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User Topic: feeling like I don't even know my BH
AlwaysOnEdge
♂ New Member
Member # 42821
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Split, I have read through this thread and im so glad you are staying here. I hope it gives you heart to know that so many strangers do care about you and have been in similar situations. Just reading some threads has helped me immensely.

Sorry to bring up the A confession thing again but, as a BH, i just wanted to maybe give you a different perspective on something you said;

You said that should you confess the A then you KNOW it will result in D.

Well thats exactly where i was 4 years ago after i had found out about my WW EA. I KNEW that should anything happen again then I would leave. It wasnt just something i KNEW, it was who i was, it was part of my soul, part of my very being. There was never a question during that last four years that should my WW even THINK about doing anything then i would be gone, immediatley. I cant get accross how definate I felt about it, how so completely sure I was. Not only that but my WW KNEW exactly how i felt, she KNEW that if anything happened i would walk, no debate no discussion nothing.

Fast forward to Dec 2013 when i find out that my WW had an EA that turned into a PA, that last month I found out that she had had ANOTHER EA that she wanted to turn into a PA, and that she had also had yet another short EA that both wanted initially to turn into a PA.

I stayed.

Not because i was weak, but because i can see how much we love each other NOW, despite all our differences. And because i can also see how much in the fog she was, how her FOO issues affected her, how hard she is working to "fix" herself, and how remorseful she is.

None of this may apply in your case, im just trying to say that i dont think anyone can KNOW the outcome of the discovery from an affair.
Keep strong, you may be surprised at how much your BH may be able to help you if/when you decide/are able to be fully open with him

Good luck and ((((split)))), I truly hope you and BH find peace together


DDay 2am 04 Dec 2013
BS (Me)45
WW 46
Together 19 1/2 Years
Married 9 1/2 Years
3 Children, 22, 14, 6
In R.

Posts: 8 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: England
IWantDoOver
Member
Member # 39440
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you are involved in an invisible power struggle with your husband

Perhaps. Since no 2 married people have exactly the same perspective, there will always be issues of power and control. But I think splitintwo has a handle on that:

Sometimes it's not bout being right, it's about being heard. I needed him to hear me

Nobody wants to be "wrong" all the time.
Nobody wants to feel unheard in a M.

Sometimes I feel like I'm in an invisible power struggle with my spouse.
Sometimes I feel like I'm in an invisible power struggle with myself.
I can only imagine how much more difficult this would all be if I were also involved with an invisible power struggle with the bottle, since splitintwo is keenly aware of her alcohol issues.

It's all fine in theory...he can have his worldview, I can have mine. But when life happens & we have to bridge that disconnect, it occurs to me that there very well will be situations that we can't find that middle ground on. And when that happens, then what?

You deal with it if/when it happens. Maybe you agree to disagree. Maybe you take turns. Maybe you D. But awfulizing the future and worrying about doomsday is a terrible way to walk through everyday life.

But we both have a tendency to jump to end game, and at that point, one of us needs to back it up & walk us through the steps for how we got to that point. Odds are decent we've made a wrong assumption or two along the way, & it's good to hash it out.

I think you're jumping to end game here. Step back. Take a look at the big picture.

"feeling like I don't even know my BH."
Take some time. Get to know him. Get to know YOURSELF. But remember, in your eagerness to debate past issues you may have shut down his willingness to share the real him, the inner him, with you.

Sometimes it's not bout being right, it's about being heard. I needed him to hear me

How can you do a better job of HEARING him?


Peace

Posts: 212 | Registered: Jun 2013
steadychevy
♂ Member
Member # 42608
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was not going to get into this thread but here I am. I am a BH, splitintwo. I cheered when you came back to this post. I think it shows that even when you get some replies you disagree about you are still driven to move forward.

I am of the mindset that your BH should be provided with the truth. You have said that you want to be honest. I don't think honesty is selective - that you can be honest about some things but not others, IMO.

I knew that if my wife had an affair I would immediately divorce her. Yet here I am struggling. The worst part is the continued lies and deceit and defiance. The years of lies building up to the DDays are very difficult. IMO, it is very difficult to have a strong relationship where openess and honesty are questionable. There always seems to be a chasm that inhibits a true, loving, mature relationship. When one has secrets it affects the entire relationship. Perhaps secrets have affected your relationship so that your BH doesn't really know what he is up against except it does not seem to be very good and he doesn't really know why. I don't know your situation but it seems like a possibility to me.

