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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Rejects my attempts at transparency.
cindergirl
♀ New Member
Member # 42966
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm really struggling with this. I keep trying to open things up to my BP to start rebuilding trust and fostering goodwill. I've offered up all my account passwords, which he repeatedly declines. I installed a tracking app on my phone and sent him a link to the app and an invitation code to track me. He said it made him feel sick and seemed genuinely upset about me doing this. (He said part of him wants it. Part of him hates it. And part of him hates himself for wanting it.) I've tried sending him pictures of where I am, which he says he doesn't need, is overkill, that he isn't that mistrustful, yet also says that I could fake pictures of where I am, or send him a picture that I'm home then go back out. I'm stumped. How do I be transparent if he systematically rejects all my attempts?

The lack of transparency is a lot of what got is into this mess in the first place. He's not only a private person, he was a highly secretive person in the beginning of our relationship. (Kept huge things from me that amounted to a monumental betrayal and made trusting him incredibly difficult.) Secrecy bred secrecy and we ended up in the mess we have now.

The main goal I've set for myself is patience. Patience, patience, patience. And that's a huge struggle. It's not so much because he's being a pain right now. It's because he's being the same. exact. withdrawn, critical, secretive, willfully obstinate pain that I was ready to walk away from when all of this happened in the first place. (For those of you unfamiliar with my story--drunken ONS I barely remember that happened when my BP went AWOL, turned off his phone for days, and stood me up for a date.)

I'm feeling super freaking frustrated today. I'm in love with an addict (sure he's sober right now, but hasn't dealt with all the issues, even if he claims he has. He admits he's still an addict, just that he channels it into "healthier addictions".) Today I'm wondering why I'm bothering trying to fix this, encountering resistance at ev.er.y. step. I have heaps of problems, yeah, no doubt, but I'm confronting mine.

/end rant


The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. -Joseph Campbell

Posts: 37 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The only person that can fix an addict is the addict him/herself, and it's a long road for us. You're in for a life of hurt & frustration if BP is not willing to truly address his issues. And this disconnect will grow even more the healthier you get. That frustration, etc, will drive you crazy, as you will find yourself wanting/loving this person more than they do for themselves. Just my $0.02 from being on both sides of the "loving an addict" equation.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
Jovie
♀ Member
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's great that you are trying, but if its not something that he sees as helpful, you can't force him to accept it. I think you have to just continue living an honest lifestyle and be prepared to give him what he needs when he needs it.

As far as the addiction... ugh. I'm in love with an addict as well, and I can say that if he weren't fixing himself, I think I would be forced to leave him. It feels righteous to say this, but just because you are a wayward doesn't mean you don't deserve happiness. I can relate to having an addiction cause huge problems in the M, so I think you have to really try to assess if it is something you want to live with if he doesn't ever decide to address the real issues.

I was always afraid of leaving before but now that I'm trying to address all my issues, I'd like to think I'll be stronger on the other end of it and be able to leave if it ever comes to that again.


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 214 | Registered: Jan 2014
cindergirl
♀ New Member
Member # 42966
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your insight, ladies. It is a tough path for certain. He worked on himself and fixed a lot of major problems last year before Dday. And now he's slid backward and is as bad as he ever was, worse in some ways. I know I have a right to happiness, too. Admittedly, this is new knowledge for me. I've been in abusive relationships in one form or another most of my life. I realize now I never knew I had a right to happiness. I read Codependent No More in the fall. In that book I found literally the most powerful words I've read in my entire life. "It's okay to be happy."

Jovie, I know I can't force it on him. I'm frustrated as I don't know if it's that he sees it as simply not helpful, or some deeply held opposition to feeling like he's spying, or if it's a way of refusing to work on things. I understand the confusing plight of the BP. One minute they want to work on things and the next they don't. It seems like the more progress I feel we make, the more he pulls away. We're coming up on two weeks with having spent virtually no time together. He's committed to couples therapy and we had our first session Tuesday. But now it almost seems like he's going in viewing counseling as a way to prove to me that we can't work this out. He won't spend any time with me right now. He keeps throwing at me that he doesn't want to do this that or the other thing as "Quality Time", which is my love language. He's said those words to me more times than I can count in the past few weeks, as if my love language were some inherent flaw in who I am.

He's hostile and passive aggressive. Which I get in a BP context, except he's always been this way; it's just worse again lately. Have I been blind, refusing to see him for the verbally abusive narcissist he is? (I know you can't answer that for me. I just don't know where else to vent today and am feeling very venty.)


The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. -Joseph Campbell

Posts: 37 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, April 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand that you posted this because you are feeling frustrated and you venting. What I am seeing here, however is a lot blame shifting.

