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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: The cost of forgiveness and staying (a different take)
ICECOLD
♀ New Member
Member # 40258
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*I know there are about a million forgiveness posts a week, but I thought this was a bit different

I found this articled linked on another infidelity forum. It is christian based, and I'm an atheist, but I identified with it anyway.

Like a lot of different buzz words on SI, forgiveness has a million different meanings to many different people, depending on your faith, philosophy, life experiences, etc

I don't believe forgiveness is necessary for reconciliation. Since I have no religion or life philosophy telling me I need to forgive, and don't logically understand the phrase "forgiveness is for you", I found out I'm more of an acceptance person, but this article expresses what I need to slog through to reach reconciliation. Its painful, sacrificial and hard.

"Forgiveness and reconciliation are expensive gifts purchased through great suffering and sacrifice on the part of the offended."

Ever associated forgiveness with a big price tag?

What is the cost of forgiveness? What does this have to do with forgiving infidelity? We’ll talk about that in a moment, but first let me tell a story. Seventeen years ago, within the first two years of marriage, Sandra had multiple affairs. Doubts of whether she’d married the right man plagued her even before the wedding. A better man than Campbell she’d never find, but the spark was missing. She feared he’d be a Steady Freddie who was dull and commonplace. His impeccable character and undying love had captured her attention, but where was that romance of man and maid she’d so longed for? Those feelings never came.

About a year into the marriage Sandra’s boss invited her to lunch. From an innocent beginning blossomed a growing conflagration of passion. He understood her womanly need of small attentions and seemed to get her in ways Campbell never imagined. Justifying her affair was all too easy. She’d never felt like this before, confirming in her mind that she’d married the wrong person, and now she’d found the love of her life. Besides this wasn’t some spur of the moment impulsive whim, they’d spent their days at work talking about music, philosophy, religion and life. Milton knew her better in a month than Campbell had in 2 years.

For the first time in her life she felt compelled to recklessly abandon herself to another. It was like nothing she’d ever experienced, until Milton’s wife discovered their affair and filed for divorce. Milton immediately resigned his job and moved his family to another state. She was shocked; they had planned their future together and now, just like that, he was gone? He even told her he wanted nothing to do with her and to quit bugging him. The pain was unbearable, and even she was surprised at her response. Rather than grieving the loss and moving on, she numbed the pain with three more short-term affairs. What was the difference; she didn’t envision Campbell as any part of her future.

However, about a month after affair number three ended, she and Campbell conceived and life suddenly changed. She loved life as a mom and admired the way Campbell stepped up and supported the family. Over time she even grew to love her life and recognized she had indeed married well.

Skip forward 17 years when Campbell received a call from Milton’s wife. “I told him if it happened again I would no longer keep his secrets, and I just discovered he’s doing it again,” she said. “I thought that you might want to know your wife isn’t who you think she is. Why don’t you ask her about Milton?” Milton’s wife was coping with infidelity in a flurry of anger.

Initially, Sandra lied. She had decided to take the secret of her infidelity to her grave, but eventually she came clean about all four affairs before their first child’s birth. She pleaded for forgiveness; after all, it was 17 years past. But for Campbell it wasn’t seventeen years ago, ground zero was just last month. Forgiving infidelity for him didn’t seem possible. Seventeen years of faithfulness did nothing to ease the pain of her betrayal. In fact, it made it worse. She had caused him to live a lie for 17 years. He no longer trusted his current reality, his past, his future, his wife or himself. How could he have been so blind? How could he just forgive and move on?

For the sake of our discussion let me point out that there are two elements to what we refer to as forgiveness. The first is an internal matter where we choose to forgive the wrong committed against us and no longer expect justice as a result of their offense. Even more, we wish them well. The second element of forgiveness is about reconciliation. It’s where we choose to continue in relationship with that person in spite of their offense. For the sake of this discussion I’m focused on the second element, reconciliation.

