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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: forever unforgiven
helplessme
♀ Member
Member # 41598
Default  Posted: 3:47 AM, April 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We're almost 9 months from D day. My BH rarely blurts it out now.. but he still does. He tells me he will remind me of my stupidity when he feels he wants. I asked him until when; he said "until the day he dies". Then he adds: what I did is unforgivable

Please somebody tell me my BH is not telling the truth. I can not take his allegation "until the day I die, too".


Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, April 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is your WH doing to heal himself? If he is working on himself, then things will probably change for him eventually, and the "until the day he dies" will pertain to the memory, not the actual verbal reminder. Also, the work you are doing will make a difference to him once he really sees it.

I would say most BS's and WS's will never forget, but it does usually lessen over time.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
sportsfan
♂ Member
Member # 9918
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, April 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your BH can’t know that he will remind you of your stupidity until the day he dies b/c he simply can’t know the future. Seems to me he’s still angry, still hurt, still lashing out when he wants to. That won’t last, at least not if you’re gonna stay together.

We’re almost 10 years out from dday and still, sometimes, I’ll bring up the A in a hurtful way. Many things have changed since then, of course life changes, but THAT hasn’t. There are still triggers. There are still reminders. But I can deflect most of them. They no longer have the same effect.

Nine months is still pretty early in the R process. He will take cheap shots at you and it will be some time before he forgives you. He’s going to have to come to terms with IT at some point b/c he will want to turn the corner … he will want joy in his life again.

Hang in there.


Posts: 1929 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From: PA
StrongerOne
♀ Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, April 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here.

Nine months isn't very far in. I would say that if it's been tailing off, then probably it will continue to do so (no guarantees -- I don't know your BH, so this is just a reasonable guess). I haven't brought it up in quite a while -- no need to, not productive for us at this point.

Forgiveness: Even if he stops mentioning your A, he may not forgive you. I don't forgive my H for his A. I understand why he did it and how he let himself slide into, I accept it -- but I don't forgive it. Partly because of the pain it caused me, but more because of the pain it caused our DS and the risk of divorce it put our DS at. (I would be just fine being D. It would be hard on our DS.)

I don't think your BS has to forgive you in order for him to heal and to reconcile with you. It may be painful to you to know he doesn't forgive you -- but that may be a consequence of the A.

[This message edited by StrongerOne at 9:23 AM, April 28th (Monday)]


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 841 | Registered: Sep 2012
JustForgave
♀ Member
Member # 36038
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, April 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another BS here.

Nobody here can speak for your BH, but I can tell you what's happening with me. We are two years out from Dday #1, and one year out from Dday #2. I, like StrongerOne, understand why he did it and how he got there, and I can get through each day without completely falling apart.

However, I still think about it daily and am triggered by so many things. It is by no means over for me, the way it is for him, and I can tell you without reservation that I will never forget--I will probably think about it on my deathbed. And, at least the way I feel today, I doubt I will ever forgive, either. This is not a forgivable sin in my book.

On the flip side, though--will I continue to love him? Yes. Will I work with him to build a better marriage than we had before? Yes. Will I spend the rest of my life making him feel shitty for what he did? No. It slowly heals. The scar remains, but I can live with it.

Give him time. LOTS of it. Please don't ask for deadlines. Our MC said there should be a statute of limitations on how long I continue to need to talk about affair subjects. I told her that there is a statute of limitations: it's until I'm no longer in pain.

What all this means is that right now you're still very much in the beginning of the recovery journey. Buckle in if you intend to stay, and grow a very thick skin. It can be very rewarding, but it's going to hurt, I'm not going to lie.

Good luck to you both!

[This message edited by JustForgave at 10:04 AM, April 28th (Monday)]


Me: 47
FWH: 39 (SI username: Bumbling)
DD: 10

DDay #1: June 9, 2012
Dday #2 (TT): November 29, 2012
DDay #3 (The BIG one, ALL the TT): March 30, 2013
False R: June 12, 2012 - March 21, 2013
REAL R: March 21, 2013 - present


Posts: 278 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Texas
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, April 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forever is a long time. You are at 9 months and probably smack dab in the middle or at the beginning of the anger phase.

