I'll compare it to my job. People will commit crimes all of the time and they always have an excuse. Doesn't matter what the crime is they can and do try to justify it. When it happens I don't care they get arrested. The rest is up to the court to decide. They get punished, be it jail, a fine or any other alternative sentence.
My wife had her affair(crime) and she was arrested (discovered). Now she has to face her sentence. She knows I need her to be honest and open with me. She has tried and is doing well in my opinion. I know she is and probably will continue to present what she did in as positive (to her) point of view as possible. . We have decided to try and R, so I ask what choice do I have?
She has put herself out there. She has admitted what she did and is making an honest attempt to fix her issues. Are there guarantees, absolutely not. Her and her family all know what happened and she is not shying away from it. She has humbled herself to just about everyone I know and has asked for a second chance. I have decided to give her one. I will compare it to probation. She does what she has to do and doesn't break my laws and everything will be fine. She doesn't comply and she faces the punishment. She knows there will be no more chances after this.
Were pics or video taken during her "encounters" with the OM?
You really need to educate yourself on the BDSM lifestyle!!
[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:09 AM, April 13th (Sunday)]
Doggie. I understand what your saying. Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly. She is not giving me excuses per se. She admits this is all on her and her flawed logic and her selfishness. She knows I am hurt and she did that to me. She is not defending her actions and has not blamed me since I confronted her and I believe that was her shocked reaction and she was rationalizing her cheating as revenge, because that was her way of excusing her affair in the first place. People have pointed out her actions were not consistent with a BS and she knows this. She readily admits she was lying to herself and me to justify her actions.
In general my wife is kind of a "wall flower". While she is a stunning woman she is quiet and actually a little shy. She has expressed some self esteem issues from past abuse, but isn't using them as an excuse. Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way. I'm posting a lot of what we are discussing and am probably doing a bad job of it. It's just that you all are my sounding board. I have no siblings and my mother has passed on. My best friend in the world is her brother, and he is not someone I can discuss this with. I have lots of friends at work, but it's just not appropriate ya know.
I just don't know what to do anymore.
Listen SWAT, I've been at this a long time. And one thing that I've learned (the hard way) is that trickle truth is almost "a given" after discovery. What I'm saying is this...WS's lie!!! What I would hate is for you to continue on with your reconciliation and then have something significant surface! It happened to me!! If it doesnt happen to you.... Super!! You'll be the first that I've ever read here!
In my case, after 8 years into my R and continued TT, I demanded a poly! She passed, but not before some last minute "truths" on the way to the exam. We're good now. You and yours can be also!
Now I have to wonder if she is one the Internet somewhere.
Ask. Hopefully you will get the truth. She was open about the sexual desires right? Might not have happened, but the little I know of Dom's is that photos/videos are part of the game. Hope not though.
I'm actually hopeful for you guys. It doesn't happen often, but every so often, a WW comes along who is immediately remorseful. Yours has seemed to be one such. The only thing that will show you that is a much hated word around here....Time. The generally accepted timeframe is 2-5 years(sorry). It's a rollercoaster.
asked for a second chance. I have decided to give her one. I will compare it to probation.
Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way. I'm posting a lot of what we are discussing and am probably doing a bad job of it.
Nope, doing pretty damn well. Remember, you're the one *on the spot*. You've got incident command, take the advice you need and leave the rest.
I just blurted out that I forgave her and wanted to try and work everything out. Wife just fell to the floor crying and saying thank you.
Nevertheless, there are still 3 separate and distinct healings that need to occur for R to be successful:
1. BS (IC may be helpful)
2. WS (IC may be helpful)
3. M (MC may be helpful)
wife started living a mild form of BDSM lifestyle in her late teens early twenties. She said she likes to be "forced" to do things. She said that she didn't like pain and anything she just feels she needs to be made to do things. Nothing extreme just being "dominated".
So, SWAT, one step at a time. Healing takes time, but you are making much forward progress!
[This message edited by IWantDoOver at 2:29 PM, April 13th (Sunday)]
Just wondering if her contrition isn't part of her submissive role as punishment. I'm not sure how all that works but I can see how it would get confusing
Posts: 1493 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
So what your saying is she isn't really sorry. She is just punishing herself and taking me along for the ride because she is submissive.
