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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Weird question, but...
nightmarelife
♀ New Member
Member # 42884
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, April 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In a double betrayal situation when the OBS was a close friend or family member, has any WS ever received forgiveness or been offered a chance at reconciliation with that person? Are there any BSs out there who've considered or tried to forgive the OW/OM if they were a close friend or family member?

Posts: 42 | Registered: Mar 2014
beautytoashes5
♀ Member
Member # 41900
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, April 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here. My WH had a LTA with a family friend. He is also the OW's daughters god father. I want nothing to do with the OW & her children. No forgiveness. Nothing. That relationship is dead.

Posts: 93 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Southern California
pollybuddy
♀ Member
Member # 20742
Default  Posted: 1:15 AM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I actually did try to forgive the OW, who was a VERY close family friend...the kind of 'walk into each other's house's without knocking' kinds of friends.

I worked very, very hard at it for about a year and a half, against the advice of pretty much anyone who knew (very limited list, lol).

It was false R, the affair never ended, and I felt like an even bigger fool for having attempted forgiveness.

I still think it's possible, but it's incredibly hard for all involved.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 11/1989
One child, daughter, born 2/99
Affair: EA turned PA for 4 1/2 months.D Day 11/19/07 OW WAS employee/friend.
D Day 2, 4/30/09:OOPS turns out it never ended, I've been in false R for a year and a half.
Status:

Posts: 1005 | Registered: Aug 2008
BeautifulEmpty
♀ Member
Member # 38763
Default  Posted: 3:05 AM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine is a little weird because I thought the OW and I were best friends but in actuality, her becoming my friend was a long con just to be near my husband so they could continue their affair. My H was trying to force me to accept polyamory (again). OW was trying to make me insignificant and become me.
But....I thought she was my best friend.
After all the lying and subterfuge as well as her trying to literally take my life and everything in it away, I will never speak to her again unless she shows up on my doorstep, in which case I will speak to her at the end of my crossbow as I dial the police.
End of story.


Me: 42 BS
Him: 38 ws
Ow: 44 head case, no obs
5 DD's: 21, 18, 17, 15, 10
Last D-day: August 2012 with lots of very blurry lines.

Posts: 264 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Washington State
nightmarelife
♀ New Member
Member # 42884
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pollybuddy, that's horrible. I commend you for trying so hard, and more for believing that it's still possible after everything she and your H have done.

The OBS in my A is my SIL. My A with her husband lasted two months, and after DDay there was no false R and both me and my BIL offered sincere apologies to her and my BS (several of them in fact and mostly via text message). At her request, I also gave her a chance to express her anger and outrage at what I did in person and I was able to apologize at the same time. She was trying to forgive me for the first few months, if not for me for herself and her children (my niece and nephews whom she still allows me to see) and the rest of the family. Since she's requested not to see me for a few to several months, I'm not sure where she's at right now. My inlaws and I are all very active Christians and believe in forgiveness but I'm not sure it will ever happen. And I understand completely. I hate that she may have to go through more pain and trauma by seeing me again at Christmas, other holidays, weddings, and funerals. I'm sure it hurts her so much that her kids like me and probably talk about me. She must really love her children to allow them to have a relationship with me. You don't know how much it helps me to know there are people like you out there. It gives me some hope that one day if she keeps trying, maybe God will give her peace and things will be a little more bearable for her in regards to me. But maybe I'm a fool for even thinking that's possible.

WW (me) - 32
BH - 36
DS 5, DD 3
Dday - 10/25/13
Reconciling


Posts: 42 | Registered: Mar 2014
Freebygrace
♀ Member
Member # 42484
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bs here. The ow was my BFF, very close friends. I have learned that there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. I have forgiven her. I no longer wish her harm, most of the time but I do not want to continue a friendship with her.


Me: BS 45
Him: fWH 48
OW: my BFF well not forever apparently
Lots of kids, married 22 years
DDay: 01/16/01
On the fence about R or D?

Posts: 109 | Registered: Feb 2014
Sammy2013
♀ Member
Member # 41040
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wouldn't consider the OW a friend. I was friendly with her. We met them at a theme park (they live in other state WH was friends with her and her husband in high school), friends on FB. I welcomed her into my life with open arms. She acted like she could be a good friend.