I can tell you one thing without knowing your H is that he says these things to try and alleviate what he is feeling. He hasn't learned any other way. He needs to see that expressions of remorse and humility from you are much more effective at feeling better about things. He probably can't communicate it in without the anger being there, yet. It is something that has to learned.

Empathy from you is what is going to help this decline over time. While no one can ever really understand what another person goes through it doesn't meant there isn't validity in trying.

Like others have said, the pain, anger and bitterness get to be too much to constantly churn up everyday. It is exhausting and gradually becomes a hindrance to the BS enjoying their life. At the end of the day the BS just really wants to be happy too, but can't see how. I would bet money he doesn't like feeling like this either.

Without IC I probably would not have made the strides I did. Working on realizing that things happen, but I can't any longer place so much of my happiness on someone else that they can take it away like that. Learning to be happy with yourself galvanizes you against this type of hurt in the future. For example if my W cheated again, I would D. Sure it would be sad, and would take some time for me and my kids to adjust, but I am confident the betrayal wouldn't hurt as much. I would also leave the M knowing I did everything I could and that I had no regrets.

I had to realize that while my W did not always show it, she hurt too. Understanding that was key for me. It wasn't the same as what I had to deal with, but it was there.

I think helping him understand your own internal struggles (not just once, but over time) could help him see that and maybe gain some compassion along with it..

Human nature is about balance and if it appears like you are moving on unscathed he is going to try and rectify that. Being angry, going out of his way to make you feel bad, etc.

Feeling bad and remorse are mutually exclusive. One does not need to be there for the other to exist.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2541 | Registered: May 2010
Bigger
♂ Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, April 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All the above posts are correct…
If this was a semi- to normal recovery then 9 months is really early in. If you two had been doing MC and IC then I would worry if he still says he won’t forgive rather than he isn’t sure how he will or whether he ever can forgive.

HOWEVER…
This isn’t a semi- to normal recovery is it?
Does your husband still pack his bags and leave for the weekends? To the place he won’t tell you about to do the things he won’t share with you?
Does he still call you names?
Does he still ignore his children from Friday to Monday?
Has he done anything recently to deal with why he had his affair?

Go back to your last thread on him leaving.
Read what HUFI told you.

I want to add this to HUFI’s advice:
Your affair does not allow your husband to dish out a sentence of life with no time off for good behavior. Yes – he is entitled to be angry for a reasonable time. Yes – we might make concessions for destructive marital behavior for some time… But his actions IMHO exceed that. He isn’t offering you a marriage.

You really need to find the strength to break out of this. To demand change. To ask he walks beside you on the extremely tough path out of infidelity. You also need to find the strength to take that walk alone if he chooses to remain where he is.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5485 | Registered: Sep 2005
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, April 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The other members have done a good job of assessing where your BH may be in all of this.

I want to touch briefly upon the fact that there comes a point where we need to learn forgiveness for ourselves.

Forgiveness doesn't mean that it never happened, or that you are done with feeling remorse. It means that you understand the gravity of what you have done and know that you mean never to do it again. We are all in need of forgiveness at some point. We can only hope that the people who love us find the grace to give it, and that we make ourselves as worthy of it as possible.

Your BH may look at this differently in a year or two. The only thing you have control over right now is you. He is going to allege things because he is hurting. You need to separate that out from how YOU look at you in terms of when forgiveness is an option.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16420 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
helplessme
♀ Member
Member # 41598
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BIG thanks to all you guys who sent some encouragement

Bigger,

Does your husband still pack his bags and leave for the weekends? To the place he won’t tell you about to do the things he won’t share with you?
Does he still call you names?
Does he still ignore his children from Friday to Monday?
Has he done anything recently to deal with why he had his affair?