All too often we talk about the high price of NOT forgiving. That forgiveness is a gift you give yourself and how failing to forgive leaves you forever a victim. We extol forgiveness as a virtue and share examples of those saints who forgave much to show forgiveness as a possibility. (Even though the fact we even share such stories indicate those people may be the exception, not the rule.) But forgiveness isn’t natural, especially when it comes to forgiving infidelity. It flows against our basic human nature. For most, our initial response to coping with infidelity is justice, not forgiveness. We want restitution, not mercy. We want the scales of justice to be balanced.

An understanding of the high cost of forgiveness seems to go missing when an offense is committed. Far too often I see an entitlement mentality when it comes to receiving forgiveness from our mate or forgiveness from God. As humans we’re supposed to forgive, right? In Christendom we teach “as God forgave us so we’re to forgive.” Isn’t that the lesson we teach our children? But we forget that forgiveness comes at a price. Even the Christian tradition teaches that the price God has paid to forgive mankind’s offenses was the life of His own Son. In the same way, the price paid by the betrayed spouse, if there is to be reconciliation, is high indeed.

What was the price of forgiveness in Campbell and Sandra’s case? Campbell had been an exceptional husband and father, not perfect by any means, but he’d lived and loved well. For him, forgiveness meant violating his personal beliefs and values. He would never have chosen to be with someone who betrayed, lied, and deceived him. He believed in the sanctity of marriage, and to choose to stay with Sandra came at the price of settling for something he never wanted.

Forgiving infidelity would mean sacrificing his dreams of the type of marriage he’d wanted. He’d never have the opportunity to brag to his children about the fidelity of their marriage. To stay meant sacrificing a marriage that was free from doubts. How could he ever again believe a word that she said if she’d been able to deceive him for 17 years? Staying meant the sacrificing of his dignity. He personally knew two of these men, and he now imagined how they’d seen him as the fool. To stay he’d have to sacrifice his rights. Didn’t he have the right to leave and find another who would be faithful to him? Staying and coping with infidelity meant sacrificing the ability to be honest with family. He couldn’t share his struggles, for fear of more complications. To stay would cost him pride. He’d always believed people who stayed were too weak to leave. To stay would cost his self-respect. He couldn’t believe things he’d said and done in his fits of rage. It would be so much easier to be away from her and not be triggered by her presence. To forgive seemed to make a mockery of all he’d sacrificed for the sake of their marriage. Instead of being proud of what he and Sandra had built, he now felt he’d been played the fool and taken advantage of.

All Campbell ever wanted was to love unconditionally and to be loved by someone special, but now his heart was so full of pain and distrust he wasn’t sure whether he could give himself to Sandra or anyone else again. Could he walk through the pain of her betrayal and face the demons he’d encounter if he ever gave himself to her again? For him, choosing to stay would cost him dearly.

Grace isn’t cheap; it comes at a high price. Failure to appreciate the high price paid by those choosing to forgive minimizes the magnitude of their sacrifice. The currencies used by the betrayed spouse to pay off the debt incurred by their mate’s betrayal are pride, ego, and suffering. Forgiving infidelity costs their dignity when they choose to stay rather than leave. It costs them their just due when they choose to forgo justice for the sake of the relationship. It costs them their sanity because they don’t control the painful thoughts invading their mind. Their present-day reality is constantly interrupted with painful memories of the past. It costs them their dreams because this road isn’t one they’d ever planned on traveling. It costs them health because the pain of the offense consumes their life. And I’m only beginning to scratch the surface.

As one who believes in the value of forgiving, I never want to be guilty of cheap grace, where I think it’s something to which I’m entitled. If justice is the standard, then the consequence of betrayal is the loss of relationship. Anything short of that is mercy, indeed. Failing to consider the price paid by others for my sake causes me to be careless with my behavior. Forgiveness and reconciliation are expensive gifts purchased through great suffering and sacrifice on the part of the offended. Failure to understand that reality makes me blind to the love displayed by those who choose to continue on in relationship.

How would you describe the cost of forgiveness from your own experience?

