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User Topic: Justified affairs
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Soulmates, sure. A concept where two people are halves of the same soul, drifting around gloomily through the cosmos, recycling flesh until they finally by sheer happenstance stumble into the other half. In the meantime, they form other bonds and relationships, all of which are substandard in comparison to the untold magical wonders of an astral conscious coupling. This means anyone who isn't a mate to this poor, wounded spirit is an emotional crutch, like a much loved pet.

Short version: soulmate = psychic vampire. HEY LETS SUCK THE LIFE FROM PEOPLE WE MEET UNTIL WE RUN INTO SOMEONE ELSE WHO DOES THE SAME THING.

Both the AP and WS are inferior in the sense they lied and cheated among anything else involved in an affair. The reason there is any kind of redemption story involved is because you have to be a real fuckup to start that redemption. What the fuck is there to redeem otherwise? Scrubbing that out and making an affair acceptable means making all the accoutrements of an affair acceptable - deception, dishonesty, selfishness, cruelty, et al.

Those attributes are universal to infidelity. You cannot have an affair without selfishness, without deception, without cruelty to some degree. These attributes are universally villainous - so infidelity, with some very rare exceptions, is never anything more than a tawdry little thing blown up to be more than it is because it lacks any real substance.

What exceptions are there? Maybe an arranged marriage where one spouse was forced by family and society to marry someone who is brutal and makes their life miserable and they happen to meet someone kind and loving. That is pretty much a non-start in western society though, so there is no room for moral in betweens. The real problem people have is that they're too lazy or selfish to do the right thing or maintain proper boundaries, or have enough respect for the person they profess to love and trust. Maybe there are affair partners perfectly suited for one another. Maybe there are situations where two people meet and are a wonderful match, but are already in a relationship. There are ways to go about that in an honest and respectable way - but there's nothing honest or respectable about an affair.

Affair partners are thieves - they take what they can steal. There are very, very few thieves who steal bread to survive, but there are a whole damn lot of people who put up that argument when it comes to justifying theft.

eta:

Though I like to think it goes without saying, I do not think of these things in absolutes. People *can* change for the better, with honest and hard work. Those are people who want that redemption. There are plenty around here who have proven the truth to that - good people who fucked up and worked hard to not be that way.

If there is such a thing as soulmates then that takes all their hard work and throws it out the window. In itself a repugnant concept.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:59 AM, March 29th (Saturday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7407 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't read any replies. Stated off the original premise.

would it have been ok if they were perfect for your partner?

Sure, if I viewed my partner as a person willing to break their vows and break up a family for a supposed *twin flame*. In that case, I would question why I picked such a loser in the first place.(I've done it 5 times, not slamming you) There's a reason that when they say *Honey, they always affair down* is accurate.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2669 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If your spouse pulled a gun on you because you irritated them and did not have sex with them how and where they wanted it, your spouse would be considered an abuser.

If your spouse continually called you nasty names and threw the dinner you cooked for them on the floor, your spouse would be considered an abuser.

If your spouse drove you and the kids wildly around town while drunk on vodka, your spouse would be considered an abuser.

If your spouse finds their soulmate, f**ks them, lies to you, leaves you and the kids while acting like a love drunk fool, and splits your soul wide open inflicting the worse pain you have ever felt, your spouse is considered a star crossed lover.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1428 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
whattheh
♀ Member
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No affairs are never okay and never warranted. I have zero tolerance for adultery and always have.

Any relationship born of an A is built on a foundation of deceit and cruelty. Nothing good can come from a beginning like this and there will be a day of reckoning for both parties no matter how perfect they feel they are for each other.


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 518 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's the thing: if you are doing what your suppose to do and honoring your spouse, you have boundaries that would keep you from ever getting to know someone in such a way that would lead you to believe they were your soul mate. So just finding a "soul mate" in the first place outside of your spouse is an unjustifiable act.

This is exactly how I feel about that.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
T-13 M-9
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13.
Hopeful for R

Posts: 840 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Soulmates, sure. A concept where two people are halves of the same soul, drifting around gloomily through the cosmos, recycling flesh until they finally by sheer happenstance stumble into the other half. In the meantime, they form other bonds and relationships, all of which are substandard in comparison to the untold magical wonders of an astral conscious coupling. This means anyone who isn't a mate to this poor, wounded spirit is an emotional crutch, like a much loved pet.

Short version: soulmate = psychic vampire. HEY LETS SUCK THE LIFE FROM PEOPLE WE MEET UNTIL WE RUN INTO SOMEONE ELSE WHO DOES THE SAME THING.

