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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: After 18 mths I have my 'Why'
SecondHelping
♂ Member
Member # 36796
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On D-Day, fWW gave me some 'Why's but after joining SI, I knew they were reactionary. I got: Stress Relief, Curiosity, You were the only one I had been with.

I asked her to seek out the reason why with here IC and tell me when she found out.

After 18 months with her IC she told me the reason why was "She was lonely". They had explored a lot of stuff but keep coming back to being lonely.

I don't know what to think. So was I.


D-Day 1: Feb 1990
D-Day 2: 3 Sep 2012 (3 month EA/3 week PA)
BS 49, fWW 43 (Amibroken)
OP- Police Chief (Age 37)
M 25 Yrs, 3 Kids (17, 14, 11)
I initated the relationship at the Railway Tavern, she tried to end it at Scrap Tavern

Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Delmarva
RipsInMyChest
♀ Member
Member # 41166
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It sounds like they have not dug deep enough. Many people are lonely and don't cheat!!! WHY did she cheat....well the typical and almost universal reason is selfishness. And usually a good dose of poor coping skills.

Poor coping skills can come in many forms: comunication(conflict avoidance, stuffing down emotions, etc.); stress (using sex as stress relief); intimacy (FOO issues make being authentic and vulnerable too scary--so they avoid it); self esteem issues (dealing with feelings of inadequacy by seeking external validation).

Those are the reasons they would want/need to cheat. How they act on it is selfishness, entitlement, rationalizations (what they told themselves to make it "ok"), eroded or absent moral compass, lack of integrity, lack of impulse control, poor boundaries, etc.

A good question to ask her is WHY she felt like being lonely made it ok to cheat? Why not deepen her connection with YOU and ask for what she needed from YOU? How was cheating a viable option for her?


Me: BW 41
FWH 41
Together 21 yrs, M 18, 2 kids
DDay: 12/11/12 ONS with CW
Used condom, got chlamydia anyway.

His betrayal of me was not because I didn't shine brightly enough, but because he chose to put on blinders.


Posts: 261 | Registered: Oct 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that's a start. I agree, finding out why it was okay to cheat if you're lonely is probably more important.

have her keep digging.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think lonely is a "why." It isn't the whole picture, and it isn't what allowed her to (that is more the realm of poor coping skills, etc.). Her "why" why won't ever tell you what in particular made her do it and not you. For most waywards it is a perfect storm of circumstances -- opportunity+ feeling bad about themselves+ needing escape+ wanting a connection, etc.

Selfishness? Sure. One has to be selfish to have an affair, but does it cause them? Lots of selfish people won't cheat.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2058 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Next questions for her to address:

if you felt lonely, why didn't you reach out to H? What did you tell yourself that enabled you to cheat?


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10352 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do think that could be her "why", although maybe not the only one. When she should be looking into is her "how". How was she able to just push your marriage aside and do it. Like everyone else said that usually comes with poor coping skills or communication issues.

I know my WH and I have both.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was lonely, too. I have to agree. That answer is not enough because it is a shallow, surface answer. The loneliness did not cause her descent into cheating. It may have been an issue in her life, but she had many options other than infidelity. The why question would be "why, when you felt the loneliness, did you consider cheating to be a good response in your life?

That's like using the "I was not getting enough _______, so I cheated". You can insert nearly any answer in there. It still does not answer, why did you chose cheating to resolve that empty blank?


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1526 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nope that's not her real why. Ok she was lonely, but Why was she lonely in her M? That's where her real answer lies. Why did being lonely allow her to be ok with her decision to cheat?
When you get those answers, then you have your why, and how to fix it.

Being lonely? What's the fix for that? What happens when she gets Lonely again?

See what I mean, it's more than that. She is doing good, but she has to dig deeper still.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8707 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Suspicious  Posted: 10:52 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know why (I better explore that ) but I immediately reacted with anger to your fWW's "why".

Wow, how self serving. To me it doesn't sound like ownership at all, but it reflects back on you. Why was she lonely? Because YOU didn't pay enough attention to her. Craptastic!

If she had said something more along the lines of "I was lonely and instead of being mature and talking to SecondHelping, I decided it was easier and more fun to go fuck someone else" that would be a start. I feel she has a lot more digging to do about her why's and how's.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:54 AM, April 21st (Monday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9798 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
NoMorDeceit
♀ Member
Member # 23547
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lonely?? Meh. Lonely is a problem. Lonely isn't the underlying belief system that allowed her to say "I'm lonely...so even though I'm married I'll get involved with X to not feel lonely". The real why is the "what" in her belief system that allowed her to step out in the first place. Most of us have in place a belief system that tells us cheating is wrong, dead wrong, so wrong we are unable to do so (even when at times that would seem an easy solution). We can't, we are constrained by our beliefs that doing so is dead wrong. So what your wife needs to get to the bottom of is why didn't she hold cheating as a "dead wrong". So wrong she couldn't act on it.