My BH started staying home on weekends almost 2 months now. But if he does go somewhere, if he has a business trip or what not, he still does not give me details. I want to understand this because as I have shared before, my A happened when he was "out of town". It is a major trigger for him now whenever he goes away from home

He has not "forgotten" his kids on weekdays even before. He gives them attention and provides for them very well.

As for his A's (long time ago) I don't think he has ever dealt with them (as far as I've observed)

Thank you Bigger for reminding me of Hufi's thoughts. Those words of wisdom are very precious and so are your views.

I know I have a long journey to go, and I am believing that we are on our way to R. I just pray that I am able to hold on strong amidst the odds.

I am glad SI is around to give me support. Thank you, thank you!


Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
krsplat
♀ Member
Member # 43242
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t/j

Your affair does not allow your husband to dish out a sentence of life with no time off for good behavior.

I have told my WH unequivocally that if he ever betrays me again, electronically or IRL, I am done with our marriage and will have no hesitation ending it. I'm being careful about not hurling recriminations, but no amount of "good behavior" on his is ever going to make forget what he did or lower my standard. He describes that as being on parole for the rest of his life. Does my boundary setting fall into the category above?

end t/j, and sorry!


Me & WH: 48, married 22 years, 4 kids
DDay: 3/5/14, 7 yr LTA plus multiple ONS
Status: Separated. I need a break from this shit.

Posts: 272 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Virginia
islesguy
♂ Member
Member # 38090
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My BS has told me very sternly and very often that I will never ever be forgiven and also that I will never ever be trusted again and I believe her.


Me: WH
Father of 3 beautiful girls

* I am a RS (Recovering Scumbag)
* Do as I say, NOT as I did. :-(
* I acknowledge the grace I have received. I know do not deserve it.


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jan 2013
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My BS has told me very sternly and very often that I will never ever be forgiven and also that I will never ever be trusted again
That's unfortunate. For her...


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Bigger
♂ Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don‘t want this thread to depart from helplessme situation so I won’t answer specific questions non-relevant to her. I will however say that IMHO the goal isn’t “surviving” infidelity in the sense that we learn how to live with infidelity and it’s consequences but rather that we SURPASS infidelity. I think BOTH the BS and the WS are selling themselves short if they intend to settle on not trying to reach “the perfect marriage”.

Helplessme,

All my statements about your husband are derived directly from your threads about your husband disappearing for the weekends.

Are you two in any sort of counseling?
Is he willing to go to MC?
Are you two doing anything in an organized manner to process the infidelities that have been in your marriage?
How are you communications? It sounds as if (again… based on your older posts…) he isn’t open to communicate.

If you ever dropped in on my usual posting-grounds (JFO) you will see I tend to be rather direct. My advice is based on moving out of infidelity and that it requires IMMENSE work both from the BS and the WS. In JFO it tends to be the BS trying to move the WS out of infidelity but the same applies if the BS stays in infidelity while the WS wants to move out. I am worried that maybe you want to move out of infidelity but your husband isn’t willing, is moving in the wrong direction or doesn’t know how or where to move.
When I talk about infidelity I am not only talking about the act itself. It’s the underlying issues, the buildup, the act, the consequences and the processing of it. It’s a very long process with numerous milestones along the way.

I think you need to find a way to make your husband want to go on that process. To walk that path with you. His statement about never forgiving you should progress into wanting to forgive you but not knowing how and then later into forgiving you but you both accepting that neither of you will ever forget the affair.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5485 | Registered: Sep 2005
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will however say that IMHO the goal isn’t “surviving” infidelity in the sense that we learn how to live with infidelity and it’s consequences but rather that we SURPASS infidelity. I think BOTH the BS and the WS are selling themselves short if they intend to settle on not trying to reach “the perfect marriage”

This is really good.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4513 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
krsplat
♀ Member
Member # 43242
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, May 2nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you need to find a way to make your husband want to go on that process. To walk that path with you. His statement about never forgiving you should progress into wanting to forgive you but not knowing how and then later into forgiving you but you both accepting that neither of you will ever forget the affair.