I know in our relationship my wife was always distant for some reason. It did not seem to me that she was fully committed. As it turns out there are a truck load of childhood issues that were never dealt with. But I always knew there was something wrong but didn't know why. In turn I did things that helped distance my wife from me.

IMO a relationship that includes secrets of a major type will continue to have difficulties. I also think that it is disrespectful of the partner to keep them in the dark.

I hope you do not take these comments as an attack. I hope you continue to work on you. I think to work on the M honesty is required. It may be very painful. It may have a result not hoped for but I think it will be a difficult life without it. IMO


BH(me)63
WW-57
M 37 years
DDay1-09/1/13;DDay2-10/13;DDay3 12/19/13
LTA-09/02-11/02 EA;12/02-?/06 PA
OM -COW
"dates" w/3 former lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment;years of lies, denial

Posts: 74 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Alberta, Canada
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Split, you are not getting the *wrath* of BS's in this thread. We are not being hyper emotional and unreasonably angry at you. We are giving you our perspective, quite rationally and under control (if we don't, the mods will ban us).

Bad word choice on my part--apologies.

I know it's not the intent, but when a thread turns into what feels like a barrage of "you must confess" messages, it feels like an attack. And this is a space I want to feel safe for me to work through things, figure out what's really going on, make healthy changes for me & my M. Ultimately those changes may lead me to a path of total truth, or I may remain in the "take it to the grave" camp. Time & effort will tell.

edited to replace TT with total truth (which is what I meant)...I failed to realize TT = trickle truth. Apologies.

You (and I mean the collective you, not you personally) are preaching to the choir by framing it as selfish choice, hypocritical, immoral, unfair to BH, and on & on. I am aware. Everything about my A & other whatnot is counter to my own moral code. But my survival, my future, dictates that I make that choice right now anyway. The only way out is through. I am in awe of those of you that can, while broken, blow up everything in your world & rise from the ashes like a phoenix. I do not have that faith in my own strength, at least not at this juncture. And so I will continue, one day at a time.

[This message edited by splitintwo at 10:17 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
familyfirst
♀ Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

when a thread turns into what feels like a barrage of "you must confess" messages, it feels like an attack

Perhaps take the grave bit off your tagline would help others stay on topic?


Posts: 175 | Registered: Mar 2014
FindMyselfAgain
♀ Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((split))

Don't have the headspace myself (I've got subscriptions rather than issues too) for a real helpful reply this morning, but want to give you what encouragement I can and feel a desire to address one issue...

Warning: concerning confession, skip and come back to it later if you're not in a place you can hear it, okay?


**********
All or nothing. Either find your courage to confess all to your BH, or don't. TT is more likely to kill the relationship than having all the truth out in the open to be dealt with.
**********


That's all I need to get across to you. You are clearly a smart, brave and strong woman. Keep going, you're doing fine. What you are doing is so hard. Just want to tell you I am proud of you.

[This message edited by FindMyselfAgain at 10:11 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


DDay: October 7, 2011
R finally started in earnest: April 2014

Posts: 176 | Registered: Sep 2012
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Edited. Thanks, familyfirst. I keep messing with it. I feel like the info has to be there (now that I've added a tagline with some of my details) because it's honest. And people initially responding to my OP were talking/asking questions like I had a Dday.

Since Dday is the overarching assumption here, not owning my decision to postpone that event, perhaps indefinitely, in a public way is confusing in this forum. It does color everything I say, especially when I engage in a space where 100% honesty is expected by many as a matter of course. It's like a microcosm of the honesty so many have articulated re: restoring in my M. The prevailing belief is that you should have that info so that you can make your judgements with all the facts. So, I'm starting with owning that decision here.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All or nothing. Either find your courage to confess all to your BH, or don't. TT is more likely to kill the relationship than having all the truth out

Ack! Sorry! My misreading of the abbreviation. I thought TT = Total Truth, not Trickle Truth! Whoops. I will edit my former post.

Yes, it will be all or nothing. Should I go with confession, it will be a total truth confession.

And thanks for the encouragement. We're all at such different places in this journey. The stories, the struggles, the highs & lows, I read on SI are invaluable.

