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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Humility....the key to growing.
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So it has appeared to me that humility is the key to growing.

I never thought myself a prideful man. Afterall, I was not the arrogant blow-hard, self promoting person we all know and avoid.

I have since learned that pride takes many forms....and I was very guilty of pride. I was quick to poke fun at myself, didn't seem unnecesarily defensive when I stumbled in my career....so I thought I was humble.

I suspect this is going to be a life-long awareness to keep pride in check. I will forever search for the line between confidence and being overly prideful.


This trial has done a great job of humbling me.

My wifes choice of adultery had some humbling components to it for sure, but those components could only humble her (painful for me, but not humbling....hear me out on this)

My wifes choice to commit adultery is not where my humility came from. I could have raised up in pride and divorced......found a cute young thing and forever pridefully lived in the false confidence that I did the right thing. Falsely believing that I was not flawed and I knew how to do relationships right...my wife was the one that screwed it all up.

But I have seen how THAT looks....I need look no further than my divorced parents who, 30 years later, believe the other was the broken one. I am not boasting how much better I am then my parents.....I am telling you, I had this same strong drive in me (particularly during my RA phase) to do exactly what they did. I intentionally moved away from my Mom early on....I was concerned she would feed into my pride, tell me things that society at large would say to me (you deserve better, how dare she, etc.). It was a tough time for me.....I soooo wanted comfort, but realized I could not seek this from my Mom. Her past pain of her D and my Dads affair was not healed. It had not healed because my Mom never slowed down and looked at how she contributed to an unhealthy marriage.

It was made tougher as I started to really see my own actions in the true light they should be in....prohibiting me from reaching for my comfort vices (porn, work, tasks) that were proving to be false-intimacy and intimacy blockers.

If I had chosen to D I would have repeated a family cycle. Furthermore, I would have stopped growing....my pride would keep me from growing. When you think you know everything, it is impossible to learn something new. My new GF or wife would see me, most likely, repeat intimacy-blocking choices and cycles......

If I stayed married I could have chosen to not change, rug sweep, and never looked inside myself and seen MY OWN PRIDEFUL choices for what they were and not been humbled by their dreadful consequences. So my wifes affair, while painful, was not in itself a humbling experience for ME.


What appears to me is that true, geniune humbling comes from actions you choose by yourself and do to yourself....you choose all on your own and have consequences felt by those actions.

My wife choosing adultery was not mine to own.....had no role in it...was not consulted at all....humbling could not occur to me by my wifes actions. Certainly, it should and has humbled her...afterall, it was HER choices. But that is not a given.....her AP has chosen to NOT be humbled by it, and was into another affair within 2 months of dumping my wife.

The humbling I have experienced from my wifes choice to chose adultery was NOT tied to her choices. My pain that led to growing humility in me was that from my own dreadful choices upon DD and for a few months afterwards. It was from THOSE choices and consequences that humbling has occurred within me.

Most all sin has components of pride in it.


Just a fairly complete thought as I work through my own issues.

There is a tie between pride and control......still working on that.

What I am also realizing, and my wifes affair brought this home to roost very directly, is that "control" is a fantasy.

Shame I spent so much of my life believing I had control over as much as I did.....really, you can only control yourself...and even that is limited to our choices.

kinda wandering.....had a tough 2 days at work were things where a bit out of control. Some of the chaos WAS a result of my choices.....noticed I wanted to defend my pride....when I really just needed to confess I made a poor choice......


Felt like sharing.


God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 4:54 PM, April 15th (Tuesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
twisted
♂ Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for sharing, and I can certainly relate.

There is a tie between pride and control......still working on that.

or, as I put it for electing to try to fix the marriage,
...am I being stubborn or stupid?


"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 893 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Twisted,

You're welcome.


Just to let you know I edit my posts a number of times. I added this since you posted.....

If I stayed married I could have chosen to not change, rug sweep, and never looked inside myself and seen MY OWN PRIDEFUL choices for what they were and not been humbled by their dreadful consequences. So my wifes affair, while painful, was not in itself a humbling experience for ME.


I believe it ties into your comment of....

am I being stubborn or stupid?


I kinda get that you were having a bit of fun here....but I think motivation plays a lot into healthy R after an affair.

If a BS avoids and rug sweeps...perhaps in an effort to avoid looking inside their own selves....then pride MIGHT be a blocker for them as well.


I tell you....it is quite unnerving to look inside your own self and see parts for the first time as they ARE rather than how you had PERCIEVED them to be.

Several times I wanted to turn and look away...thinking

"Oh, that can't be me. I am better than THAT!"

Pride at work.


"We are just friends"

"It is just sex"

many justifications for sin can be traced back and have some components of pride.


The stubborness you mention?


Perserverence is a noble trait....I prefer that term over stubborness.