The lack of transparency is a lot of what got is into this mess in the first place.

Secrecy bred secrecy and we ended up in the mess we have now.

Whether he is secretive or not, whether he has betrayed you or not, and whether he is changing or not has nothing to do with how you behave. His secrecy does not create secrecy with you. Only you can choose that. So the mess you are in now is (meaning your affair and the aftermath) has absolutely nothing to do with him.

It's not so much because he's being a pain right now.

he's being the same. exact. withdrawn, critical, secretive, willfully obstinate pain that I was ready to walk away from

This is a contradiction. So which is it? Honestly, calling him a pain and not considering that he is in pain does not sound very remorseful.

I understand being in love with an addict. That's something we have in common. I recommend getting yourself in a program. Al-Anon helped me more than I can possibly convey. I highly recommend keeping the two issues separate. Because again, his issues and addiction have absolutely nothing to do with your ONS other than the fact that you used it to justify your actions. It ends there.

Today I'm wondering why I'm bothering trying to fix this,

Whether you decide to work on your relationship or not, you still need to work on yourself. Get on a program, work on your why's. Try to find some compassion for what your BSO might be going through. Find some empathy. Because it's quite possible that he is really struggling too. He may not feel safe letting you in right now. Therefor, he is not willing to work on all of that with you at this time. Thus the old patterns showing up.

You can't keep blaming him for your unhappiness. Eventually you need to take ownership of that yourself.


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 741 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, April 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He may be in pain right now, but you need to figure out if you want to spend the rest of your life with and addict. And one that is not working on his issues. Work on you, fix you, and figure out what you want.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5091 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, April 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

CG, are we in a relationship with the same guy?!

My BH is exactly the same. He has passwords to everything, access to all my accounts. He knows where I am at all times, I have my phone records printed and ready for him to look at. I am an open book, honest and transparent. He rejects it all, refuses to look or check up on me. Says it won't make any difference.

Like you and your BP, BH and I had our share of transparency problems at the start of our relationship, he was covering up drug use as well. I think he was well on his way to becoming an addict. It caused a lot of problems.
BH is still secrative now, he always has been. To the point where I feel I don't know him at all sometimes. Ironically, I have always been the more open and honest of the two of us (until my A obviously.)

I've come to realise that any transparency before my A, his lack of or my abundance of, counts for nothing.

Some BS' never need to check, it's not what they want to do. Just keep what you're doing, living authentically, openly and honestly. Even if your BP isn5 interested, it's still good for you.

I agree with the others about the addiction.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1258 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
cindergirl
♀ New Member
Member # 42966
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, April 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WalkinOnEggshelz, thank you for your thoughtful response.

