SurvivingInfidelity.com® > Just Found Out
Trying to figure it out.
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First post. Married 20 yrs 2 kids had trusted my wife without a doubt. The marriga was not perfect and was rocky at times but we always worked through it. Ww had a girls cruise in feb. Wr had an argument the weekend before the cruise but not any huge thing. Wwleaves on a wed. Gets home sun. Night and my world started falling apart. My gut told me something was wrong but I wasn't listening. She told me stories of people hitting on her and talked about meeting the comedian that was on the boat. My gut told me I was in trouble. I found a fb convo between them that my wife started where he asked her to lunch when she went on a weekend trip to visit a friend. I asked her about it and told her I was not ok with this. She seemed ok and said it would not happen. She goes out of town to the friends and for the 1st time in 20 yrs I felt something was wrong. I checked the phone records and sure enough there were calls and texts that started the day she left. My wife was the one who initiated the contact again. I confronted her and she started immediately attacking me and said he was just a friend. I contacted the guy and asked him to not contact my wife. He agreed and has only responded to one of her messages telling her to contact him if she is ever single. She came home the next day we discussed what was next and she said she wanted to save our marriage. Shortly after that the ladies she travelled with came to me and spilled the beans. My wife had went on the cruise and went wild. She spent every minute she could with the guy and she also wad making out with another guy in the hot tub. Her friends have no proof of sex but say there were long stretches of time she disappeared . I confronted the ww she said it was all lies and they were exaggerating. Then I found her journal that talked about the comedian and her deepest thoughts and feelings about him. She always said he was a friend. I have never talked about a friend in that way. I asked her closest friend about this and she admitted my wife was falling for the guy and if I had not caught her she would have left me and the kids to explore the relationship. She has cut off all of our friends and will go to individual counseling but will not do couples therapy. Says she just had to many issues to work out before we could start working on ours. I have gone as far as I can towards forgiveness with out full disclosure. I have not been given any info without snooping and she will not discuss anything I dont have proof of. I am at the end of my rope.
You'll need to detach from her so that she begins to understand that she does not get to be married, 'go wild', explore relationships with other men.
So read this - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11
Then spend some time in the 'Healing Library'.
It's good that she wants IC. But she is being very selfish in not recognizing that she is married, that her spouse is hurting and confused over her actions and ignoring your feelings in this.
She needs to understand, clearly and starkly, that she does not get to use you as a safety net or training wheels as she deals with her 'issues'.
So a 180 is your best move both for you and for her.
Give her the gift of missing you.
I am trying to step back but the helplessness is something new that is hard for me to cope with. I told her the other day that she needed to defriend the EA. She agreed but has done nothing. She is feeling the stress of her guilt. Has had shingles and has been ill since the confrontation. She has isolated me since our friends are couple friends and she has cut them all off. I am having a hard time dealing with the lack of accountability she has. If she would apologize I could get on with it but it has been impossible to get anything out of her. She understands that I will not tolerate another betrayal of any kind so she has cut everything but work out of her life. She still will not give up any passwords. She changed all of these the moment she was caught. For 20 years she was an open book and over yhe span of 4 days she destroyed all of the trust I had in her. I dont want a d but I also will not live like this undefinately.
I have gone as far as I can towards forgiveness with out full disclosure.
You are right--you can't take any steps toward forgiveness not knowing what actually happened. I highly suspect this was physical too. And your WW does not seem to be fully on board with R or appropriately remorseful. Please pull back and protect yourself until her tune changes. I think an appointment with a good lawyer is a place to start.
It is fair that she needs to figure her issues out before doing MC. But it's not clear to me that she wants to do MC later. Is she possibly instead sorting out her desire to leave while letting you hang in limbo?
so sorry you have to be here, but glad you have found the place I hate needing but do desperately. I find some remarkable similarities between your WW and my WSO, though I am farther down the 'rabbit hole' than you are. I wish I had a magic recipe to feel better for you (and for myself as well), but there just isn't one. Though talking on here has helped me personally so very much. I'm close to being ready for Dday #3, which I know is coming, because I am giving her no choice (once I actually have the nerve to hear it).
Sorry you had to find yourself here brother.