[This message edited by splitintwo at 10:19 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You're working hard at being a better person and I am glad you continue down that path. Stick with it! Keep posting and reading and thinking. Debate it in your head. You are making progress. Sometimes we all have to take things one step at a time (and sometimes we take a step backward). As long as you are moving forward, it's still progress. Don't give up.


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 657 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi. Yet another BH here.

Not going to go to the "tell/don't tell". I found out, she didn't tell me. And now I understand her telling me instead of me finding out would have gone a long way towards R (I'm Ding right now), other than to tell you that simply form a logistical standpoint, note that you can't control what the AP or other people who may know do or say, so at some point he may find out anyway. If you're "never going to tell" because "you know what will happen" (even though you seem surprised by plenty of his reactions to other things), so better have a plan for that, or just S and get it over with.

Having put that out of the way, may I theorize that the fight over the Medical Marijuana, the fight here over whether or not to stay in SI given contrary opinions on disclosure, and the fights with your BH are the same fight. An unwillingness to go with your opinion automatically means you disengage and discard differing opinion or threaten to do so, and as much as you say you value a good debate, ignoring input or threatening to leave is not debating - it's a negotiation tactic at a used car sales lot.

It is indeed selfish to say the end justify the means, when the means must be you yourself providing the medical M relief (risking jail in the process). You could have negotiated. Why does it have to be you? Why couldn't you offer to pay for a portion of it but have your sister, a friend or other family member actually provide it - someone without a family to risk? Same end, more palatable means for the man you say is the love of your life? Whatever happened to negotiation? The lack of wanting to negotiate about it (being more in the background of the help rather than providing it yourself) makes me feel that you want to be seen as helping more than actually helping. Maybe a way to lessen guilt?

I just learned in DivorceCare class that men want Honor, Dignity and Respect in a relationship. Which of these three do you routinely provide your husband? All three are broken during an A. The last one (dare I say last two?) you seem to be breaking all the time, when you say things like "if I don't get agreement on X thing that may affect the whole family negatively (whether it's an A or violating written laws yourself or what have you), I'm going to do it anyway". And if you get arrested for it you'll lose honor, too.

During her A and while I was in the dark, stbxww used to go to the AP (who is truly a horrible person), get disappointed by the way he treated her, "come back to me", go for a little while "happy" with me and then see something in me that "disappointed her" (usually something minor but a great excuse), then go back to AP. The overall theme seemed to be her putting me in a sick dynamic, a game I didn't know I was playing, of "my way or the highway". Is there something like this going on in your relationship? And I don't mean going back to AP or anything, but the overall mechanic of "if I don't get what I want, I get disappointed and see reasons to end it or blame him or X" without telling him? I seem to have detected just that dynamic on this thread a bit, not just in the overall discussion but even with threatening to leave SI, then not really.

And to go back full circle without having intended to when I started writing this - could it be that you are fighting the disclosure fight you know you will eventually have to have by proxy by contriving debates like this with your BH? Because that would also be unfair to your BH. He's really fighting a fight he doesn't know about, because you're using a proxy topic you know you can win, but that is still "end justifying the means". Maybe if you win one of these, then you can disclose. But it's not working. And it's not going to work even if you did changed his mind to yours.

Maybe that is something you should bring to IC. Not specifically about the medical M or A, but the overall dynamic, which you seem to have displayed here with perfect strangers. Don't run away when things get tough - if it's not tough, you're not learning. When honesty and integrity are missing it gives way to all sorts of broken dynamics, and you can't provide the dignity and respect your H needs. You keep mentioning survival. Survival mode may be a good place to start fixing yourself, but until you get out of that mode you won't be able to make a lot of progress.

Good luck.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 690 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In many important ways, my SLAWH could be your male twin. I love him dearly and he is a wonderful man, so that's not meant to be insulting. Like you, though, he's an addict, and that adds SO many layers of complexity to an already difficult situation--infidelity.

Our R--if it can be termed that--does not resemble what the experts on this site, rightfully, say it should. My eyes are wide open, though, and it's in my best interests to stay with my WH until our youngest is out of high school. So as long as I'm loved and as long as he's progressing, I'm staying. He's worth the wait IF, in the end, I get his "healed" version. IF NOT, then my youngest two have had a father who is more engaged with them and who is kinder than he's been in years.

