Really, StillGoing, you think she was a complete and total crazy bitch? IDK, I don't feel that quite raises to your description of the BW. Whilst some of it may have been inconsiderate of mpb1974, I don't feel the BW really did anything so horrible.
You're probably right and I just unloaded a bunch of hyperbole.
I think my reaction comes from some of the responses in this thread. The fact is that mpb was considerate of her 'process' and she was not considerate of his.
I don't think he needs to provide her any more consideration than he has, and that his resentment of her behavior is perfectly rational given the circumstances. I really think that telling him not to blame her, to be considerate of her feelings, that his level of hurt was less so than the BW because of the situation, or even that his post on the subject is upsetting because he's not thinking about her process are incomprehensible. I am annoyed at the attitude this thread has taken in general - I can understand why the BW would do what she did, sure. Leaving it at that and offering sympathy is where this should have gone.
Obviously though, I'm not above responding from my own emotions.
Though I really think the BW has a serious issue with reality if after dday she was dumping all the problems on his WW and pretending that her WH was the bees knees (whatever the fuck those are supposed to be, I hear they're awesome in some capacity) - though that will reap its own next round of problems for her.
[This message edited by StillGoing at 9:48 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]
I remembered something else this morning that BS said in one of her voicemails that stuck with me. She told WW that her and her husband were 'trying to forget' about her. I was trying to do the same with them, but here I was receiving calls at my home from her. It just made me feel like she was suggesting that her family and feelings were paramount, were what really mattered in the situation, and that my status was incidental, perhaps not unimportant but still subject to the wrath of the BS.
09/11/1999: started dating
03/2003: moved in together
01/24/2013: found out (affair started 05/2009)
He is the one that swore a vow of loyalty to her and he is the one that ultimately allowed a stranger into her life to develop a relationship with her and her kids. The BW has every right to feel however she wants about my WW, but the person accountable to her is her husband.
I will admit, that i haven't read all the responses, but I feel the same way.
I do agree and the our MC agreed that wFH should have answered AP's BS reasonable questions for a reasonable time. If I had any questions, I had the right to ask them to AP also. I did text her once. My thoughts and feeling was why and how could I believe anything she said in the first place.
wFH and AP had worked together for 10 or so years. We ALL became friends. We had freaking went on a "family" vacation with their family the month before DD. I considered AP and her BS two of my best friends.
HOWEVER, when her BS tried to manipulate me and use ME as a pawn, all bets were off.
Knowing that AP was early on (not sure now since I haven't responded to any text from her BS since September) just trying to sweep everything under the rug. The only way that her BS was dealing with it was through my fWH just pissed me off.
The threatening emails which included the AP's BS threatening to ruin my fWH's and the life of everyone he is close to (including mine) lives gives me a bunch of resentment.
I would like to mention something that hasn't been brought up yet though. You said after DDay, she was posting of FB about how amazing her H is. It's likely, hell even probable, that she was doing this to make herself feel better and as a little F-you to yoyr WW. Whether she knew your WW was able to see the posts, or assumed word would get back to her, she wanted your WW to know she hadn't "won". After all, what people post on FB rarely reflects their real life.
One should rather die than be betrayed. There is no deceit in death. It delivers precisely what it has promised. Betrayal, though ... betrayal is the willful slaughter of hope. ~Steven Deitz
your comment about my displaced anger seems fundamentally contradictory if you are supporting the BS's actions. Would not the BS also be required to direct her anger towards her husband, whose actions, lack of compassion, and full out deceit
also caused such tremendous pain in the life of another?
No, my comment is not fundamentally contradictory. You are assuming that the other BS is limiting her anger to just your WW. I, on the other hand, never assumed that. I would imagine that her anger is directed at her WH and your WW.
The other BS is not displacing her anger. She has every right to be furious with your WW who action directly hurt her. She has every right to be angry with her WH, who slept with your wife. Clearly, her anger is directed at the people that directly hurt her.
As other have stated, people react differently to hurt, pain, trauma. She may not be behaving as you or I would/have however, she is not breaking the law.
If she ever contacts you and starts blaming you for the A then you would have reason to accuse her of having displaced anger.
[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 2:01 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]
The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.
I would imagine that her anger is directed at her WH and your WW.
That doesn't align with the situation as described.