Well I guess I'm f'ed then. Maybe we are done I don't know. I guess only time will tell.
I'll have to talk with WW tonight and maybe staying S is the best thing for now.
Are your familiar with the H.A.L.T. acronym?
My IC advised me never to make a life-altering decision when I'm
In my past, an ltgf asked me to beat her while having sex. Not a BDSM thing but actually beat her. I'm fairly certain looking back that her father sexually abused her. I didn't understand it then, but over the years have been in long term relations with sexually abused women and had to deal with the effects of various forms of abuse. Not that your wife has been sexually abused. Just saying with time I began to understand the behavior behind the way my x used to think and why she was begging me to assault her (couldn't do it for more than a few seconds and I myself became traumatized by it). Awful. Crazy dark stuff and was one of the many reasons we didn't stay together.
Be patient SWAT. Gently bring it up to your wife if you want, but don't hang your hat on it just yet.
Pulling for you SWAT.
I'm five years from reaching retirement eligibility. If she doesn't want to mess with my pension maybe I should just walk. I thought I could read people but maybe in this case I'm wrong. It appears I really know nothing about my wife, since she couldn't tell me this s@it before. Hell for all I know she is the worlds best liar. I had hoped we could work it out but I keep getting the impression everyone(or at least quite a few of you) thinks she is lying or at least not being totally honest. I'm not sure I can tolerate any more information or truth at this point.
We are not trying to infringe on your happiness. We are trying to look out for you. Personally I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt. Honestly, at this point it's still a little early for that. You don't have to make any life changing decisions right now. Especially when not being able to think clearly. Think R or D later. Think yourself and your kids for now.
How did that conversation with WW go? Doesn't sound like it went too well.
I am going to focus on the BDSM dimension of your situation as it seems that is giving you some pause.
If you read my profile, you will see that my WW engaged in BDSM with her AP. She had never expressed or known that she had an interest in that. The AP, however, had and talked her into it.
From what I know (and I have read a lot of books, participated in fora, web sites, etc.) and experienced with her and other women, it is a matter of trust. That is, there is a strong trust that the submissive, or bottom, has in the dominant or top. Usually, the party who is in charge is really the submissive, not the dominant. The dominant is just how the submissive gets her/his "needs" met.
Her lack of feelings for the AP is a little bit at odds with her BDSM inclination. That is, usually people (especially women) do not engage in (any form of) BDSM unless there is a strong element of trust, which usually comes with love, admiration, respect, or some combination thereof. This is an area where I feel that your WW might not be 100% forthcoming when she says that there were no strong underlying feelings for the AP. And this is consistent with observation in my first post where I questioned whether your wife is so naive to have fallen for the AP's deception). Maybe she is minimizing her feelings for the AP. But again, this is an observation based on what I am reading in your posts. You may have formed a different conviction based on your direct interaction with your WW.
Everything will sound new now to you and somehow as if it does not pertain to your relationship with your WW. I remember for at least three months after DDay struggling to accept/internalize that my WW was interested in that lifestyle. Who was that woman, I kept asking myself. However, if you continue on the R journey, and when and if you can get past the initial connection of BDSM to the AP, then I would tell you that you might be in for a very fulfilling journey of discovery. You may want to explore your own interests in BDSM, share them with your WW and include them in your relationships, if she agrees. My WW and I have now created our own brand of BDSM, somehow far, more intimate, and deeper that the (relatively mild) one that she had been initiated to. I find her surrender very fulfilling as it makes me feel closer to her and she experiences the same. Again, it is not for everyone, but I would not discount it a priori.
One aspect you may want to clarify/explore with her is if she feels/wants the submissive role only in the bedroom or in all other aspects of your life together. It should not have to be degrading for her, as the "submission" should be evident and known only between the two of you.
I am not sure what else I can add at this point, but if you have any specific issue you want to discuss, hit me either as a reply or via PM.
[This message edited by frankier at 6:04 PM, April 13th (Sunday)]
It appears I really know nothing about my wife, since she couldn't tell me this s@it before.
