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User Topic: this may be triggery for BS, paradox?
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, April 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FYI, Triggery subject, just trying to find a balance here, BS are more than welcome to answer,


So I've been reading for a while now. About how the world has changed for my BS, that the person who he is suppose to trust stabbed in the back, and that he now feels bitter and depressed with that knowledge. . and views the world with cynicism. (truth is he allways has, and has of women as well, thinks we are all looney tunes because our emotions are a lot of our life and that we worry about how everyone feels etc. )

Now my conterversial paradox. So if he is seeing this and is feeling this, why is it he can't get that this has been how I feel for most of my life.

The ones you should trust have not kept you safe, that you are not worthy and that you need to protect yourself?

This causes huge depression and has been a lifetime struggle in my life. Just finally understanding how much. And what the impac has been and how it has controlled my decisions without even being aware of it! That in itslf is depressing and frustrating

I guess, I am in a bit of a tiff today. I have been told over and over and over in the last 17 years we've been together, to change my thinking, get over it, your so pessitimistic, And yet I see him doing the same thing , and if I would say that to him, I would be looked at as being a bitch and unremorsful.

The thing is , at last I am finding it is a mind set. I can carry the scar of my abuse, and I can look at it and I can keep falling back there, and I can keep looking at the scars on my soul for the affairs and the pain and hurt I have caused to my husband, family and children. And I really could stay sad , and untrusting, I can look at the incidents in my marriage that caused me to trigger my fears and I can keep blaming them and letting all of this keep me depressed and un trusting, or I can say Yes, I have been screwed over, I have screwed people over , now what. Should I stay depressed, should I not live anymore. Should I say f"ck it.


NO! I am 44 years old this its time to take back my life. I understand that its taken me a lifetime to understand it. And I cannot expect my BH to find that place easily.

At the same time were told we can't blame the other person how we feel etc. When does the responsibility on how my BH feels go back on him, When does it become okay to say. Yes I had an affair, I hurt you more than I can possibly understand, Now what, Are you going to blame me for the rest of your life being depressed?

I know its taken a long time for me to realize that I had a victims mindset. Or even understand what that was.

He has allways dealt with Anxiety, and has allways had issues with people thinking or having emotions , never wanted to talk about feelings, and never want to be seen as needing help. Has allways had aches and pains, hard time breathing, hi blood pressure all of it. Now has a hard time being motivated but is also self medicating with pot, so hence reduces the motivations reduces any feeling. He has smoked on and off for our whole relationship, just constant now for the last 18 months. And its a total taboo thing for me to say stop, cause its what allows him to deal with his anxiety.

Sorry I guess the big question is when is it time or when is it okay for me to say its time for him to take responsibility for his feelings, and not allways be my fault.?


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
grains
♂ Member
Member # 32590
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, April 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am sorry that you and your partner are going through this difficult time.

This is a reply to your last question:
We can only be responsible for our own thoughts, words and actions. We do not have control over the thoughts, words and actions of others. Please let your BS know in a caring and compassionate way that he needs to take responsibility for his physical, emotional and mental health. This might require the intervention and guidance of professional counselors- IC's & MC's. This path is never easy but in it is the possibility of recovery. As long as we all make the effort to take responsibility for our actions then we have a better chance of moving away from denial and blame shifting and are able to move closer to reconciliation.

This is a reply to your first question:
Why can your BS not understand what you feel most of your life?
Please also consider the reversal of roles. Can you understand how your BS feels? Perhaps the key to your paradox is having caring mutual understanding in your marriage. This is the difficult task of communication with empathy. It is the work and responsibility of both you and your partner. Again, this might require the help of professional counselors.

I sincerely hope you find your peace and happiness together as a couple.


WH 60
BS 50
No Children
Together 17 years
Married 7/21/2001
D-day 03/01/2011

Posts: 313 | Registered: Jun 2011
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, April 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a BS, and I think I understand what you are saying. And it's an interesting perspective.

My stbx has always felt disposable, inadequately loved, and so on. He was a victim---but chose to remain one, to make it his identity. I knew of the abuse, but not that it defined him.