Based on the FB post it sounds like she's in deep denial about her biggest problem - the hairy 200 lb. thing that sleeps next to her each night. Hate the AP all you want, but the world is full of potential APs. We only have one spouse.
ETA: Agree with StillGoing's post on page 3. Well said.
[This message edited by Sal1995 at 2:25 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]
'No, my comment is not fundamentally contradictory. You are assuming that the other BS is limiting her anger to just your WW. I, on the other hand, never assumed that. I would imagine that her anger is directed at her WH and your WW.'
- Yes, it is. I never assumed any such thing about BS's anger towards her WS. Based on your previous post, you established that my 'actual target' is the WW. That said, the same should apply to the BS. If that is the case, she should not be violating my privacy by leaving messages that I will be exposed to. She should be busy holding her WS accountable for something that he alone brought into her life.
'The other BS is not displacing her anger. She has every right to be furious with your WW who action directly hurt her.'
I agree, and have already said so in past posts. She does NOT have every right to trample me or my emotions in expressing her wrath for my WW by sending mail and leaving voicemails at my home.
'As other have stated, people react differently to hurt, pain, trauma. She may not be behaving as you or I would/have however, she is not breaking the law.'
That's hardly the point. She was insensitive to my privacy, for which I did not respond in kind.
'...the world is full of potential APs. We only have one spouse.'
Very well put. Our spouses are the ones that have taken a vow of loyalty. If they engage in such a thing as an A, the other person is merely a stranger in comparison.
[This message edited by mpb1974 at 2:39 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]
That doesn't align with the situation as described.
I agree, StillGoing. However, when assessing the situation I could not take what was posted on Facebook seriously. BS could very well have been using social media to paint a "fake" picture...(shocking, I know...does that REALLY happen?)
and when I read this:
I feel like the BS is the sympatheic figure with children who were inconceivably exposed to the A; my WW most likely appears as the heinously insecure home wrecker; the AP as the confused overwhelmed new parent, who was tempted by the idea of elicit sex while in a marriage otherwise devoid of it
It became apparent that mpb was clearly, and honestly stating how he feels vs factual information.
For me this did not warrant excluding the idea that the other BS could very well be venting at her WS. I am a bit biased as I cannot fathom a BS not venting at WS after such a betrayal...I guess it could happen.
Regardless of whether the other BS is directing anger at her WH or not. Her anger towards mpb's WW is not displaced anger...She is clearly directing anger at a person whose action directly hurt her.
'Regardless of whether the other BS is directing anger at her WH or not. Her anger towards mpb's WW is not displaced anger...She is clearly directing anger at a person whose action directly hurt her.'
BS's contacts directed at my home were actions that directly hurt me. So that said, my anger towards her is displaced? I am not blaming the BS for the A. I am upset with her for how she chose to respond to the A by subjecting me to her feedback. These are different concepts.
But to assume that she's hurting you simply by voicing her anger at your WW, well, don't accept that anger. Let your WW own it.
My husband slit the tires of the OM. OM then had to drive his BW's car to work for a few days. Did that impact his BW? - of course. So, who should his BW be angry with? Again, he invited the crazy into their lives...
[This message edited by rachelc at 2:47 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]
me (WW/BS): 48
4 kiddos in mid 20's
Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...
What the poster is imagining occurs in the BW's household doesn't have to align with the situation. The original poster only saw what occurred toward his wife. He does not see the pain and anguish occurring in the BW's house. What the BW posted on facebook is likely no different than what many of us do. I never posted about the pain my husband put me through because I don't want the entire world to know what we've gone through. I don't post when my kids screw up either. I keep my facebook as positive as possible because I figure if my friends want to read negative stuff, they can pick up a newspaper. A few facebook posts and a comment that "We're trying to forget about you" does not a happy marriage make nor does it give any details about what they are doing to try to forget. It's entirely possible that what is going on in their household is absolutely as hellish as what is going on in most of our homes after Dday. Just because she didn't post "My husband is a lying, cheating bastard" on facebook doesn't mean that she hasn't called him that in the privacy of their home. Assuming that everything is hunky dory and that her vitriol is only directed at the WW of the OP is faulty logic given what we've all gone through and knowing how the majority of people operate on facebook. It's not only possible but likely that their marriage is in deep trouble and that the whole family is suffering. I'd posture that RidingHealing's hypothesis aligns perfectly with the situation given the majority of posts on this website alone. Very seldom is the public picture we present representative of the private life. Assuming that the BW is fine with her husband is what doesn't align with the situation.