Keep posting, you'll get lots of support.
Early in the process, most of us will settle for something, anything! - that shows even the tiniest bit of remorse.
Even an apology (however empty we know it to be).
Don't accept crumbs though - you deserve far more than crumbs.
Do that 180 that Merlin posted. While doing it, keep in mind that it is for you and your healing only - not as a manipulative tool to get your wife to do anything. (That's it's secret - it works for you! And that helpless feeling begins to subside the longer and stronger you do it).
Take back your power. This is "about you" now.
You did nothing to cause her to cheat.
Thanks for the kind words. I read about the 180 and it seems like a good tact for me to take. The WW just coasts through living her life while I worry about my kids and what this is doing to them. I do believe she was trying to get me to throw her out early on so that I would be the bad guy. It did not work so she has had to regroup. She has no friends speaking to her and doesnt make enough money to go out on her own and live like she does now. I still feel like the backup choice and that is not enough for me. I am going to take a big step back to see how that works. I am not ready to lawyer up just yet but I have one picked out. Thanks again for the advice.
doesnt make enough money to go out on her own
Lemme guess - you paid for the cruise?
Affairs are fantasyland bullshit.
The only way to truly R (Reconcile)
4 principles - like legs of a table:
The first leg is "what she is"
Remorse (concern about the damage and pain she's brought to you and your kids, not regret - concern about consequences to herself)
The next 3 are "what she does"
NC (No Contact w/ the AP -or anyone else who is not a 'friend of the M')
It's important to your healing to know that you cannot do any of that for her - you cannot "do the work" - she has to, for successful R.
You cannot "nice her" back. Do the opposite (180).
Set firm boundaries.
Put your foot down.
Interacting with an unremorseful WS
is corrosive to your soul.
Minimize interaction to kids and finances only.
"You", or "your marriage", or the great green whales in the sky did not cause her to cheat.
So true. The apology so far has been I'm sorry I hurt you. Yes I did pay for the cruise. Funny how the ladies she went with said she never even hinted at a marriage in trouble. When she was caught I had to hear about how she thought I was going to serve D papers when she got off the boat. A lie made up in her head to justify her actions. She has always been hypercritical of anyone she knows cheating but when it is her it is ok because of her made up reasoning. She is more of a hypocrite than I could have imagined. The reason for no MC is she does not want to face the reality that she did what she has always looked down on others for doing because she would never stoop that low. She has had no contact as far as I can detect but has not done any of the other things you talk about. I am getting past the hurt and desperation. The anger and disgust are grabbing hold of my soul. Everyday is a challenge to not let the anger get the best of me. I love my kids and will not give up without a fight for them. We were very happy a short time ago so maybe we can get somewhere close to that again.
Hitting the anger stage of healing is a good thing,
if you use it - coldly - to advantage yourself. Don't deny the anger feelings. Exult in them. Taste them fully. One day you'll wake up and wonder about when was the last time you were angry? It goes away naturally - but you have to give yourself permission to get through it (not over it).
The goal is indifference, not hate.
I never bought into the 'bad guy' files for D thing...
The 'smart guy' - who uses anger coldly and productively - consults with a L to see what his options are.
We were very happy a short time ago so maybe we can get somewhere close to that again.
I understand nostalgia, 'looking back', pining for what "once was".
I ascribe to the model that your M is dead - that she killed it.
If you offer the gift of R, and if she does all that work (& is remorseful as I mentioned above) - you can have a new M.
That's completely wonderful and exciting.
But from what you're describing here - ummm no.
She's not even transparent, let alone remorseful.
Do yourself a favor and
Use the anger-hand to grab your balls, put your foot down, get pro-active about protecting yourself. Leave the fixing-this-shit (or not!) to her.