I am trying to get to indifference. That will be the closest I can get away from hating her.

As for forgiveness, I will never be able to have that with this OW. She is not remorseful and sees nothing wrong with what she did ("friends with benefits") even though she had to lie to her husband when I told him about the affair. Forgiveness is not something that can be done when the person doesn't see they have done something wrong to be forgiven for.

With OW no. 2, she has never offered an apology. However, I do know she is remorseful and feels guilt and shame for what she did to my family and hers. I would never be able to be friends with her (didn't know her in RL), but I find myself having feelings of forgiveness towards her. Maybe it's indifference, I'm not sure. She was in a bad place in her marriage and made a horrible decision. She was also vulnerable and my WH took advantage of that for his own needs. I truly pity her. I often wonder if she is on here when I read some of the posts.


WH -37; BS (me) 38
Married 12 years, 3 kiddos
First DDay 9/13. 3 more since then (trickle truth sucks). 6 years of Prostitutes, 2 affairs in 2013, SA diagnosis now with 1 relapse so far (massage parlor with happy ending 2/14).
Waiting, observing,

Posts: 210 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Southeast United States
Angel177
♀ Member
Member # 37274
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here. The OBS in my situation was wh's best friend. Wh was the best man at obs wedding to ow. Obs was one of the best men at our wedding too.

He has forgiven wh. He is here at least two or three nights a month for supper, he came and had Christmas supper with us, he and wh text and hang out more then they did when obs was married to ow. I have yet to encounter a situation quite like ours.

Obs and ow are divorced and have no children so none of us have anything to do with ow.


Me:BS
Him:WH
D-Day Sept. 14/12...R started Dec. 3/12
Together-10 years Married-5 years
Daughter-3
Son-13 months (died July 2, 2014)
Baby #3 due Feb. 2015
4 month EA and 4 month EA/PA in 2012 with my "friend"

Posts: 251 | Registered: Oct 2012
Furious1
♀ Member
Member # 42970
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here. One of the OW was my sister. She and WH had a 3 year LTA.

No, I will not forgive my sister for her betrayal for several reasons. First, she continues to deny that anything ever happened. Second, she continues to cheat on her husband with anyone willing. Third, she was one of my abusers when I was growing up. Fourth, she has absolutely no remorse or guilt for any damage she has inflicted on anyone who she has done wrong. To her, everyone else was asking for it, even her own kids. Fifth, she is my flesh and blood and that means absolutely nothing to her. If anything, that made me an even bigger target in her quest to prove she is better than everyone else.

Even if she were to work on her issues and change for the better, my relationship with her is beyond anything I would ever want to repair. As far as I am concerned, she is dead to me. When she passes away, I won't even go to her funeral and she will definitely not be allowed to come to mine. I don't even plan on going to my mother's funeral if she is going to be there. She burned the bridge between us and I'm not bothering to rebuild it because she is still standing on the other side holding matches and gasoline.


BW (me): 41 WH (him): 49
Married 18 years. SD: 26 from his 1st. M. DS: 21 from 1st M. DD: 17 (autistic)
D-day: 10/4/13 with ongoing TT (last TT was 10/2/14).
2 OC with 2 different OW. 15 year A with my sister.

Posts: 325 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
nightmarelife
♀ New Member
Member # 42884
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Beautifulempty, that's awful! I'm so sorry. I understand how you feel. My SIL and I were never close, despite many attempts long before the A to be her friend. But after the A started I actually withdrew from her.

Freebygrace, I commend your forgiveness. And I learned that distinction as well. I pray that my SIL at least forgives me one day.

Sammy2013, I would be happy if one day she felt indifferent. My marriage was also in a horrible spot (my BH had self-diagnosed severe "sleeping problems" and hadn't had a job for 3 years. The year before the A he'd had an EA almost PA with our live-in nanny that he had never acknowledged was an affair or showed any proper remorse/guilt. Against my wishes he'd been freeloading off of my parents and his to survive financially. My BIL/AP (unknown to me) had always had a crush on me and hated my BH for treating me this way. He stepped in to offer advice and save me. Instead he (who'd had a previous PA that I had no knowledge of) took advantage of me in my vulnerable state. But I should've known better. That doesn't excuse my actions. My SIL knows all this and I hope one day it will help her forgive me.