Since he's still an active addict (although the addiction has been transferred to video games and to spending money--less hurtful things to me and our M than having affairs and paying for escorts) and since he's moving so slowly, my healing has taken a back seat. THAT irks, sometimes. He told me, a month ago, that he's grieving (for his father who recently passed away); I simply mentioned that I am, too (not for his father, whom I loved, but for our M as it was pre-A). He knew what I meant. But, as unfair as it is to me, he's legitimately not able to go there until he gets his act together on the addiction front.

So I continue to work on myself BY myself. I go to IC (3 years now), I go to and participate fully in S-Anon (6 months), I read constantly, I post and absorb everything I read here, I share with my BFF, I work out regularly (alone or with my kids), and I try to include him--without nagging--in one activity a day. If things don't work out the way I want them to work out, I'll still be a stronger person and able to stand on my own.

I'm in the "he needs to know" camp, but I'm not militant about WHEN he needs that info (as long as he isn't suspecting anything right now). When my WH confessed to me, I cried out of RELIEF! I was so incredibly grateful that I wasn't paranoid. I hardly heard what he said because it felt so good for my mind to have the assurance that I wasn't "cray-cray."

What I'm saying with all this is that I "get" that sometimes our surviving infidelity takes a different path. In general, I think the path paved by this site is the right one for most people. And the wisdom of most of the posters has been absolutely invaluable to me--even when I don't feel like I can follow it at the present time. Take what you're ready to take right now, heal yourself in that particular area, keep your eyes open for more nuggets of wisdom, ask for help when you need it, for pep talks when you need them, for courage when you need it, etc. As long as you are progressing, working on your demons, becoming a better person, finding authenticity, you are becoming a safer person for your BH.


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 446 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

During her A and while I was in the dark, stbxww used to go to the AP (who is truly a horrible person), get disappointed by the way he treated her, "come back to me", go for a little while "happy" with me and then see something in me that "disappointed her" (usually something minor but a great excuse), then go back to AP. The overall theme seemed to be her putting me in a sick dynamic, a game I didn't know I was playing, of "my way or the highway". Is there something like this going on in your relationship?

No, there isn't. I didn't use my relationship with my BH to justify my A. I don't recall ever going with the "I'm unhappy at home, perhaps this will be better" philosophy. I wasn't unhappy with my BH. I was unhappy with me. My A allowed me an avenue to revel in that brokenness; in fact, our brokenness was the tie that binds when it came to my AP. I didn't have to pretend like I had my shit together (and this behavior existed in me for years before my A); I could just be broken & that was OK.

the overall mechanic of "if I don't get what I want, I get disappointed and see reasons to end it or blame him or X" without telling him? I seem to have detected just that dynamic on this thread a bit, not just in the overall discussion but even with threatening to leave SI, then not really.

That is good food for thought. I know I have a history of looking for an out when things get uncomfortable.

With SI, it's easier for me to figure out what triggered a desire to leave the group--I am actually being honest in this space. When it came out in this thread that I had no Dday, suddenly a half-dozen people fixated on that aspect. It's similar to the OP--I wasn't prepared for that. I understand it, I respect the POV, and it's not my route at the moment. The tone shift in the thread immediately got extrapolated out in my mind--I'd become "she who will not confess" and therefore any thread will become a potential space for public flogging (albeit respectful flogging) on that point. It solves nothing. And when this thread triggered a desire to hide that fact, to lie in order to stay, I couldn't have that disconnect here, too. But I can try honesty about that point & see where it gets me.

Cut & run is always my first reaction. It's a control thing, like everything where i'm concerned. But with BH, I'm not actively looking for an out. I don't try & turn every discussion into a fight.

I want to stay in my M, even when everything in me wants to blow it all to hell & go. And it's partly for reasons like this, except in my case I'm a mother:

then my youngest two have had a father who is more engaged with them

This is what I want:

As long as you are progressing, working on your demons, becoming a better person, finding authenticity, you are becoming a safer person for your BH.