I did not know, either, that this victimhood prevented him from seeing me as anything other than a poultice for his pain. If I knew this, I would have not taken the role. Even in my own dysfunction, I knew that I could never be a strong enough drug for him---that's where the cheating came in.

I will gently suggest that at 17 months, it's hugely premature to expect your husband to "own" his feelings about your affair. It's taken you 44 years to see your patterns vis-a-vis victimhood, right? He IS a victim of your choices. That really will not change.

What will change--with time (and if you are able to offer it, patience and consistency, though he will do it on his own in the absence of these, though R might come off the table)---are a couple of things: first, the acute agony caused by infidelity will dull a bit, and therefore his (still very) traumatized mind will become better able to entertain solutions other than drowning his sorrow and remaining solely a victim. And secondly, a certain resignation will take place--a surrender I believe is necessary to moving forward constructively.

Right now, he is bargaining. If he smokes a blunt, maybe it will disappear. If he ignores the problem, may when he wakes up, it will be gone.

We all do this, in some form or fashion.

And then it strikes us, after the thousandth morning of waking up as if it were before d-day, only to be bludgeoned by the realization that, oh shit--it really DID happen! The realization that the infidelity is NOT going to ever, ever go away, and that nothing we do will ever buy us a different past is enormous.

That realization is crucial. Because realizing we can't change the past forces us to contemplate how to improve the present and future.

It takes time. It also takes consistent actions and patience from the WS, if R is to occur.

You are very, very early in the game.

It does get better.

(And I hope this made even a little sense. It's hard to put to words.)

ETA:

I'd suggest that now is NOT the time to tell him he's responsible for his feelings. It's too early in the game. First, own the fact that if you had not chosen infidelity, he would not HAVE these feelings. Consistently demonstrate your understanding of this. No, this is not required for him to heal. (And in fact, he may choose NOT to heal---that is true, as well.) But it is necessary, I believe, for R to take place.

[This message edited by solus sto at 3:40 PM, April 6th (Sunday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8659 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, April 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So if he is seeing this and is feeling this, why is it he can't get that this has been how I feel for most of my life.

Has he said directly that he does not see this? Or are you assuming he doesn't based on his actions?

The ones you should trust have not kept you safe, that you are not worthy and that you need to protect yourself?

Are you referring to him not keeping you safe? Or you not keeping him safe?

It may seem like semantics but it's important because you feeling like he wasn't keeping you safe is an entirely different animal than you actually not keeping him safe. He might understand the similarities in how you feel, but unless he actually gave you reason to feel that way, he just might not be in a place to care all that much at this time.

I have been told over and over and over in the last 17 years we've been together, to change my thinking, get over it, your so pessitimistic, And yet I see him doing the same thing , and if I would say that to him, I would be looked at as being a bitch and unremorsful.

Yes, I can say that at 1 1/2 years from DDay, had I told my BH that he was being pessimistic, that he should change his thinking and get over it, I would not be married today. And the reason is that what ever situation he may have said that to you, you can not equal or compare to how he is feeling now. I understand that you wanted to be heard and you might have felt he was dismissive, but feeling like he is dismissive in regards to your feelings and you completely dismissing him as a human being can not be treated as similarities.

At a much later time, when he feels he can trust that you really are in for the long haul, when he feels he is not your second prize, when he feels that you are making positive and permanent changes, he can begin to have more empathy for how he may have made you feel in your M. He does not sound ready to work on pre A issues. When he is ready, you can bring this up. But be careful in your delivery. Because it can come off as being impatient. Maybe you can use how you have felt as a way to demonstrate empathy towards him
. Something along the lines of "most all of my life I have felt unimportant and unworthy. I can see now, how my affair has made you feel similar. I am so sorry that I have made you feel that way. I want you to know how important you are to me". And so on. That way you can let him know how you felt but not come off as unremorseful or impatient.

I do understand what you are trying to get at. My BH and I have discussed on several occasions that I have taken many of my burdens and handed them to him. And in some ways I have taken his.