I'm to the point where I recognize there is no winning to me. I don't want my family to be destroyed, but I struggle to find respect for myself in staying even with a remorseful spouse. This situation is lose-lose. No matter if a couple reconciles or divorces; the price paid is extremely high.


"If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit."

"If you think the grass is greener, you're welcome to take a hike"

BS:47
WS:45
Kids

R: one foot in, and one foot out


Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Atlanta GA
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grace isn’t cheap; it comes at a high price. Failure to appreciate the high price paid by those choosing to forgive minimizes the magnitude of their sacrifice. The currencies used by the betrayed spouse to pay off the debt incurred by their mate’s betrayal are pride, ego, and suffering. Forgiving infidelity costs their dignity when they choose to stay rather than leave. It costs them their just due when they choose to forgo justice for the sake of the relationship. It costs them their sanity because they don’t control the painful thoughts invading their mind. Their present-day reality is constantly interrupted with painful memories of the past. It costs them their dreams because this road isn’t one they’d ever planned on traveling. It costs them health because the pain of the offense consumes their life. And I’m only beginning to scratch the surface.

As one who believes in the value of forgiving, I never want to be guilty of cheap grace, where I think it’s something to which I’m entitled. If justice is the standard, then the consequence of betrayal is the loss of relationship. Anything short of that is mercy, indeed. Failing to consider the price paid by others for my sake causes me to be careless with my behavior. Forgiveness and reconciliation are expensive gifts purchased through great suffering and sacrifice on the part of the offended. Failure to understand that reality makes me blind to the love displayed by those who choose to continue on in relationship.

I LOVE this part of it.

I had a talk with my Mom last night - she has a hard time not being PA when she is resentful. And something is happening in her relationship with her SO that is causing a great deal of resentment. If she can't let that go, then she should leave the relationship. If the resentment is such that she feels she's sacrificing dignity and self worth . Because if you are sacrificing those things and you are staying, then you're betraying yourself. And that is impossible to overcome and live with.

[This message edited by rachelc at 3:14 PM, April 21st (Monday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4779 | Registered: Dec 2010
ICECOLD
♀ New Member
Member # 40258
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@rachelc
If the resentment is such that she feels she's sacrificing dignity and self worth . Because if you are sacrificing those things and you are staying, then you're betraying yourself. And that is impossible to overcome and live with.

but is it really impossible to work through? I guess I see others on SI so willing to R or even the ones who aren't in the beginning, and they eventually make it.

There has to be a way to work through these feelings of sacrificing dignity and self worth. I cant be the first to feel this.


"If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit."

"If you think the grass is greener, you're welcome to take a hike"

BS:47
WS:45
Kids

R: one foot in, and one foot out


Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Atlanta GA
5674emt
♀ Member
Member # 40012
What?  Posted: 4:00 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I offered forgiveness to my FWH, I did not know the cost. I, too, believe that it is the Christian thing to do and it would free me. He has received grace to continue to live in our home, stay with our children and have my devotion as a wife.
He expects it now. I am not free to discuss the A, because I have forgiven him. He does not need to continue to improve on his faithfulness and devotion, because I have forgiven him. We have discourse because he is the master of his domain and I have forgiven him.
I feel the shame of being betrayed, staying with an NPD cheater and suffering the disgrace of looking like a fool.
I do believe, someday I will look back on this and consider myself a winner for not quitting.


BS 53
WH 44
M 14 years at time of DD
2 young daughters
DD 12-8-12
OW=Xfriend
A-3 YEARS and her husband was an accomplice.
In R, IC, & MC Since 1 week after DD. On the mend with the help of God, Friends and Family.

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Central FL
lostinthesouth
♀ Member
Member # 41377
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ICECOLD
but is it really impossible to work through? I guess I see others on SI so willing to R or even the ones who aren't in the beginning, and they eventually make it.

There has to be a way to work through these feelings of sacrificing dignity and self worth. I cant be the first to feel this.