Her "I am lonely so I'll cheat" is like saying "I'm hungry so I'll go throw fido on the grill". For most of us that is just is a "dead wrong", non-starter, visceral reaction type of thing. Another example: "I'm broke so I'll go rob a bank". Again, for most of us a dead wrong. Non starter. What is/was missing in your wife is the step between lonely/hungry/broke--->missing driving belief--->cheating/grilling up fido/robbing a bank. She needs to figure out the driving belief that allowed "cheating" to be the answer to that problem.

It may be a case of "fluid ethics", selfishness, narcissism, entitlement or any number of driving beliefs. Some of those can't be fixed, but they can be managed so that the next time she gets lonely or whatever, she makes a different choice. She may have to make a choice (where most of us just see a hard stop)and that can be hard to accept. You want it to be that visceral hard stop that most of us feel and some people are just never going to feel that way, but they can learn to make different choices, to choose better less harmful and hurtful ways to cope with their problems.

I guess what I am saying is, nice that she has identified the problem she had after 18 months, now she needs to go back and dig into her belief systems and find out what drove her to see cheating as an "answer" and what allowed her to act on it. That underlying belief is the one that needs to be changed or managed in a way that allows her to make different, better choices.

[This message edited by NoMorDeceit at 11:34 AM, April 21st (Monday)]


FBS, been through the D marathon too.
Many D Days in April 2009
Multiple affairs, LTAs, and many OWs
Reconciled... There is hope! :)


Posts: 537 | Registered: Apr 2009
SecondHelping
♂ Member
Member # 36796
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the comments.

Later in the "Why" discussion, fWW mentioned that she didn't mean this to happen. When she first went to meet him, she had in her mind that she was going to meet him to tell him nothing was going to happen/they were just friends. She ended up holding hands and kissing him. I told her that is exactly what she needs to be figuring out in IC...why she went to stop it and then allowed it to happen/progress.

I agree that fWW is selfish. She always has been. I think at times we all are and I'm no saint. fWW has put herself first most of her life. He enjoyment, pleasure and satifaction almost always come first, even over her kids and me. Yes things have changed quite a bit since D-Day, but these tendencies still come through a lot of the time.

Things are so much better than before and after D-Day. We get along, love and talk to each other now like we haven't for 20 years. We still are not communicating deeply like our MC wants us to, but I've pretty much given up hope that that will ever happen.

I also don't think fWWs IC will ever push her for anything more than "Lonely". IC asked me to come in on fWWs second session and she said "Amibroken had an affair because she thought you didn't love her. Now lets get to this business of why you won't let her be a fireman." I'm like WTF, you think that's the most important thing on the table? I never went back.


D-Day 1: Feb 1990
D-Day 2: 3 Sep 2012 (3 month EA/3 week PA)
BS 49, fWW 43 (Amibroken)
OP- Police Chief (Age 37)
M 25 Yrs, 3 Kids (17, 14, 11)
I initated the relationship at the Railway Tavern, she tried to end it at Scrap Tavern

Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Delmarva
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IC asked me to come in on fWWs second session and she said "Amibroken had an affair because she thought you didn't love her. Now lets get to this business of why you won't let her be a fireman." I'm like WTF, you think that's the most important thing on the table? I never went back.
Wow! Well its no wonder that your fWW hasn't progressed very much with that IC. It seems she supports the selfishness in your fWW.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9798 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
mozzchops
♂ Member
Member # 42896
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fWW mentioned that she didn't mean this to happen. When she first went to meet him, she had in her mind that she was going to meet him to tell him nothing was going to happen/they were just friends. She ended up holding hands and kissing him

Exactly what my WW told me. Of course its easy to say that after it happens. I simply don't buy it.



The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Posts: 116 | Registered: Mar 2014
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lonely as a "why" is like those asinine headlines: "SUV injures three pedestrians."

The test I personally apply to a "why" is, "What is the solution?"

For example. Lack of mature coping techniques for feelings such as loneliness. Works for me, as a why, because the solution is: learn how to self-soothe.

OTOH, what's the solution to loneliness?

Umm...become a firefighter?


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
sunvalley
♀ Member
Member # 42952
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lonely is a symptom that was felt in the marriage at the time. It may be a symptom both the BS and WS felt, which means it is not a cause. The cause is the coping mechanism and rationalization or compartmentalization WS used to deal with the symptom....to artificially make that symptom/emotion go away or numbed. Its a start, but its not a why IMO.