And I'm determined to get there.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

im not trying to beat you over the head and i certainly dont want you to leave the forum.

statements such as ->

"his conservative worldview can be very much so in conflict with things that serve the greater good."

is more anecdotal evidence of what i mean. who determines the greater good? you do. no teamwork, no partnership, no cooperation. you decide. then since you have the point of view that you found the truth which serves the greater good it means that his point of view (which is different) conflicts with that greater good. in other words, his point of view is not only bad but actually harmful while yours is benighted, noble, and you get a pass from normal rules of behavior because its oh so altruistic.

can you really believe that that you serve the greater good, and the rest of the world (or whichever part you inhabit ... aka your marriage) has to submit to this or else they are bad and damaging the greater good.

thats an argument made by every dictator throughout history.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 528 | Registered: Jan 2014
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

can you really believe that that you serve the greater good, and the rest of the world (or whichever part you inhabit ... aka your marriage) has to submit to this or else they are bad and damaging the greater good.

Point taken.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't leave SI. You are smart enough to weed out the non-constructive responses. There are pearls in these posts.

Great advise above.

Split - I too don't always follow the typical SI advise. I am a BS but in an open M. Trust me most BS & even many WS don't understand and it can taint opinions quickly. However, I still find excellent advise on SI even though I have taken a different route.

As far as your current problem - I found this comment interesting -

Cut & run is always my first reaction. It's a control thing, like everything where i'm concerned.

Why do you feel the need to control your H's opinion on a topic? The topic you are debating with him has many people on both sides of the issue. It is not an obvious answer and arguments can be been made on both sides that carry significant weight. A need for control may be part of the why in your A - it might be a topic to explore for you. You can certainly have the opinion that you do not want to tell you BH about your A but I hope you can at least see how you are controlling what he gets to know by doing that. Why is having control over your BH important to you?


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 473 | Registered: Nov 2012
Secrets Kept
♀ Member
Member # 40630
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Splitintwo,

I followed some of your first posts but haven't had time to go back & read all of your others, but will do so. So please forgive me if I state something that has already been addressed or discussed.

From my profile & user name, you can see that I am one of the few here on SI who will also take the secret of my A to the grave with me. I can understand sometimes why this is necessary & that confessing isn't always right for everyone, even though I do agree it is for the best in most marriages & relationships.

BUT.....in order for that to be OK in any way shape or form whatsoever, you have to truly break all contact with any AP's & TRULY work on yourself & why you think it is/was OK to have an A in the first place. Otherwise, why bother!?!?! Just get a divorce & everyone can go about their merry lives, right.

IMHO, You can't keep in the A or in contact at all with AP & ever expect your marriage to have a fighting chance in hell of working. You won't be completely committed to your BH when you are still in any type of contact with your AP or thinking of them, so therefore, how can you truly put forth the effort on working on yourself, marriage & BH????

My A was the BIGGEST mistake of my life & I ended it on my own by just dropping all contact & luckily, he never bothered to see why.

My circumstances were a bit different as my BH & I were already a few months into a home separation & my BH feels we were separated at the time, so "doesn't want to know". So I basically got off the hook & we have never had a Dday either.

But the guilt, regret, self-hate, etc still haunts me today. My BH & I are fully back together after some major medical issues with him drew me back in & since that time, I swore to myself I would get IC, work on myself to make myself whole again & put forth everything I have to make my M work. And we are happier than ever, even though I have the "black cloud" hanging over my head now due to my "secrets kept"!!!

BUT......again, I broke all contact with my AP & haven't spoken to AP since the summer of 2008 & don't ever want to. Just the thought disgusts me tremendously!!! I cannot believe there was ever an attraction whatsoever. As they say, I definitely "affaired down" & do not know what the hell I was ever thinking to risk my whole world on that guy!!!!

SO....the point of my post is that if you want to take it to the grave with you, then put forth your best effort NOW to make your marriage the best it can be. Did you ever think perhaps it is problems inside yourself from the A that causes a lot of the problems?? Your BH may have issues but they can be worked out together ONLY if you cut ALL contact & put forth the huge amount of work & effort you owe to your BH, marriage & yourself.

Best of luck on everything!!! Hope my post helps in some small way to see there are some of us here on SI who will never tell either with the difference being we are totally out of our affairs & striving to rebuild what we destroyed even if it was never known by our betrayed spouses.


Marriage #1=BW-46 (now)
XWH-Deceased on his 36 bday
Divorced in 1996
Marriage #2= Married in 2003
H-44
2 kids together-DS14 & DD12
"All this time I was finding myself & I didn't know I was lost"

Posts: 208 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest USA
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"his conservative worldview can be very much so in conflict with things that serve the greater good."