Peace

[This message edited by blakesteele at 4:55 PM, April 15th (Tuesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blakesteele- this is all great to realize. I suffer from pride as well.
You know that you could have done all this work before her affair and she still probably would have had it? You were a contributor to a marriage but not an affair.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Slide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4495 | Registered: Dec 2010
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Rachelc)))

Thanks for the kind nudge.

As I tread through this part of my journey I continue to be aware of my codependent past. I have had moments that I slip....and have reached out to others regularly to keep from falling.

I continue to find motivation within to both fix what I can and stay out of comfortable old ruts.

Also, I have seen plenty of evidence that what motivated my wife to do as she did was well established before we ever met. That is a truth that I own to my core.....it took much growing and humility for me to get to this point.

Thanks for the continued caring and support.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
twisted
♂ Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Too stubborn to admit that perhaps my marriage has failed or too stupid to give up and move on?

My humility is not caring whether she goes or stays, I will continue on. Control is indeed limited to which direction we take when presented a choice. My WW will only change to the extent that she is willing.

It is a balancing act. A work in progress, for sure.



"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 893 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well said Twisted!

[This message edited by blakesteele at 7:06 PM, April 15th (Tuesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, April 15th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Post and Spot On

The best definition I ever heard of humility is:
"A correct assessment of our Assets and Liabilities"
- meaning our character strengths and our character weaknesses.

Self deception through denial, justification, rationalization, and minimization is what keeps us from growing or from even knowing we need to grow for that matter.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2527 | Registered: Aug 2012
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Self deception through denial, justification, rationalization, and minimization is what keeps us from growing or from even knowing we need to grow for that matter.

Nicely put AFrayedNot.

Another wise statement by a fellow SI member!!!

Now.......my pride is hurt! Look how some folks can get right to the heart of the matter in 1 sentence...and it takes me 7 paragraphs to express the same essence!?!?


Please....someone post something long and winding and pointless so I feel better about myself!!!

Kinda feeling froggy this morning.....

Peace

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:05 AM, April 16th (Wednesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
RomanticInnocenc
♀ Member
Member # 43041
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very interesting musings/learnings here. Being at the beginning of my journey I obviously have a lot of growing to do as I navigate this wild ocean of a life I now have.

Pride, humility, humbleness... Words that I have never really thought about much. I think considering the magnitude of the event of infidelity it can be very easy to get caught up in your pride, dismiss the marriage altogether, not because you really want to but because your pride is wounded. Staying centred and being willing to listen to your inner truth outside of the fog of pride I think is what allows one to find humility and humbleness. On Dday, I knew my feelings for WH were not gone, I knew that I wanted our future still, so I offered him the chance to choose me! In fact I would not let him leave our bedroom in the end until he hugged me and could walk out feeling he no longer loved me. That act, which at times I have regretted because of my pride, but that act alone broke his fog and begun the process for him to see who he was, what he had done and who he had done it to.

I knew if I decided to attempt R that I would have to accept part of the 'blame' if he chose to hurt me again. I also knew that if I wanted to really give this marriage a real chance I had to be willing to look inward and not only look at my own insecurities etc, but what I wasn't bringing to the marriage before. Not because that caused the affair but because rebuilding on a shaky old perception of our marriage just wasn't going to cut it anymore.

I had to be willing to be vulnerable again, I think vulnerability is a key word here too. I waiver on this all the time for obvious reasons, but if you can't open yourself to being vulnerable again then I think pride has something to do with it.

Anyway, my tired ramblings for the night.


Me: BS 31
WH: 29 (theseseatsRtaken)
DS: 6 months old
Together 10 years, married 2.
DD1: 8th of Jan 2014
DD2: 10th of Jan 2014
NC: 8th of Jan
In hopeful R!

Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if you can't open yourself to being vulnerable again then I think pride has something to do with it.

I disagree with this. I think it's self-preservation. And very necessary at times to prevent being hurt. I'm not 100% vulnerable with my husband and it's not because of my pride, its because of fear. There are other things my pride gets in the way of but not this.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Slide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4495 | Registered: Dec 2010
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Rachelc,

I agree there is more to being vulnerable than just lack-of-pride.....but if one pridefully thinks they are "vulnerable enough" and "know all" they will limit themselves....and the limiting factor in this case is pride.

I get your point....self-protection is necessary. Pride does not tie to self-protection. Self-esteem is required for self-protection.

Healthy self-esteem is beneficial. It is not the same thing as healthy-pride....I don't think there is such a thing as healthy pride. Healthy self-esteem is good.

Pride is very different from self-esteem (self-worth). Pride is simply defined as one’s feelings of excessive self worth whereas self-esteem can be synonymous to self-worth, but not necessarily that high. Hence, self-esteem is a stable level of self-worth. It is rather the aggregate sum of one’s feelings of worthiness.