Dday July 2013
Me: BW mid 30s
Him: WH mid 30s
4PAs, multiple online As

Posts: 659 | Registered: Mar 2014
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When she first went to meet him, she had in her mind that she was going to meet him to tell him nothing was going to happen/they were just friends. She ended up holding hands and kissing him. I told her that is exactly what she needs to be figuring out in IC...why she went to stop it and then allowed it to happen/progress.


Yep....you are right on the money here. My wife "tried to break it off" several times. Boldly told herself she this was the LAST time she would meet him. Talked to her sister about her affair before I knew about it...and received the same encouragement....that my wife was in control and should just stop the affair.

Unfortunately....YOU telling her this or pointing it out to her is not going to have much weight. Its sad....but people choosing adultery are so self-centered that you are simply not a factor.

This is where IC is so vitally important.

We still are not communicating deeply like our MC wants us to, but I've pretty much given up hope that that will ever happen.

Don't self-limit your potentials.

I also don't think fWWs IC will ever push her for anything more than "Lonely". IC asked me to come in on fWWs second session and she said "Amibroken had an affair because she thought you didn't love her. Now lets get to this business of why you won't let her be a fireman." I'm like WTF, you think that's the most important thing on the table? I never went back.


Wowsers! Its therapist like this that turn my stomach. These comments are what keep D rates constant at 50% and why we see adultery increasing. This idea that ones own fullfillness and happiness is paramount is anti-relationship, IMHO.

Been to 3 therapists thus far....80 plus sessions.

Had a sex therapist actually recommend to us that we engage in "affair-like sex"! And submitted to us that porn is not all bad. This person was a CSAT, knew of my wifes affair, and my decades long use of porn. We stopped seeing her the session after this suggestion was made....took us another session to confirm what we heard was what she said. She very much had a new-age approach to healing.

This post address's a WS's whys. I have been finding healing and growth to search for my own whys......shocked at some of my hidden influences as to why I do what I do.

Sistermilkshake and Sunvalleys posts are solid responses here.

Particularly like Sunvalleys valid point that loneliness is a symptom of a marriage with struggles.


Our current therapists turned some things around for us.....basically saying a broken marriage is a result of ones own coping skills. Same coping skills that enabled adultery to be chosen, or porn to be chosen.

Still getting my hands around this one...but seems to make more sense in our sitch. My wife did not do anything that made me use porn. I did nothing to make my wife chose adultery. We had those ingredients in us well before we met each other.

The challenge now is to address those coping skills....and change them. Learn to process life rather than just cope with life.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3971 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
heartbrokeninaz
♀ Member
Member # 40779
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think lonely is a why also. There are other underlying aspects to it but lonely is valid. My husband also was lonely. We had a roommate quality marriage. Child based, no communication, no sex marriage. I also was lonely. I just didn't have the willingness to have an A. When we discussed it in greater depth the lonely was at the bottom of the why. It went into much more detail after that. It was about feelings of not being married anymore. About knowing there was a problem but not being able to communicate about it. About giving up and loosing hope. About turning away from each other instead of toward each other. There is more he just may not be able to communicate it to you in the right way. I know my husband can't unless I ask him point blank if he felt this or that at the time.


BW 40 (me)
WH 40
DDay 1 07/31/13 ONS with horseface
DDay 2 05/09/14 inappropriate texts to another woman (not returned)
I live a real life fairy tale. I married prince charming. He kissed a troll. He turned into a frog.

Posts: 207 | Registered: Sep 2013
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think loneliness is a valid why.

After all, it is the 'why' of our site's founder Deeply Scared.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
sudra
♀ Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I disagree that lonely is a "why." It's closer but she shouldn't stop with that.

What happens if she is lonely again?

Why was her solution to loneliness to cheat?


Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1495 | Registered: Nov 2010
circlingthedrain
♂ Member
Member # 25733
Default  Posted: 6:41 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think she and her IC are answering the wrong question. When you ask why, the answer tends to be some external factor...My BH is an asshole, he didn't show me enough attention etc. What she needs to answer is HOW she let herself go there.

Everybody has life experiences that are disappointments. What differentiates us is how we deal with those experiences - our coping mechanisms/boundaries.

You said it yourself, you were lonely too... yet you did not cheat.



BH (me), 53
FWW (Her) 55
DD18, DS15
D-Day 12/23/2007
R going well

Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then --- Bob Seger


Posts: 326 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: East Coast
Topic Posts: 31
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