So is this.


Me & WH: 48, married 22 years, 4 kids
DDay: 3/5/14, 7 yr LTA plus multiple ONS
Status: Separated. I need a break from this shit.

Posts: 272 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Virginia
IntoTheLight
♀ Member
Member # 42957
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, May 2nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a WW and only 2 months out, so what do I know. But I will tell you there is no way in HELL I would live like this forever. BH and I have decided that if he can't forgive me in the next couple of years, we will end the marriage. For both of us and for our children. I screwed up big time, I confessed, I am remorseful, in counseling, and doing everything I can to heal BH. But I am not going to serve a life sentence in a marriage that was bad before the affair even started. And I certainly will not let my children grow up in a home with parents who can't stand each other. I'd rather die alone. I would rather BH leave me and find someone who makes him happy.

I do not agree with the "you don't have to forgive" to reconcile garbage. It's the worst piece of advice I've seen on this message board and I see it all the time. I see it posted by people who are Christians, which baffles me. Forgiveness is for the offended. I feel sorry for people who are held hostage by unforgiveness. I offer this up as a woman who was physically/verbally abused by one parent and abandoned by another. I was free when I finally forgave them- 20 years later. And guess what else? You can forgive someone who isn't sorry. They never once apologized, but I forgave them anyway. For ME. It's liberating and I wish I had done it sooner. But good luck to those trying to reconcile without forgiveness. Let us know how that works out for you.


WW-Me
BS-Him
Reconciling after confessing LTA

Posts: 59 | Registered: Mar 2014
helplessme
♀ Member
Member # 41598
Default  Posted: 3:59 AM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you guys for your responses

Thank you Bigger to answer your question:

My BH is still uncooperative in terms of open communication. Whenever I attempt to open up for us to discuss things, he would get angry and show displeasure. It sorts of remind him of my A and what I did.

Thus, I just retreat and forget the whole thing. To be honest, I feel so scared at those times. It gives me shivers. I do not know why I feel so afraid of him, his rants, his lashing out

When I go to bed, there are times I remember how I was verbally abused; emotionally battered. I don't know.. I am not trying to justify why I did my A. Is it because I felt very insecured? I don't know...

Also, as I have mentioned in my earlier posts, we are not on IC or MC

Right now really, I dont think he is willing to walk the same path I would like us both to take.


Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Helplessme
Sweetie Why do you feel your BS is allowed to have a separate life from you? You realize he is manipulating you.
He gets angry mad if you question him about his actions? He immediately throws your A into the convo?
Wow. I dont care if you are the wayward or the betrayed everyone should be treated like a partner in the marriage respect, love, kindness, transparency, etc. Etc.
I am sorry I hope you demand better for yourself.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3185 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Took me 9 years to forgive her. And I told her I'd never do it. After we "survived" she asked for forgiveness again. I then worked on my hurt and managed to do it. So there's that.

Maybe it's just too early.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1186 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

helplessme, you've received some very valuable advice. I really hesitate to try to add anything to the convo, but....

Something is not right here.

Whenever I attempt to open up for us to discuss things, he would get angry and show displeasure

Why? To deflect? To hurt? I am a BH, I get the hurt, but I don't understand where he is coming from, especially given his history. Yes I know we all deal with things differently, but....

To be honest, I feel so scared at those times. It gives me shivers. I do not know why I feel so afraid of him, his rants, his lashing out

I remember how I was verbally abused; emotionally battered

Those are very emotionally charged terms. Taking them at face value, I would recommend you seek IC immediately. Lay out your situation to them, let them give you a definition of abuse.

Anger and lashing out are common in the betrayed. Extending that behavior into abuse is not.

IMO


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2551 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Topic Posts: 20

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