[This message edited by WalkinOnEggshelz at 5:13 PM, April 6th (Sunday)]


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, April 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Respectfully, there is a very large difference between being pessimistic, and having a non-trusting attitude, and having a person that made the commitment, voluntarily, to love and take care of you betray you. That is not expected.

My H has had a negative attitude. After he cheated, many months after, he said "Yes, I fucked you over. People fuck each other over. Life sucks. Get over it.". I didn't speak to him for a week. I cannot express how angry I was that my marriage, the very relationship that I had built my life on, was reduced to "Life sucks".

When I read your post, I see that. I see that you have always felt a mistrust, and you want your H to get there so that you can be free of any guilt that you feel. I may be very wrong, and if so I apologize. If I'm not, please remember that a marriage is very different than any other relationship that you have. It is chosen. It is extremely close. It is based on promises and love. Your spouse is the one person on the planet that chose to be with you, to love you, to not hurt you. When that changes, it is very damaging in a great many ways. Please, don't reduce it to a general attitude of not trusting people. It's very different.

I hope that you and your H are able to get past this point, but I agree with the others - 17 months out is very early in the process. Please don't try to rush this, for both your sake.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, April 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the replies, I will respond soon just trying to get the kids organized for school after holidays


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
get-a-brain
♀ Member
Member # 35295
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, April 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even though I'm on the other side of the coin here, being the BS, I completely understand your struggle with the perception of the hypocrisy of it all. I still struggle with it even 3 years later. I can't speak for all BS's, but my guess is the majority struggle with this issue. The things you learn on the healing journey are often related to the very issues that let the WS have an affair. For example:
Healthy people take risks.
Put yourself out there.
Don't be afraid of what other people think.
Do what's right for you.... Etc.

What I've come to understand is that when we try to apply a one size fits all label, or everything is equal label to things, that's when it can really mess with our heads.

My implementing the above behaviors in a healthy manner is not the same as my WH using these behaviors as justification for an affair. We are conditioned as children to think that everything should be fair, and the sad fact is, life isn't fair. I even struggle using that statement, because even though it's true, people can use that to justify bad behavior. If someone chooses to use that truth to justify bad behavior, there is nothing I can do to stop it. We are only responsible for how we behave. That's not to say that our behavior does not effect others, but it does not mean our behavior "causes" how they choose to respond.

Sorting out these feelings is a process, it doesn't happen overnight. I just wanted to let you know that your BS is most likely also struggling with the "hypocrisy" of the whole thing.

You say for years you've wanted more emotion and less rational in the relationship, but now that you have it, because it's not the kind of emotions you were looking for, you feel slighted that he's not using those emotions in the way you want. Do you see how the hypocrisy goes both ways?

[This message edited by get-a-brain at 9:04 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)]


Read Why Your Spouses Infidelity Isn't Your Fault
http://www.healingafteraffairs-bloomington.info/infidelity/trauma-of-infidelity.html

Posts: 148 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No worries at rushing this process, I am quite aware it will take along time. And that comes from my own experience. So I do have a lot of empathy as to what he is going through.

As for the guilt. I am sure that will be with me for life as is the shame of what I have done to him. Its not the guilt that's wants him to be better, Its the simple fact he deserves to feel better, but I can't do anything about it, As you all have said is to continue to support as I can .

As for the trust issue. Yes he did break my trust in that I was not safe. If you have been falling my postings. I have finally with help with my IC found the underlying, force that has been the influence of my thinking and actions. Its messed up, at least now I know when I feel a certain way where it is coming from.

This is where part of the PRE A issues come from. The interesting part is in this last month it has come to light he has no idea what empathy is. Didn't even know what the meaning was.

Victim hood. If I had realized what I thought had been put to rest from my childhood, was still going to affect my husband I would not have inflicted this on him either. I had thoughtit was no big deal had been taught to keep that kinda stuff tucked away.

The waking up everymorning is very hard on him. Some mornings we snuggle some morning we have to get up. I know its a waking thought everyday, as he has said though he doesn't react to it like he use to. Its more like a thought then goes. Unless something triggers him.