Like william this quote really jumped out at me. Replace the word "conservative" with "liberal" and that would be the way a lot of conservative people judge people who think like you.

Intolerance is intolerance. Whether you happen to agree with them or not, your husband's views (as you've described them) are hardly radical. A lot of people think like him, and reasonable people sometimes disagree.

The vibe from your posts is a familiar one I've seen before. It's almost like you've somewhat dehumanized your BH, turned him into a caricature of sorts. If so, I imagine that would make it much easier to betray him. And much easier to keep him in the dark about a sad chapter in his marital history.

There's a powerful disconnect, and I'm not saying it's all on your end, but I'd be amazed if a great part of it wasn't.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 2:44 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
PMs with men only, please
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1360 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, there isn't. I didn't use my relationship with my BH to justify my A. I don't recall ever going with the "I'm unhappy at home, perhaps this will be better" philosophy.

Well, keep in mind that's what she told me while in survival mode, not necessarily what it was. A part of having an A is lying to one-self. Now she has admitted her brokenness a lot more, and admitted to many other pressures than the M (kid with A, elderly parent who is sick and lived with us, losing two parental figures within a year, CSA). Turns out now that I'm not there she's near rock bottom because she's realizing the M was the best part of her life. But of course me leaving triggered her own old abandonment issues, which she now has to resolve. The real question is exactly like the question to my stbx, what are you lying to yourself about the roots of your own behavior? BPD and vulnerable narcissism tend to be self-flagellating ("I'm broken so I revel in brokenness/I deserve this.." ) But you don't see the damage you do to others (in BPD because of the overwhelming feelings of it all, on NPD because of a general lack of empathy while having a perfectly functioning theory of mind when one chooses to use it). Some food for thought.

I am actually being honest in this space

Life is infinitely better when you can be honest in all spaces.

You say you're a mother. I'm a father (mine are 8 and 10yo). Our Ms are similar length. To me showing them an example of dignity and integrity that they will understand years from now, when they have their own relationships, was more important than saving them temporary discomfort (to the WSs this is almost never the case, and while the one traumatized the most is the BS, the ones damaged the most by an A are precisely the children, whether they find out or not - you're not saving them discomfort, you're merely relocating it in time). Regardless, having a plan for eventual disclosure is better than having a plan for putting out the fire once he finds out on his own.

What would happen if your kids' spouse did this, and you had grandkids, and you found out? What would you have them do? What would happen if you were the one who had been cheated on? Things usually change rapidly when we think about others and switch roles around like that. But why should it?

You say he's "too conservative", but from a conservative standpoint, one standard of conduct for all and adding forgiveness and repentance to the mix of truth and honesty is, in my opinion, the only way to go (btw I'm the more liberal in my couple by far, and I wasn't the one who cheated, so it's not a conservative/liberal worldview thing).

But conservatism can be and often is forgiving provided true remorse is there, and being family-centric, there would be a lot of pressure at keeping the family together, no matter what. Have you talked to a religious leader about this? Maybe pick some place you don't usually attend but have heard good things about and go speak to the pastor/priest/rabbi/imam/leader there? You may learn about love, forgiveness and understanding, not just for yourself but for the M and your H in general that you can put in practice right away? And I'm not even talking about A disclosure but for how to conduct your M in general going forward, since you say you want to stay M.

Note in my case, I'm not D'ing my wife because she had an A. I'm D'ing because she is still to this day unrepentant. She stopped NC for 72 hours before going to meet him at a hotel, which I discovered as it happened. I offered to go back to MC and she asked for S on the very next session. And though she says she's ended the A for good, she is still in electronic contact w/him. She understands all this, but it's somehow more important than her family's survival, and almost every interaction I have with her (over text mostly) becomes a "poor me" blame-fest on her part, with no true regard to my suffering save one single sentence over the last 3 months (which I still hope against hope she will build on). So she's still in what we know as the W fog. My hopes for reconciliation (there's always remarriage) one day in the future are less and less the longer she chooses to remain in that situation. So don't discount your H's love for you being larger than your behavior, especially if you really are done with it.

Thanks for listening. I really am hoping you two can get past this. I'm a sucker for R stories, because I didn't have one.

