really get past it being just a dream to a reality. I wait for me to screw up or someone tell me its stupid. I don't know how to voice it, then have the confidence to follow thru. I mean, looking in the mirror and starting to fix myself is probably the only thing hard I've done and so far, followed thru. One thing right in a lifetime of screw ups. (Yes, there are more. But at times, it feels like everything I've ever done is wrong/bad, Kwim?)

Goals. Dreams. From the ridiculous and absurd to the practical and responsible. Just start writing stuff down? And is ridiculous and absurd allowed? Ok then what? How exactly does one prioritize them? Are some goals allowed to be flexible? What if I don't know if I can handle something long term? Can I give myself an "out" option? Or is that being chicken? And why in the world am I this old and still don't know how to do this stuff!?

And I have no idea how this thread took such a left turn.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fixing yourself is probably the hardest thing you'll ever do. other things may be scary, but nothing as hard as what you've already accomplished.

how could this thread get here? Ummmmm you're the one who wanted to look inside!


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2551 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

how could this thread get here? Ummmmm you're the one who wanted to look inside!
Smartypants.

I *think* I can do it. Still fighting some residual fear.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie, have you ever tried using SMART goals, or something similar? I'm all over the place myself with starting and not finishing stuff, being drawn in too many directions, etc. Scatterbrained would be a good adjective for me. I did two things that really helped me: I did an in-depth personality assessment through a personal coaching agency that was basically an individualized SWOT analysis, and then I did a couple of goal-setting clinics with the same person. It did wonders for me, really. Life changing. It gave me a system to use instead of just attempting to do it all mentally and failing, which left me feeling .


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry for the left turn

I thought about t/j it to another new thread but we are not supposed to take discussions from here to another forum.

I have been thinking a lot about this. I have lived in a lot of fear stemming from broevil lack of forward thinking. There are huge positives from being able to live in the moment but when it is taken to an extreme it becomes a defect.

Having plans, goals, and dreams TOGETHER implies a vested interest in each other. Like Ascendant said:

I think there's a lot of wisdom in planning goals together, Chicho. It cements the future. Not that it has to be inflexible, but having 1-2-5-10 years goals makes it more of a 'team mentality' in the marriage, I think. It fosters feelings of building towards something together.

The more I look at it the more I see that it is not just a desire of mine but a NEED. It is an example of security that is a basic human need.

I have tested broevil for this for years even before dday. Can she stick to a monthly budget? Can she plan meals for a week? Can she keep track of family/kids activities? and I still do. Every day when I ask "whats for dinner?" and she says "I don't know I haven't thought about it yet." It reinforces in my head that she can't even plan 10 hours in the future. If I can't count on her for the little things, how can I count on her for the big ones.

This dance is just as defective on my part as it is hers I know we need to break it.

Dinner is on time, but my project is laying out on the coffee table. So many times he comes home and doesn't look at the million things I did that day, but the one thing I didn't.

This has me thinking that we are going about it backwards. Instead of looking at the day to day routine as evidence of security, would more communication and agreement about longer term goals create the trust needed to allow more flexibility in the day to day, just knowing that ultimately we are both moving in the same direction in our own ways.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2527 | Registered: Aug 2012
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Totally ok to t/j Chicho.

I have tested broevil for this for years even before dday. Can she stick to a monthly budget? Can she plan meals for a week? Can she keep track of family/kids activities? and I still do. Every day when I ask "whats for dinner?" and she says "I don't know I haven't thought about it yet." It reinforces in my head that she can't even plan 10 hours in the future. If I can't count on her for the little things, how can I count on her for the big ones.
Ok yeah. I can relate cause that was me not so long ago. So I guess I *have* made progress. I meal plan like a champ. I do make calendars with social events, kids stuff, work, school, etc. Things are way more organized and thought out that ever before. Yeah sure we still have crazy days and I legit forget to thaw the meat for dinner. That's when my knack for improvising kicks in. Breakfast for dinner! Who wants pancakes or scramble?

I have changed some in those departments. So maybe there is a wee bit-o hope for me?

This has me thinking that we are going about it backwards. Instead of looking at the day to day routine as evidence of security, would more communication and agreement about longer term goals create the trust needed to allow more flexibility in the day to day, just knowing that ultimately we are both moving in the same direction in our own ways.
I dunno. I get what you're saying, but I wonder if some of this is a strength/weakness thing or just a relationship choice. I'm crap with numbers. Always have been. FOO helped set me up for failuretoo. And quite frankly, I trust QS to take care of us financially. Is it so bad that he does the "big" things? Maybe I'm being a bit closed minded about it, but wasn't that how it was back in the day before "women's rights and equality"? The men did the business end of things, the women took care of the house and social things. Is that such an ancient ideal, that its completely rejected in today's society? Is it naive of me? Or is it showing my husband I trust him, and he can be the leader in this relationship? (Especially when in the past, I have always pulled rank, then screwed us up.) Sure, discussing to a degree and being a part of decisions would be nice, but the rest? It really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. Does that make sense?

[This message edited by Aubrie at 9:01 PM, March 29th (Saturday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Topic Posts: 37
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