We are going to MC in a couple of weeks. I started the 180 offensive last night and it was already noticed, Got a lot of "is everything ok?" from her. I just stopped having convo's w her and stopped the positive attention that she has not earned back. I am not worried about being the bad guy. If you haven't read already her A is all my fault. We have joint bank accounts that I check daily since the A. I know if 1 penny gets moved. She will not see a lawyer because she wants me to start any D proceedings so that she can be the poor wife who was abandoned. The only sticky part of a D for me is child custody and the oldest DD(14) knows what has happened because she is a convo snooper. She has already stated she goes with me. I have some sort of moral need to try to work this out, but my eyes and my mind are open and the thread holding us together gets thinner everyday she does not come clean. I will wait for the MC to put my foot down. I am afraid that once this anger comes out I will not be able to contain it. A controlled environment is better for me in this situation. Also I have not really tried to change much that I do. She does need to fix whatever BS she has going on or get out. Everyday my resolve grows and I am able to accept that this may never get fixed. Playing golf today so I can get some stress relief. Have a great day.
Did the 180 thing this weekend and it made for a pleasant time. She kept asking if everything was ok and for a while it was. Last night I just let some of it fly. Told her I was tired of being the scapegoat,she needed to take responsibility for her actions and that I did not believe her story. She went in full blame mode and I shut it down. Just not going to sit there and let her lie amd blame me anymore. Earlier in the day I saw her cell password so I snooped. Same crap. Texts to her friend saying how tempted she was to contact the om. Talking about how she needed to make the decision to unfriend the om on fb. I had no right to demand that of her. I was trying to control her life and force my will on her. I am seeing a lawyer this week to see what I need to do to get my affairs in order. If mc on the 21st is more of the same crap I will have to proceed. She would love it if this never came up again. To hell with what I need. I am detaching more everyday and seeing her for what she has become. I am not going to let her get off free after what she did.
I think that when we men/husbands sit down and calmly and analytically think our situation through we can get great resolve. I think we are wired to protect ours. That our initial reaction is to reach out and grab what we see as ours and reel it in.
I’m going to suggest a different tactic:
Think what would be the worst outcome in the present situation.
Once you think about it then a divorce isn’t the worst outcome. I venture that the worst outcome would be – two hours/days/weeks/months/years from now – to discover WW sneaked away to meet OM (or new OM) again. The worst outcome would be to REMAIN in infidelity.
When you see she still talks about wanting to be with OM, not wanting to defriend him and so on… She’s telling you something…
Imagine a guy walks up to you and punches you in the face. He apologizes and helps you to stand up. Then he punches you again. Again he apologizes and helps you to your feet. And punches you…
How many times does he have to do this before you realize he doesn’t seem to like you? How many times before you start wondering if you should maybe stand out of his reach?
Well – Your wife’s mouth might be saying sorry and all that but her actions don’t agree with that. She’s swinging her fists at you.
Tell your wife that you have reached an epiphany:
Losing her is NOT the worst outcome. Sharing her is immensely worse.
And since she isn’t committing to the marriage then you are refusing to share her.
She is therefore totally free to do WHATEVER she wants. She can keep OM as a FB friend, she can date him as a single woman, and she can go to the docks and make out with the whole crew of the cruise-ship. Whatever. BUT NOT AS YOUR WIFE.
If she wants to remain your wife then you require total and accountable NC with OM and serious work on reconciliation including MC and open and frank discussion on what happened and how you two can progress.
But… until and unless she verbally tells you she wants the marriage AND until her actions show she is being honest… You will simply assume the marriage is over and act that way.
No drama. No threats. When and if she talks about how a divorce will go through you tell the truth: There is an established process for divorce that should ensure as fair a result as possible. Yes – it will lead to financial changes and lifestyle changes but that’s down the road.
Then you simply start the long complicated process of how to technically end a marriage. No rush, no running around talking to lawyers (yet). Get your finances in order, account statements, leases and mortgages. Stick to the MC appointment but tell your WW that you should use it to discuss how to break the news to family. Get the house appraised and/or start looking around for comparable houses to get a sense of value. Basically behave, act and implement as if you are headed out of the marriage. Keep on this path until and unless your wife clearly states she want the marriage and tells you how she is going to go about regaining it.