This post hit home!! I seem to be "stuck" here the last couple weeks and just can't convince myself how to move forward. I try to remind myself to have patience and let time do the work, but I don't know. I'm just so meh about it all and can't figure out this obstacle. WH A goes against everything comprehendable to me. I can't accept, forgive or anything else-I'm just blah. That's all--just blah.
Don't know what I was getting at-but I completely understand your post and was almost grateful that I'm not the only one feeling this way today.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Nov 2013
Christy516
♀ Member
Member # 42546
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder sometimes if it simply a trade. I hear and read all the stuff about it being their fault, their shame, their brokenness. My WH says this when i express feeling uncomfortable and like iI've lost my pride in front of those who know (which for us is basically everyone) It does reflect on me. Not his choices but mine after DDay. My pride and dignity demand i walk. My heart and commitment to my family demand i stay. There is no winning.


Me: 44
Him: 39
DD: 1/5/14 (the final one)
Trying to recover

Posts: 110 | Registered: Feb 2014
eachdayisvictory
♀ Member
Member # 40462
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Love this. Thanks.


me, BW: 34
FWH: 35
Dday: Feb 2013
LTA for 2+years
children: 2 boys age 3 and 6
Reconciling

Posts: 378 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nova Scotia, Canada
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My pride and dignity demand i walk. My heart and commitment to my family demand i stay. There is no winning.

This.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6359 | Registered: Jan 2011
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This situation is lose-lose. No matter if a couple reconciles or divorces; the price paid is extremely high.

I completely agree. It feels that way at 2 years out anyway

and this

My pride and dignity demand i walk. My heart and commitment to my family demand i stay. There is no winning.

Great thread! I have been stuck in this mindset lately.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Failure to appreciate the high price paid by those choosing to forgive minimizes the magnitude of their sacrifice

other than staying faithful, how can WS make sure this doesn't go unnoticed


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4779 | Registered: Dec 2010
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Failure to appreciate the high price paid by those choosing to forgive minimizes the magnitude of their sacrifice

other than staying faithful, how can WS make sure this doesn't go unnoticed

Catch-22...expecting the WS to continually express their appreciation is continuing to hold the debt and not forgive


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2560 | Registered: Aug 2012
AppalachianGal
♀ Member
Member # 31672
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is where I am today. I've said some of the same things and had some of the exact feelings of Campbell. There is no winning here.


BS (me) 41; WS, 44
DD#1- 09/07/10 secret cell found, texting ho-worker. Denies EA/PA
DD#2- 12/29/13 admitted ONS (1993) with bar slut 3 yrs into marriage
DD#3- 01/21/14 ho-worker from 2010 involved "one-time BJ."

Posts: 447 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: TN
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

expecting the WS to continually express their appreciation is continuing to hold the debt and not forgive

with forgiveness, this wouldn't be expected, but it would be nice. I've heard several here get the "I'm so glad you stuck it out with me" speech every once in a while. I'm guessing that helps?


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4779 | Registered: Dec 2010
jadedheart
♀ Member
Member # 32046
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This situation is lose-lose. No matter if a couple reconciles or divorces; the price paid is extremely high.

My pride and dignity demand i walk. My heart and commitment to my family demand i stay. There is no winning.

wow did I need to read this thread tonight. Thanks for the great post. Think I will print it out so H can read it as some point.


Me 45
FWH 47
DS11, DD18, DS21(they know nothing about A)
Married 23 years together 25
Dday 09/24/2010
"You can't control how others behave, you can only control your reaction."

Posts: 980 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Indiana
LiedtoLucy
♀ Member
Member # 39246
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great post. I find myself here as well. For me, I think that FWH's understanding of this concept would go a long way toward redemption. If there was some way for me to truly know that my FWH agrees with what this author has to say about my sacrifice in offering reconciliation and could reflect that back to me as an appreciative Husband who values me and our M while remaining faithful I would be able to forgive him without hesitation and be genuinely happy in my M.

But even though he says he understands what he did to me..there is no way that he understands what he DID to me.. I think it might be possible and I think that is the only way I can be happy with him. That is long row for a wayward to hoe IMO. But this is what I long for...the day he sits me down and says..I can not believe what I have put you through, liedtolucy, and I will spend forever showing you how much I appreciate the chance to love you like I always should have. Is this too much too ask?