[This message edited by GotPlayed at 2:52 PM, April 23rd, 2014 (Wednesday)]


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 690 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

feeling like I don't even know my BH

Not trying to pick on you or pick a fight with you, split. But the irony of your post title, considering the circumstances, is jaw-dropping. Think maybe he would say the same thing if he had all the facts? And you feel this way over a mere political disagreement...

Just food for thought.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
PMs with men only, please
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1360 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, keep in mind that's what she told me while in survival mode, not necessarily what it was. A part of having an A is lying to one-self. Now she has admitted her brokenness a lot more, and admitted to many other pressures than the M (kid with A, elderly parent who is sick and lived with us, losing two parental figures within a year, CSA).

I'm not in denial about my issues. I'm very keenly aware of much of what has happened in my world, and I know about how it's affected me along the way. My coping techniques tend to involve a great deal of detachment--almost a clinical observation of myself. I have hope this time because I am feeling my way through this process. Going back & revisiting old wounds, owning my current self, all of that.

If you want the list, you can have it, but it doesn't change anything about the fact that I had an A. I generally dislike itemizing it, because it gets into some "oh, poor me" vibe, & it's like I said--control. I don't want those things to be what define me. I want to own my behaviors as my own, even if they're vile.

Add in some FOO issues (both childhood-divorce & sick mom- & adulthood-father's suicide, mom's young death-versions of it), CSA, rape (in college--suitemate's friend entered my room & raped me when I was passed out), abortion as a teen (paired with an abusive SO), alcoholic (which I managed to discover in my 30s after a decade+ of voluntary abstinence without even the slightest clue I was an alcoholic), PPD/long-term depression & anxiety, and now my A. Shake. And viola. My life.

I'm aware of a lot of my f*ed up thinking that all of that triggers in me. For instance, I had to retrain my brain to not go straight to "He's dead" if BH was 15 min late coming home from work & didn't call. I had to teach myself logical, rational responses to real life situations because my brain was not reacting to everyday situations in logical ways.

And depression is a horribly toxic downward spiral. PPD started it (mine are 12 & 9 now), and I never shook it, never fully understood I was in that space until, finally, I read something with a "you might be depressed if" checklist & I said, "oh, shit, that's my life." Having alcoholism surface in the midst of that depression was just a recipe for everything that could possibly go wrong going wrong. But once I read that list, I sought help, and it's been a long road back out.

And see? It sounds like an attempt to justify, to excuse. It's not. It's just part of the mix that is me.

But now that I've managed to break so epically, I have hit the point where I want to fix this. For real this time, no patchwork, no compartmentalizing, no walling off of feelings. All my old version of fixing things did was delay my break. SSRIs got my brain back to a healthy space, and for the first time in over a decade, I feel like I have a shot at this.

Today's a good example. I've sat with a sick feeling most of the day, pangs of guilt. But I haven't run from it, or hidden it, or tried to erase it with a drink or a conversation with AP (yay, me, for keeping NC instead of getting the fix). I'm learning to understand my feelings, to figure out why they're surfacing, allowing them to surface, & processing those feelings as a feelings.

I do want to talk to a priest. My understanding from others who have talked to priests is that they're in the "stop the affair, recommit to your marriage, but don't tell your partner" camp. I'll find out when I take that step. I don't believe in going to confession until I know, with certainty, that I'm done with the behavior, so I haven't yet found out that info firsthand. And while I believe that I'm done with the A, I'm still proving that to myself. So, I wait. SI was my confession before the priest confession. The priest will likely be my guide re: spousal confession.

But regardless, I never want to throw BH under the bus re: my A. He had nothing to do with it. Our relationship has nothing to do with it. I chose a husband who will enable my negative behaviors. When I withdraw into myself, he will allow it, turn a blind eye, hope one day it'll get better. I dunno...I do know we have lots of times we laugh & love & talk & listen. But he's not my place for working my way out of my head. He doesn't understand. When I told him I was depressed & starting SSRIs, he was very resistant (he's anti-meds...very boot-straps oriented in his belief system about all mental health issues), but he went along with it because I explained to him that I needed it, at least for a while. Anyway, he saw that they worked, likes this version of me better, even noted I was closer to how I acted years back. So I'm getting there. Slowly. Diligently. Finding my way back to me.

Rambling again...I do that a lot.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


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