Good advice for sure. Made my appt w the d attorney but just a consult. I have no clue about the best way to prepare for D. Just need advice on how to proceed w finances, child custody, asset distribution. Our lives are completely intertwined with accounts, mortgage all of it. I will make alot more decisions after next monday. Right now I get sex when I want and she is nice to me 99% of the time. I am not fooled by this but blowing it up right now is not the best course of action. The coldness and anger have taken over from the sadness and desperation. I can feel one cold sob taking over. If she was to contact the om then my choice would be easy she just does not have the balls to do it again because the perfect picture she gives to the church people and work people would be destroyed. Now that I am committed to losing weight and working out she gets worried about why I am doing this now. Time for her to worry. I am down 30lbs and want to lose 20 more. So to sum it up mc next week will determine my next course of action.
I have my appt w the D attorney today. Finding out the best way to conduct my business to prepare for a D. I emailed one of the om from the cruise and confronted him about the A. He lied of course but one of the w's former friends called me to check up on me. I told her about the email and it had an unexpected benefit. The lies pissed her off and she opened up to me and told me even more about the cruise and afterwards. The w was so distraught when she got off the boat and couldn't talk to the om she said it was like a highschool girl breaking up w her boyfriend. She also showed me pics my wife forwarded her of the om when she got busted and was clearing out the phone. The w asked her to hold on to the pics so she could get them later. This was the final straw. No more I am done. Mc is monday and I am not holding back. Admit come clean or get the f out.I have taken pics of her journal I will get screenshots of her texts and notes on her phone. 20 years wasted for a guy she has seen for 3 days. Sure hope they are soul mates because the sidewalk is sure cold. She has no friends left and the om has not talked to her since 2/28. Hope it was worth it. Have a nice time.
JJCT, great posts I just read. You have a great logical way of explaining things. Very helpful to me.
Sorry your here.
No one in there right want's to be.
SugGestion: get consultaions with as many lawyers as you can. If it comes to D, your WW will have to hunt for a lawyer that hasn't talked to you, that would be a conflict of interest.
[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 9:51 AM, April 17th (Thursday)]
I read your first post and was going to come in here and tell you about what I wished I would have done and when I would have done it.
I will anyway, it might help.
Just to let you know because it happened to me and after you are here a while you will see it too. On a long enough timeline with your WW fence sitting you get to the point of apathy. After you have taken more abuse than you can imagine anyone should take you decide that quite simply, she isn't worth it.
Once you get to this point (It took me months) things change. In my case I provided my wife a list. I said do ANYTHING on this list even once and you are choosing to be divorced. I also made it clear that either choice she made was fine by me.
When I did that she had the nerve to accuse me of wanting a divorce and acted hurt by it. The same woman that was planning her exit. It was really just amazing.
As long as I am alive, my wife is on marital probation. If she flinches we are divorcing. That's my rule. There are worse things than being divorced. You are living through one of them right now.
I applaud your course of action. You are much wiser than I was.
In the end you know what keeps me up at night? It's the fact that I had ALL of the power to stop my pain and didn't take the actions early on to do so. That's what keeps me up.
Your wife needs a wake up call. I think I hear the phone ringing...
Wow. Amazing that people will throw away their whole life on some immature, selfish, escapist fantasy that is straight out of high school, as her friend so aptly said.
I'm so sorry that this is how it is but kudos to you for putting your foot down and moving forward. You are very strong and you will get through this.
My pastor friend who is tryimg to help us called last night. I did not hold back. I told him I was done no more of this for me. She has had every opportunity to come clean and make it better. The longer this has dragged on the more I find out. She still insists everyone is lying and she is being honest. Whatever, that bs don't fly anymore.i told the pastor the only miracle that could happen is that there is an intervention that makes her break down and lay it all out. The problem then is I dont see a way to ever make me believe that this will never happen again. I have alot to offer someone else on the open market who will appreciate what I have. Being second place for your wifes heart is not for me. I am ready to get down and dirty to make sure my kids dont have to live with the crazy person who is about to get shown the door. I have told my sister and closest friends about everything and I have an army of support that has my back. Funny what people will tell you when they see the other side of your spouse that had been yours to deal w in private.
I think you know what you want to do.
Lay it all out in MC.
Stay calm, cool.
Make your wife understand that you no longer will accept her lies.
And that you are prepared to show her consequences for her actions.
Sometimes it takes a spouse to lose her marriage, family and friends before they even begin to see the light.
Stay firm and do what is best for you at this time.
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