Have to go for now be back later


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
Sparkywater
♀ New Member
Member # 41932
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here. I, like you and your BS, had FOO issues. While I had felt like I overcame them prior to my marriage they were more liked 'packed away'. Various things in my marriage would make certain emotions and feelings carry a familiar tone to my pre-marriage days.

Your BS is responsible for any issues prior to the marriage. As I was. I also did not seek any professional help for them. I thought I was good, I wasn't.

With the A my WS caused every single one of those previous issues to re-flare up and mix in with the issues of dealing with my emotions of being betrayed. It took professional help to untangle what was from FOO and what was from the A.

You AND your BS need to deal with the issues from your FOO. Your BS is double hurt with your betrayal and that is the one YOU will need to help him deal with.

Healing will not come until you both work on your own selves, independently. Then you can work together on the marriage.

I wish you luck, its a hard road but it can be done!


BW(me)44 / WH 36
DS (13)
Married 15 years
Affair 2 month EA/ 1 week PA
DDay 7/18/12
In R since Aug12; true R for him Oct13.

Posts: 14 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Virginia
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for the trust issue. Yes he did break my trust in that I was not safe. If you have been falling my postings.

I'm sorry, but I need to ask for clarification. Are you referring to his accident? The one where you realized that you could lose him? If there is something else I missed, I apologize.

If this is indeed the incident you are referring to then again, I want to reiterate that feeling like you are unsafe is very different than being unsafe. What you realized with his accident was your husband's mortality. He did not make a purposeful choice to hurt you. You realized that you could lose him and it frightened you. I understand that. But he didn't betray you. You can not compare getting into an accident to infidelity. It's called an accident for a reason. It wasn't meant to happen. Infidelity is a choice. Remorse and personal growth doesn't need to be dependent on whether or not he has empathy towards you and past actions. It's helpful for R, but don't let that bog you down in your own journey.

Again, I apologize if I am misinterpreting what you are trying to say.

[This message edited by WalkinOnEggshelz at 6:13 PM, April 7th (Monday)]


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, April 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If this is indeed the incident you are referring to then again, I want to reiterate that feeling like you are unsafe is very different than being unsafe. What you realized with his accident was your husband's mortality. He did not make a purposeful choice to hurt you. You realized that you could lose him and it frightened you. I understand that.

Yes I know this is a feeling and It was not purposeful. However it was a choice . He got absolutely drunk after many times telling him my nightmares, him telling me not to worry and then with his coworkers go out and try and out run the police. So no it wasn't an accident.

Still what I have come to realize and understand that this triggered me due to my FOO and abuse. That he couldn't keep me safe and I wasn't worth keeping safe. Not sure if that makes sense. I realize its different than what he is feeling with my betrayal. I also no this is no reason for an affair. And its not my reason what it helping me understand is my how and why's. Which in the end make me a safer person for him , my children and me.

This is just one scenario.

I am not justifying anything, or trying to compare this with my affair. I was explaining what trust issue was about for me. Also with this initiating my feeling of not being able to rely on him I distance myself. I did it with anger and bitterness and resentments. So for me I am figuring out how and what my feelings and thoughts are to make sure they are accurate.

As far as telling my BH that he is pesstimistic, never have I . I have been encouraging and understanding, and have owned my affairs not blaming him or comparing anything. I was only talking about pestimicism because that is what he called me all the time.

Also never have I told my BH to get over it.

When I need to decompress or try to get a deeper understanding, I come here.

I'd suggest that now is NOT the time to tell him he's responsible for his feelings. It's too early in the game. First, own the fact that if you had not chosen infidelity, he would not HAVE these feelings. Consistently demonstrate your understanding of this. No, this is not required for him to heal. (And in fact, he may choose NOT to heal---that is true, as well.) But it is necessary, I believe, for R to take place.

Yes I agree, It is because of me he feels this way about life , and I hope he does choose to do so.

We have many "good" days and we do talk more than ever. And he is more a man of action than words.

Today was a day of thought for me. And like I said at the beginning kinda a paradox for me. Also I suck at writing.

So chances are none of this still will be clear.

Thanks for listening.


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
Topic Posts: 11

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