Before my wifes affair I had plenty of pride, but lacked healthy self-esteem. I was not arrogant in the traditional sense, but I had plenty of pride.

My lack of self-esteem was hidden by me.....with the use of various career, family, and personal external accomplishments. I decieved myself.

If one has healthy self esteem they can take critisizm and keep relatively calm. If a person is guilty of pride, they will get defensive immediately upon any critisizm.

There is a tie to the "stableness" of a person and their "self-esteem".

Certainly....I am just figuring some of this out.

I would have sworn on a bible 3 years ago I was a humble man.

But now, as I learn about pride, I see how I had excessive self-worth (pride) as part of my makeup.


Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pride, humility, humbleness... Words that I have never really thought about much. I think considering the magnitude of the event of infidelity it can be very easy to get caught up in your pride, dismiss the marriage altogether, not because you really want to but because your pride is wounded. Staying centred and being willing to listen to your inner truth outside of the fog of pride I think is what allows one to find humility and humbleness.


Dang RomanticInnocenc......so much wisdom, so early on!!!! Your gonna get out of this trial before ME!!!!!!!

Well stated. Congrats on a self-awareness that took me $$$$$$ and time to start to understand.

Never noticed your posts before, but your post to this thread has me interested in following your journey.....I believe I could at least be encouraged by you, if not actually learn something from you.

Way to go girl!

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:49 AM, April 16th (Wednesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well, Blakesteele, all i can say is if I leave this relationship because of pride that'll be ok.

Staying with someone for two years to see if they can man up to a remorseful recovery after an affair - I can't think of anything more humble and pride swallowing.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Slide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4495 | Registered: Dec 2010
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((rachelc)))

Yes, I agree.

A couple we know and care about are struggling. Inappropriate facebook exchanges between her husband and the OW point clearly that at least an EA has occurred, and his odd travel plans lead me to suspect a full blown PA is under way.

Her lack of self-esteem has allowed her to minimize what took place.

His pride has allowed him to think they were just friends and he had it under control.

You mention that your husband should have been served sufficient humble pie to step up and change.

In this couples case, I think the husband didn't have any taste of humble pie due to the factors I mentioned.

I pray for them daily. I wonder if they would be processing and growing any better if one of them had recognized the offense in the light it TRUTHFULLY belongs in......


I know your husband has been slower than average to accept full responsibility for his decisions. Until this occurs, true humbling will be impaired. My wife did that...but has since owned her choices as hers. I thought your husband was gaining some foothold on his choices as his and his alone. I know he blamed your A for his choices initially....but thought he had turned a corner.

Mind if I ask if he has indeed turned the corner I speak of?

Thanks for your continued support and engagement. You counterpoints are always welcome and have lead me to furhter exploration and growth.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
RomanticInnocenc
♀ Member
Member # 43041
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rachelc - please don't misunderstand me, of course pride isn't the only factor in vulnerability. But there is a difference between being too prideful to open up a little, recognise what you want and start taking small steps towards that person and shutting down and playing the blame game all the time. For example, you did this, I was always there for you, so I'm not doing ic or mc, you fix it! That to me is pride, and I think as BS we are all guilty of it at some point. To me, judging from your post, you are dealing with a WS who is not showing the remorse or actions that allow you great scope for vulnerability, of course you are going to protect yourself and be weary. I hope that he comes around! In my case I had to show great vulnerability before wh could see the truth, luckily it was on dday #1 that he could wake from the fog, realise I was still standing there wanting our life together and not immediately demanding a d! That in the face of him having destroyed my world I could show him love. Had he not responded the way I desired and left me for the ow I would have been showing him my strength and tenacity that he couldn't break me, I could live life without him.

Blakesteele- appreciate your comments, I love talking about in depth emotional topics. I'm not sure if you would call me wise. I'm an observer and a big thinker and since my WH affair someone who has had to desperately cling to what it is that I truly want instead of kicking him to the curb because he betrayed me! It's hard and there is a desperate desire to shove him away. Luckily he is showing all the signs of being remorseful. Love is powerful though and if you can't open up and take a chance to having your heart broken again then what is life? It remains bleak and sad and eventually turns into always being alone. Don't get me wrong wh does not have full access to my heart again yet, but I'm hopeful that he can prove deserving of it! :-)


Me: BS 31
WH: 29 (theseseatsRtaken)
DS: 6 months old
Together 10 years, married 2.
DD1: 8th of Jan 2014
DD2: 10th of Jan 2014
NC: 8th of Jan
In hopeful R!

Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks you guys - good stuff! Yes, going to IC and MC to work on yourself and your marriage - that is humilty, didn't think of it that way.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Slide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4495 | Registered: Dec 2010
Topic Posts: 17

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