TBH brother, embarrassing stuff for her to admit if she had you on a pedestal. IME, very few marriages are based on total complete honesty by both parties. I'll take your word for being completely open and honest with her, but really?
You don't need to make any decisions now brother. It's a great time for you to reassess who you really are and what you want out of life. Great time for her to be working on her and salvaging what she can. TBH, she does sound like she *gets* it. Unfortunately, it takes time to prove it.
Take your time. This is your decision. Expect it to change many, many times. It truly is a rollercoaster.
She had precious little guilt and had no intention of confessing to you, which makes me think she might have gone back for the occasional dabble, as soon as she convinced the OM that this was causal and not to be taken seriously. Just sex.
Not much respect for you, but you need to accept the fact that your WW is rather a selfish person who loves you and the kids, but is not to be fully trusted because of this selfishness. If she wants something then why can't she have it? She understands she can't have a brand new BMW because of financial reasons, but she can have the OM with no repercussions as long as you didn't find out.
Currently she wants this horrible mess to go away hence her extreme efforts to display remorse. I wonder what her mindset will be when she realizes this isn't going to be instant; it will take years.
I think your WW has learned a lesson from this; just make sure she doesn't get complacent about the marriage; leave her unsettled and insecure about what her future holds. Will the marriage survive? Almost certainly, but don't let her know that.
I know what I’m posting and suggesting is easier to say than to implement. I’m more or less suggesting you try to control you completely understandable and logical thoughts and replace them with something that really doesn’t make sense.
Sort of like your job…
What sensible and logical person goes TOWARDS a situation where you could meet a drugged, hyperactive homicidal maniac with nothing to lose and armed with a firearm? What sort of sane person walks willingly into such a situation if they have options to do something else?
Frankly SWAT – none.
What you do as a vocation really doesn’t make sense. Deliberately going into harm’s way… If we only apply self-centered and focused logic and sense… it breaks all the rules of logic and sense.
But you do it…
And you minimize the risk by training, equipment, precautions.
You prepare by overriding, controlling or focusing your fears. Unlike most people that would curl up in a ball if fired at you might be just as scared but you react differently. You react to your situation and your reactions impact the situation. If you impact it often enough and get results to your impacts… You get control.
And SWAT… that’s what you have to do now…
Look. If I continue comparing your marriage to a street-fight. Wondering on the whys and what’s right now… It’s like you and gunman share discussions about his troubled youth and abusive father while he is still taking pot-shots at you.
Unlike your job you CAN walk away from this fight. You can turn in your husband-badge. But… Like your job you can’t turn in your police-badge for one tough event and then reclaim it a couple of hours later because you have easier jobs…
Now – based solely on what YOU have posted – then I think your wife got taken by the OM. This does not in any way diminish her responsibility or diminish the affair. Affairs extremely seldom happen because WS and AP are “meant to be” “love at first sight” “destiny” yadayadacrap. Generally they take place because the WS is lacking something [Note I don’t say missing or needing – they are LACKING as in it being a need that they should be able to fulfill differently and in a “normal” acknowledged way]. It’s as if a person open for infidelity send signals that others in the same wave-length can receive. In your case it really sounds as if OM saw an opportunity with WW and really mined that gap. Once again – this does not diminish her responsibility in ANY way. BUT it can impact her willingness and ability to reconcile.
All this BDSM talk…
You have gotten some great advice on those issues (special accolades to yop [an apt name considering the subject…] and frankier)
There is a difference between being submissive and BDSM…
I could argue that your WW was submissive because that was what she needed to have sex with OM. That a) she needed him to be dominant in order to feel she had no choice or option other than comply b) she needed something completely different from you so she could carry on with it. But then – she might have a heavy bondage streak in her that the OM somehow managed to tap into. Who knows? But right now… that’s like the gunman telling you his father drowned his puppy…. It’s not really relative to the situation right now.
SWAT. This is a long-term project. There is no way you will get reasons, resolve or any form of real understanding right now. Your WW is just as messed up mentally right now as you are. You are both confused.
I can’t strongly enough encourage you two to find a pro-marriage MC and to start the work of channeling all this good, required communications you two seem to be having now into the correct paths.