I understand that you posted this because you are feeling frustrated and you venting. What I am seeing here, however is a lot blame shifting.
I can see the blame shifting you've pointed out. I'm trying so hard to stay away from that. I see I'm not doing as well as I hoped.
This is a contradiction. So which is it? Honestly, calling him a pain and not considering that he is in pain does not sound very remorseful.
You're right; it doesn't sound very remorseful. Admittedly, my remorse was on hiatus yesterday. He keeps insisting he's not in pain. Though, I guess I don't really believe him when he says that. I did not intend to sound contradictory. What I was trying to convey was that his negative behavior is back stronger than ever and I'm reaching the point where I'm not sure that I can handle it. Examining it honestly, the behavior is abusive. My ONS happened when I believed he was ending the relationship, and after I made the decision that I was unable to continue in a relationship with someone who was explosive and demeaning. (Yes, that sounds like blame shifting and justification. It is. And it's also true. Working on separating.) Ironically, having a ONS and pulling away from him prompted him to reexamine his behavior and change a lot of bad behavior for the better. My post was working through some of the worry of continuing along a path in which I will continue to endure verbal abuse indefinitely. It's asking myself, do I really want this relationship? Will he ever be back to the good? Or will it just be the bad forever? Typing this out, though, I am sure this is something a lot of waywards experience. And the goal is to keep sticking through it hoping the good comes back eventually, yes?
I understand being in love with an addict. That's something we have in common. I recommend getting yourself in a program. Al-Anon helped me more than I can possibly convey. I highly recommend keeping the two issues separate. Because again, his issues and addiction have absolutely nothing to do with your ONS other than the fact that you used it to justify your actions. It ends there.
I have not considered Al-Anon, but I will. I recognize where I'm struggling to keep the issues separate. He is currently sober again. He was sober when I met him and continued in sobriety until a few weeks before Dday, got sober again, and fell back off moments after discovery. I learned from my counselor that being sober doesn't mean you're healed from addiction. I had never heard of a "dry drunk" until she familiarized me with the concept. He checked himself into rehab in 2009, but after that week in the hospital, he's never attended a meeting, doesn't "believe" in the 12 steps, can't get past the 2nd step. Not really understanding the 12-step program myself, I was never concerned about this. His logic sounded reasonable to me. He was sober--that's all that mattered, right? Now, I'm not sure.
Whether you decide to work on your relationship or not, you still need to work on yourself. Get on a program, work on your why's.
I am working on myself. Sometimes, it seems like all I'm doing is working on myself. I've been in counseling through the local domestic violence shelter for two and a half years. And I'm not stopping. In all of the fallout from Dday, I have unearthed my why and am doing everything in my power to root out all of that ugliness in me. Sleeping with men I'm not even attracted to frozen in fear is hardly something I want for my life. The ensuing emotional (and sometimes physical) pain is a nightmare, not to mention the turmoil it caused my BP and the heartache of losing him.
Try to find some compassion for what your BSO might be going through. Find some empathy. Because it's quite possible that he is really struggling too. He may not feel safe letting you in right now. Therefor, he is not willing to work on all of that with you at this time. Thus the old patterns showing up.
Clearly, this is what's happening. I do feel empathy for what he's going through. What I feel is the dichotomy of the fear of never being close to anyone ever again and the inviting pull of never being close to anyone ever again. (He's never been close to anyone ever before.) I do feel genuine empathy for him, but feeling what he feels terrifies me. What I feel when I tune into him empathically isn't in the normal range of human withdrawal; it is the extreme isolation of the Narcissist, who needs no one. What I see (this isn't my empathy, it's my insight and an interpretation of his words) is him divorcing himself from the parts of him that felt close to me and opening himself up to a lifetime of "safety" in loneliness.
You can't keep blaming him for your unhappiness. Eventually you need to take ownership of that yourself.
Wise words. Thank you. And thank you for pointing out the errors in my logic.

[This message edited by cindergirl at 8:09 PM, April 26th (Saturday)]


The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. -Joseph Campbell

Posts: 37 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
cindergirl
♀ New Member
Member # 42966
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, April 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

CG, are we in a relationship with the same guy?!
BBT, maybe?! Lol. Maybe there's something to naturally secretive people objecting to what they view as an invasion of someone else's privacy.
To the point where I feel I don't know him at all sometimes.
God, I can relate to that.
I've come to realise that any transparency before my A, his lack of or my abundance of, counts for nothing.
Noted. His secrecy wasn't about addiction. It was about his relationships with other women. (It's a very complicated, long story.) But yeah, I never got what I needed to trust. BP and I both realized after all the reading about rebuilding trust after my ONS, that he never gave me what I needed to heal and rebuild trust. (Can't count how many times he told me to "get over it".)

Although, secretiveness to the point where you feel like you don't know them is a recipe for disaster. It's that whole walls and windows thing. And how can you love someone if you don't know them? (Fortunately, mine stopped the secrecy. Even now, I don't think he's being secretive, per se. He isn't sharing much with me, but I don't think it's born out of secrecy.)

Some BS' never need to check, it's not what they want to do. Just keep what you're doing, living authentically, openly and honestly. Even if your BP isn5 interested, it's still good for you.
You're right. It's good for me. I'll keep working at honesty and transparency. :-)

Thanks for your insight.

[This message edited by cindergirl at 8:50 PM, April 26th (Saturday)]


The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. -Joseph Campbell

Posts: 37 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 2:56 AM, April 27th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

His secrecy wasn't about addiction. It was about his relationships with other women.

Yeah, same with us. Also a long story!

that he never gave me what I needed to heal and rebuild trust. (Can't count how many times he told me to "get over it".)

I can definitely relate to this. My BH rugswept everything and gaslighted me for years.

For reasons unrelated to my BH, I do not have complete trust in any man when it comes to violence. BH is the man I can trust the most not to hit me when he's angry but I cannot have absolute trust. That's not his fault, it's just the way I am. Trust but not implicitly, violence is always a possibility.

Because of my BH I do not have complete trust that he will never do drugs again. I know he believes that he will never do them again and that is very reassuring. So I trust but not completely.

Because of my BH I do not trust him with women. I won't go into details because it's too long and complicated. I trust but not completely.

Does any of this change how I feel about him or the marriage? Nope. Since going to IC and sorting put my own issues I have realised what my own deal breakers are. Having complete trust isn't one of them. If BH and I decide to R then we will need MC and I need him to hear my feelings about all that stuff, he knows that.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 2:57 AM, April 27th (Sunday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1258 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
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