I absolutely love this explanation. It shows in so many ways what is broken with the soul mate mentality. Thank you.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 416 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
broken313
♀ Member
Member # 39006
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks guys, I knew I would find sense here. Of course my ' friends' havent been through this, and are ignorant.
I have become quite twisted by all this crap in my life, sometimes I wonder if it isnt always black and white. I think with cheating it is and nothing will ever make it right.


Me 42
FWH 39
3 kids, 13,8,6
Dday 3/30/13
R- fragile

Posts: 54 | Registered: Apr 2013
OutoftheDeep
♀ Member
Member # 42601
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Soulmates, sure. A concept where two people are halves of the same soul, drifting around gloomily through the cosmos, recycling flesh until they finally by sheer happenstance stumble into the other half. In the meantime, they form other bonds and relationships, all of which are substandard in comparison to the untold magical wonders of an astral conscious coupling. This means anyone who isn't a mate to this poor, wounded spirit is an emotional crutch, like a much loved pet.
Short version: soulmate = psychic vampire. HEY LETS SUCK THE LIFE FROM PEOPLE WE MEET UNTIL WE RUN INTO SOMEONE ELSE WHO DOES THE SAME THING.

I'm sorry for laughing, but thank you for this. You have described it perfectly.

Anytime I've heard people speak of soulmates, I imagine some wispy teen girl, with unicorn and Steely Dan posters all over wall, stuffed animals all over her bed, with the name of her crush written all over her Lisa Frank folders and a bootleg copy of Forever hidden under her mattress.

I swear I cannot imagine a grown person, especially a man, using this term. But I have heard it or at least similar things.

It simply so stupid. It doesn't even make sense.
To use it to justify an affair it's just stupid is all I can really say.

I have never experiences any mention of soulmate from my WS. But the AP of my exwh almost implied it. I would bet she used this term. She used the terms "best friends" like it was some deep, mystical place, in fact she told me this while bawling and even said I just didn't understand what 'best friends' they were!!! OMG.



Me - maybe BW 40s
He - maybe WH 40s
My mother was always the OW
ExWH in first M had lta.
Current marriage:
2/'13 out all night with an ow
2/'13 busted at strip club
4/'14-? bad boundaries w/howorker

Posts: 328 | Registered: Feb 2014
Stillstings
♀ Member
Member # 36549
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your friends need to lay off the crappy movies like The Notebook or Brothers.

The worst justification I've heard is cheating gave the Wayward the strength to leave a bad relationship. It gave them hope that there were others out there, and they were worth it!

Yeah, really empowering.

Additionally, the term "twin flames" sounds like a child's game like Pretty Pretty Princess. Adults actually believe in this stuff?

[This message edited by Stillstings at 1:30 PM, March 29th (Saturday)]


Love yourself. You're worth it. Face your self. You need to do it.

Posts: 356 | Registered: Aug 2012
emotionalgirl
♀ Member
Member # 40184
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmmmmm...this doesn't make any logical sense to me. The assumption would be that people get married because they have already found their soul mate, that one person they cant live without. So, if you didn't marry your soul mate, then how do you find your soul mate and legitimize an affair? Keep dating even while you are married? What the hell was the point of getting married in the first place? Just stay single and keep searching for your soul mate. Using the logic that these friends are using, I then say that people who got married and then found their soul mate because of an affair, settled for someone who wasn't their soul mate the first time around because they are so broken they are scared to be alone. So we come back to the main reason for affairs.....the WS are broken people. Saying an A happened because a WS found their soul mate is just painting it a different color and putting flowers on it to hide the cracks.


1st D day: Saturday July 20,2013
2nd D day....when the s**t really hit the fan and the truth came out.Saturday August 3,2013
3rd D day: Friday August 16, 2013...NC sent Friday Aug 30 4th D day NOV 11
Me: BS
Him: WH
Married 25 years....finally in R

Posts: 370 | Registered: Aug 2013
zebra25
♀ Member
Member # 29431
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why bother with marriage vows? Or at the very least change them up a bit. For better or for worse or until I find my real soumate.


Me-BS 40's
Him-WH 40's
D-day April 2010
Married-20+yrs

Posts: 679 | Registered: Aug 2010
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why bother with marriage vows? Or at the very least change them up a bit. For better or for worse or until I find my real soumate.