What the poster is imagining occurs in the BW's household doesn't have to align with the situation. The original poster only saw what occurred toward his wife.
You're coming at that in reverse. He's basing his judgement on the available data, not on what he's imagining is going through her head - the rest of this thread is doing that.
I think she has a good reason to be pissed at your H also. Frankly, I think causing property damage like that crosses a line that wasn't crossed by the BW in this thread.
I agree that he invited the crazy in but that doesn't mean she has to suck it up and accept it.
Further, does that mean mpb gets the same considerations if he decides to go take a pellet rifle to their windows when they aren't home? Should the BW just accept that her WH invited that in?
People are responsible for their actions. We can still have sympathy for their emotional state while holding them accountable.
[This message edited by StillGoing at 3:01 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]
'But she is directing her anger at the OP's WW, not him. He's just caught in the crossfire, directly as her BS.'
That's irrelevant, I was still subjected to it. BS did send nasty texts to WW's cell directly, with which I don't necessarily disagree with. But the letter and voicemails on the landline were things that BS must have known I would be subjected to.
'My husband slit the tires of the OM. OM then had to drive his BW's car to work for a few days. Did that impact his BW? - of course. So, who should his BW be angry with?'
My husband slit the tires of the OM. OM then had to drive his BW's car to work for a few days. Did that impact his BW? - of course. So, who should his BW be angry with?'
I guess we just disagree on this.
The A did not cause your husband to slash the APs tires. That is merely how he decided to express his rage. The fact that he indirectly subjected an innocent person to the effects of that rage, whether or not intentional, suggests that the other BS's state of pain was of less importance to him than exacting personal revenge. I can't get behind that concept.
Agree with this. And also with her husband and you. Maybe primarily my spouse and the AP, but the person who committed a crime against my marital property causing me hundreds of dollars in expenses (on top of all of the emotional pain I have to deal with) would also be near the top of my shit list.
If I am to be honest, I felt abandoned.
Maybe you are feeling abandoned as well as alone because of the stark differences in the way your friend, the BW, treated your WW and you and the way you treated them. I think what's missing in some of the posts is that you truly considered BW your friend. I think the 15 months has given you time to think about the way your friendship abruptly changed and in your mind became adversarial. Maybe you are thinking what a shame it all had to end this way.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm also thinking you are feeling somewhat betrayed by your friend, BW. This might not make sense to some people, but I can feel a simililarity in the same hurt feelings that I have felt, and perhaps others, who had a friend or friends who knew about the affair and never told me or exposed. I felt disrespected by them, I also felt abandoned by them, and I also felt betrayed. They never outwardly attacked me, but their inactions noneless hurt me. I know this is a TOTALLY different branch of infidelity, but I believe the feelings are similar. You feel like you lost a friend, your coupleship, on top of the devestation your WW's A created.
I chose never to speak to them or anyone about the A, most likely for some of the same reasons you chose not to. With that decision has come some feelings of isolation, but I am responsible for that choice. I did not approach OW, who was a friend, not a close one. I will never really know for sure if that was the best way or if it would have been better for my healing. I imagine you're mulling this over also.
Granted and rightly so, the BW's WH and family are number 1 and her actions must align with what she feels is best for her family. However, that does not invalidate your feelings as a result of her actions.
There's a lot of healing left for you, 15 months is really nothing in my mind. Of course your WW and you will be the main focus of your R, but there will be all the other people directly or indirectly involved that you will think of and try to make peace with yourself. No doubt, this is not a mole hill and the mountain is a steep one to climb. I hope the best for you and your WW.
*ETA: My post was late in coming, I read about the tires, pellet gun analogy, etc. I agree that we are all responsible for our actions, right or wrong. I can definitely understand the emotions involved, why someone would react a certain less than desirable way. I've been really angry too. However, what I did or do with that anger is on me.
[This message edited by mindbody at 3:23 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]
Mpb I get your point. But I can tell you the other BS's pain is the LAST thing on their mind..
Not in my case it wasn't. And, judging by how MOW's BH handled things I believe he was considering my feelings also. I think empathy for the OBS is very common.