The last thing I heard from my SIL/OBS is that she no longer wishes me any ill will, which I suppose is the same thing as not hating me any longer. At the time I wasn't sure exactly what that meant and it didn't feel like much progress but I realize now that if what she said is really true, it's significant progress and probably took a lot of painful work. Even if she can't handle being in the same room with me right now, what a gift and small step towards forgiveness that is.

Angel177, that's incredible! Thanks so much for sharing. My unattainable dream is just that one day my SIL/OBS and I will be able to attend every family event we'd like with as little awkwardness as possible.

WW (me) - 32
BH - 36
Married 12 years
DS 5, DD 3, baby #3 on the way!
Dday - 10/25/13
Reconciling


Posts: 42 | Registered: Mar 2014
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are almost a year out. I asked for and received an apology from the AP, a previous friend. I received a very self-serving and vapid apology, which showed me a lot about who she really is.

My H also sent an apology to the OBS, and I know he wishes he could at least ease OBS's pain a little. I can almost see them being able to mend the fences a small amount -- but for me, I don't think so. My ex-friend laid in wait for years until my H hit a particularly bad time. And then, either willfully or not, she weaseled her way in. As much as an a$$hole as my H was, he never had feelings for her (or an attraction) before the A, so I will always feel preyed upon in a way that the other OBS doesn't have reason to.

So, I may forgive eventually for my own mental health, but in our case the AP is simply not a person worth reconnecting with. I was just thinking this morning how, ironically, while we were friends, probably both my H and I liked her H more than her. (Until, you know -- she started blowing unicorn sunshine up my H's Levis.) So messed up.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2065 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of FWW's OM was an EA (PA?) with her sister's H (BIL). I was open to forgiveness and moving forward had he apologized and shown any contrition. He has not. It makes large family events and FWW visiting with her sister difficult.

--Ats


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4133 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
nightmarelife
♀ New Member
Member # 42884
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It makes large family events and FWW visiting with her sister difficult.

atsenaotie, so I assume you FWW's sister/OBS has forgiven FWW? Were they able to reconcile their relationship?


Posts: 42 | Registered: Mar 2014
lostandhopless
♂ Member
Member # 41568
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OM was more than a best friend. He and STBXW broke a cardinal rule in the community we associate with. Although I personally have forgiven both of them, they flaunted it all over town without any consideration for anyone.. Our friends have ostracized and disassociated them. They have all said they will never forgive them or forget it...


Be careful who you trust. Even your shadow will abandon you when it's dark.....

Divorced 6/13/14


Posts: 118 | Registered: Dec 2013
BeautifulEmpty
♀ Member
Member # 38763
Default  Posted: 2:41 AM, April 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nightmare life...I commend you for asking and for the steps you are taking...even just in wishing forgiveness.
My H had many other women. With only a couple of exceptions, I never held upset, anger or even lack of forgiveness. People make mistakes or sometimes just aren't thinking long term or about the other people involved.
I know many BS don't care much what the reasons are and I'd never call them out on it. It's their pain to handle however they see fit but for me, it was never a thing. I could see where each one came from.
It never hurt that I'd done my fair share of seriously bad behavior...I could understand many things I'd rather not...until the last OW.
That situation just seared my heart so thoroughly, I'm not sure I'll ever get it back to being able to beat without life support.
I've not, for one second, been able to even imagine forgiveness. I do think about it however, and I know it's for me but I'm still reeling and seething with rage.
Your attitude goes a long way towards a BS reaching real healing and forgiveness in a seriously messed up situation but even if the OBS in your sitch never forgives, you've made me glad that at least there's one OW out there who really gets it.
I will never get that from the borderline personality disordered OW in my world who left me with the letter explaining how it was all me who messed up her relationship and a million other things. As such, the only forgiveness I could ever offer would be the kind that happens by default when she fades from my faulty memory and I no longer remember she ever existed.


Me: 42 BS
Him: 38 ws
Ow: 44 head case, no obs
5 DD's: 21, 18, 17, 15, 10
Last D-day: August 2012 with lots of very blurry lines.

Posts: 264 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Washington State
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, April 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

atsenaotie, so I assume you FWW's sister/OBS has forgiven FWW? Were they able to reconcile their relationship?

nightmarelife,

Sort of.