More like for better, worse or until I find someone who seems better on the surface.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 416 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
Kierst13
♀ Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I cannot and will not go as far as to say an affair can be fully justified, however, I have found one instance that I do not condemn it.

After my D-Days and decision to divorce a close of mine confessed to me that she was having an affair and had been for over two years. She did not enter into it lightly, and gave her marriage and her husband every chance she could to improve. She begged him, she pleaded, she bought books, she asked for marital counseling, and she put her heart and soul into her marriage and her husband; only to be rejected and cast aside each and every time.

It came to the point she either had to choose to divorce, get a full-time job and hand her children over to father that showed minimal interest in them, 50% of the time; or she could stay married and live without love; or she could stay married and find companionship and love outside the marriage. She chose the option I would not have chosen for myself.

Perhaps I do not see it as too dissimilar to a BS who chooses to stay in a marriage to a person they know (or they assume) will not become remorseful and fully join in the marriage. They make a choice of the lesser of two evils for reasons other than love.

I do not know that it fully justifies it, however, I also have a difficult time throwing stones at a person that has done everything in their power to make a marriage work, but has an unwilling spouse. Vows are broken and love is betrayed by affairs and by a person too lazy to *love and to cherish*, and I can tell you the pain she felt by her husband choosing not to love her was devastating to her.


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My mum had an exit A. She's been with her AP for 20 years now, married for 11. He's my step dad and has been a wonderful addition to my life. I was lucky enough to have three adults invested in my upbringing, who all loved and supported me and still continue to do so. Regardless of how it came about, I'm glad my step dad has been in my life and now my children are lucky enough to have three amazing grandparents.

Was it tough at the time? Sure. Was it justified? Nope. It was an affair, they're never justifiable. Did it all work out in the end? Of course.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 3:15 PM, March 29th (Saturday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1230 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
sidney2718
♂ New Member
Member # 41190
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with the overwhelming majority. But I can think of one type of almost infidelity that can be justified.

This is most apt to happen later in life when, for whatever reason, illness, physical problems, etc., one partner is totally unable to provide sex. Many think it is unacceptable to divorce over this because of one's obligation to one's marriage partner.

A sensible partner will sometimes allow, explicitly or not, their spouse to have a physical affair. I know of cases like this. Of course since the disabled spouse knows about it, it isn't really an affair.


Posts: 41 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Northeast US
freeatlast72
♀ Member
Member # 42758
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I swear I cannot imagine a grown person, especially a man, using this term. But I have heard it or at least similar things.

My STBXWH used this when he described how he felt about OW. He also said they were "best friends".....Idiot! What were we for 15 years!?!?

Cheating is NEVER justified! I keep telling everyone this, but if he was unhappy whey did he not try to talk about it, try to work on our marriage and if it did not work out, then LEAVE!! At least we would have tried!


BS:41 (me)
WH: 41
Kids: DD6
DDay: 12/31/2013
Married 15 years
Separated as of 01/16/2014,now divorcing...WH did not want to reconcile.

You can't rationalize irrational behavior.


Posts: 135 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: North Carolina
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I cannot and will not go as far as to say an affair can be fully justified, however, I have found one instance that I do not condemn it.

I really try not to be absolute about many things, but with this I feel like I have to be. Anything that could be used to justify an affair can be better handled by ending the relationship.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 416 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
zebra25
♀ Member
Member # 29431
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In sickness and in health or until you can no longer have sex. Again, why have vows. Marriage is not to be taken lightly and nobody promises it will be easy.


Me-BS 40's
Him-WH 40's
D-day April 2010
Married-20+yrs

Posts: 679 | Registered: Aug 2010
broken313
♀ Member
Member # 39006
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kierst, I am sorry, but I dont think your friends reasons are justified just because she tried. She is cake eating. She doesnt want to work full time and give up her current life. When her husband finds out, will he be ok with it because she had after all tried? I dont think so. He will be devatated, just like the rest of us have been. Your friend is looking out for herself having given up on the marriage. She is disrespecting her husband and her vows. Having been betrayed, I cant accept this at all.


Me 42
FWH 39
3 kids, 13,8,6
Dday 3/30/13
R- fragile

Posts: 54 | Registered: Apr 2013
Stillstings
♀ Member
Member # 36549
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A sensible partner will sometimes allow, explicitly or not, their spouse to have a physical affair.

I don't see how adding a 3rd person to a marriage enduring challenging circumstances is sensible.


Love yourself. You're worth it. Face your self. You need to do it.

Posts: 356 | Registered: Aug 2012
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