LTL

Me: BS
Him: WH
OW=UW or Ugly Whore- cow of WH
UW claims to be pregnant w/ WH baby and I HATE her for it.
DDay: 4/23/13
Together: 14 years
Married: 10 years
Kids: 3 beautiful boys. Ages: 8, 4, & 19 months
Trying to R-Some days are


Posts: 173 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Southeastern U.S.
Katz13
♀ Member
Member # 41886
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for this. Our MC asks me on a weekly basis where I stand with forgiveness. The word makes me want to vomit at this point.

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

.I can not believe what I have put you through, liedtolucy, and I will spend forever showing you how much I appreciate the chance to love you like I always should have. Is this too much too ask?

It is not. At all. Hugs honey! You deserve someone who lives up to the grace of your forgiveness...,


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4779 | Registered: Dec 2010
somanyyears
♂ Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


..lots to ponder here..

But even though he says he understands what he did to me..there is no way that he understands what he DID to me..

the difference between the one who inflicts the pain and the one 'feeling' the pain.


@ Christy516.. this is quote-worthy!!!

My pride and dignity demand i walk. My heart and commitment to my family demand i stay. There is no winning.

..I sure don't feel like a winner in all of this

in any case... yes, a "VERY HIGH" price was paid by all of the players.

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4120 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
NoGoodUsername
♂ Member
Member # 40181
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

other than staying faithful, how can WS make sure this doesn't go unnoticed
rachelc

Staying faithful is just the price of admission.

That's the beginning of what you have to do as a Wayward who even wants to think about earning their 'f'. Acknowledging the cost to the Betrayed can happen in a lot of ways. For starters, do the work of figuring your problems out and fix them. Tell your partner that you can see their pain and show them how you can feel it. Be present in their hurt without pulling away. Talk about what this is costing your partner and relate to it emotionally.

Catch-22...expecting the WS to continually express their appreciation is continuing to hold the debt and not forgive
AFrayedKnot

Having the expectation of it from the Betrayed might push a Catch-22 but if the Wayward gives their continued growth, investment and support as a gift it might become something else entirely. On SI, we talk about humility sometimes. Perhaps this is a place in reconciliation for both people to have humility; to gently accept and receive gifts from each other. I don't know, just thinking out loud on this one.

I'm thinking about another part of this, too. The cost paid in dignity and self-worth by the Betrayed. I'm the Wayward, so I don't know and I'm really asking, does the price have to be all of your partner's dignity and self-worth? Does it mean that it has to be gone forever?
It seems to me that a big part of what a repentant Wayward has to do is give justice to the investment made by the Betrayed spouse. To give more than good value for what was given. I'm not talking about reconciliation as a transactional relationship, I'm talking about justice and reinvestment.

He expects it now. I am not free to discuss the A, because I have forgiven him. He does not need to continue to improve on his faithfulness and devotion, because I have forgiven him.
5674emt

Please permit me this, I don't think this is how it should work.
Receiving forgiveness is not a free pass forevermore. It is an opportunity to continue to do better and be partially unburdened of the wrongs that you have committed. It is a chance to keep doing good works with a lighter load.

My BW sent me this thread tonight and we have talked about it. This is powerful stuff and it has made me quite emotional. ICECOLD, thanks for starting this thread.

Edited for a dropped word.

[This message edited by NoGoodUsername at 8:32 PM, April 21st (Monday)]


Me: WH
Her: BW
Dday 7/11/13
"May you be protected from hearts that are not humble, tongues that are not wise and eyes that have forgotten how to cry."

Posts: 236 | Registered: Aug 2013
4everfaithful83
♀ Member
Member # 41761
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Loved this post, thank you.


Always know if the juice is worth the squeeze...

ME: 31
WBF: 27
Together 7 years
1 doggie
DDay: June 24, 2013
IN R...


Posts: 565 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
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