I did not contact FWW's sister after dday. I had two thoughts at the time. First was that I was planning to D FWW, so I did not see any need to out her A to her sister. Also, FWW's sister knew of her other APs, and never gave me any heads-up over the years, so I was not real concerned about giving her a heads-up either.

After discussing it with the IC/MC, who I trust and have a great deal of faith in, FWW apologized to her sister for her "flirting and inappropriate" relationship with BIL. Had her sister inquired, she was prepared to tell more about the relationship, but her sister's response was sort of OK, whatever.

FWW does not come from a healthy family, and her sister has some issues from that. Even without the EA with her BIL, FWW now sees that she needs to minimize contact with her sister for her own emotional health. Still, they visit on the phone and when FWW goes to her home state to see her Dad, her sister often comes to visit.

In retrospect, I do not know if telling FWWs sister about the proof I had of an EA would have made much difference to her. FWWs sister and BIL are living in the same house, but otherwise estranged and neither particularly likes the other. She stays in the M for reasons other than love and partnership. She takes a lot of medications that leave her with a pretty flat affect. Also, there had been a long history with FWW and her BIL flirting and him once saying he married the wrong sister in reference to sex.

We are going to a wedding soon and FWWs sister and BIL will be there, probably sitting at the same table as us. It will not be a comfortable situation for me, FWW, and I presume BIL.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:42 AM, April 17th (Thursday)]


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4133 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
nightmarelife
♀ New Member
Member # 42884
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I commend you for asking and for the steps you are taking...even just in wishing forgiveness. ... Your attitude goes a long way towards a BS reaching real healing and forgiveness in a seriously messed up situation but even if the OBS in your sitch never forgives, you've made me glad that at least there's one OW out there who really gets it.

Beautifulempty, I don't think that it's a coincidence that you sent me these words on a day I really needed to hear them. I'm finally crawling out of the pit of despair that I've been in for the last few days. So thank you.

I haven't always gotten it but as I've been reading accounts of BS's on SI and really trying to put myself in my BH/SIL's shoes, I think I've gotten as close as I can to understanding what it's like to be on the other side. It probably also helps that my BH had a LTEA almost PA with our live-in nanny before my own A, which he denied was an A until we started MC earlier this year. There wasn't a lot of deceit because he insisted that they were just "friends" and did almost everything in the relationship out in the open despite my wishes that she move out but I remember the feelings I had when he confessed how far the relationship had gone and especially the romantic feelings the OW was developing for him. In hindsight I think that we could've prevented my own A if we would've owned our issues and sought therapy then, but that's a story for another day.

atsenaotie, ok, that makes sense but it sounds like FWW's sister would feel the same if she knew it was an EA. You and her family live in different states? That must be a huge relief. We all live in the same town.

I wish you the best of luck at the wedding. My FIL is running for a local political position this spring and I'm trying not to fret about bumping into my BIL/AP and SIL/OBS at political events and having to stand on the stage with them during important speeches. Then there's the fact that we both own vacation homes on the same street and may end up vacationing at the same time, since my SIL and her children often stay for 6 weeks of the summer. I have no idea how we'll handle the holidays yet but it's too far away to know. My BH is hopeful that we'll all be able to handle sitting down together for Thanksgiving dinner. His faith in his sister and his efforts to forgive his BIL are inspiring.

WW (me) - 32
BH - 36
Married 12 years
DS 5, DD 3, baby #3 on the way!
Dday - 10/25/13
Reconciling


Posts: 42 | Registered: Mar 2014
SpotlessMind
♀ Member
Member # 41775
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of my husband's OW was a friend of mine. We did family/couple/individual outings together and our children played together.

I entertained allowing her back into my life on an individual basis, at some point, but after talking with friends and my IC, I'm not sure that's a good idea. She'd have to prove she'd done a lot of work on herself, bc I've since realized she has some pretty narcissistic and competitive qualities.

I can forgive her, but I need to make sure I'm making healthy decisions for myself going forward...and in the absence of major changes and self-discovery on her part, her friendship would not be a healthy thing for me.


fWS/BS--me
BH/WH--him
Married: 12 yrs
D-Day: October
Kids: yes

Posts: 277 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Where am I?
Topic Posts: 18

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