Red Sox is right re the guilt thing and consistency.
Please don't let on to her about reading her texts, you may need to use these down the road for you and your boys good, depending on how things go.
I really don't get what she "wants to have put like adults" she's certainly not behaving like an adult, nor treating you like one, and the only thing that needs to be done here is for her to bin the twat OM and get on with sorting herself and your M out, I think she's doing this to keep you on the hook and continue to cake eat, as she knows you want to talk, and she's simply doing this for her self and selfish wants. She still doesn't get it.
I must say, thinking about your sitch, that of the OM decides he's not waiting around anymore for her and "pulls out" and says he's no longer willing to wait for her to move out of the marital home, that she would then go to him - kind of like making her want what she can't have so to speak, cps he's removed himself from the equation. You could make this move to- by saying you're no longer willing to be kept on the hook, and actually actioning it, and perhaps if you were to remove yourself from the triangle, then that may prompt her to pull her head out of her backside, knowing you're no longer willing to be pissed around, basically what others here have been telling you all along. However, concrete actions would need to be shown from her end, not just more bolloks from her mouth. At the moment she has you just where she wants you-going nowhere. I feel she's getting something put of the drama of having two males "fighting over her. You're the man here saveus, not that scum sucking mollusk OM.
Do not for one nano second buy into her victim mentality and that she is the victim, she is indeed the perpetrator here, as is the OM, it seems to me that she believes still that ots you that should be wooing her back. Do not buy into her excuses. Hold your ground and stay string like you have been, I've noticed in your posts that when you have been former, she seems to take a little more interest, I feel and say this gently that you must be form and take as and and action here. Show her some consequences. 3 is not a marriage that a number makes.
Thinking of you loads
Stand up for yourself
And your son
Show her you mean business
Right now though, I have no desire whatsoever to talk tonight.
I don't buy into her victim mentality one bit, don't worry about that. And I think there is something in what you say about removing a choice and that suddenly becoming very attractive. But I refuse to file for D as a 'play' (I know you're not saying that) - if or when I do it'll be because I've reached the end of the line and I'm prepared to see D through to the bitter end.
P.S. We are likely to cross paths with the OM again this afternoon. This is a second club our kids go to. My wife takes our DS after school and I meet them there after work. I know this cannot go on - I am hardly happy about it, hence why I brought it up with the solicitor yesterday. I've just received her notes on our meeting, in which she addresses this. I'll see if I want to post it later (slightly concerned my WW could be reading this).
I feel I have played right into her hands. She's now the victim, the aggrieved party. Being the kind of guy (doormat, if you prefer) I am, I apologised for some of the things I said. But of course, my WW still cannot accept that I am prone to mood swings right now, nor that maybe I've got a right to be.
Yes, you have played into her hands. (Said matter-of-factly, not sarcastically).
I got the same thing: I subserviently expressed my love while she was continuing her affair, she rejected me, I got angry, she used it as justification to continue her affair. The word she liked to describe my behavior was "erratic."
And yeah, she also said to me sweetly, "If I didn't love you I would not be here with you."
Saveus, there is NO winning. You are in Crazy Land. Up is down, black is white. She is having an affair and emotionally abusing you beCAUSE of you. It's your fault. Crazy, huh?
You "fell off the wagon." It's ok. You're human. Now get back on and get away from her. She is a carbon-copy of so many adulterers. Every line, every word. Take control of the situation.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
I also agree that you should not tell your WW about seeing and reading her texts. Keep your ammunition dry.
She will continue to keep you both dangling until something happens and she has to make a choice. I do think she gets a thrill from having both of you waiting on her decision. I don’t think she will make a choice, it will be you or OM who forces her to choose by saying “enough, I’m out of here” – stand mean it. Read Abandondad’s post again about keeping his WW informed of his moves – tell your WW nothing until you have filed.
Move out of the bedroom. Sleep on the sofa or on a put-you-up. Do not allow the temptation to try it on with your WW by sleeping in the same bed. As long as you are sleeping together, she will think you are going to put up with her relationship with OM. And no, she doesn’t understand your desire for sex with her. May I suggest that this is a need to “reclaim” her, for her to have intimacy with you on a physical and emotional level in the hope that she suddenly realises how much you love her, how much she loves you and that she wants the marriage, not OM. It won't work. She's rejected you.
Please take this step by step.
Move out of the bedroom.
Separate your finances (see my previous posts)
Set up another meeting with your lawyer
Start divorce proceedings.
This does not mean you WILL be divorced, it means you are assuming she doesn’t want a monogamous marriage. The longer you leave it, the worse it will be. YOU will end up being the one treating HER badly. The longer you leave it, the more you will be seen as complicit in the arrangement in the eyes of the judge.
I could have divorced Mr UKg on the grounds of adultery. I had six months in which to file before those grounds were taken away. I could have filed under unreasonable behaviour due to his “continued pattern of behaviour”, but I found I was probably going to get a lot less than if I had filed within those 6mths.
What I’m trying to say is this: Be slow if you want, but take those steps as if you are going to be divorced. Don’t wait too long. Time will run on and you will NOT be seen as the “good guy” who did everything with such patience to try and get his WW back into the marriage. Am I right in that she won’t even go to MC? She isn’t going to do anything until you do something. Knock her off the fence. If she goes to OM, then you’ll know she was gone anyway. Isn’t it better sooner rather than later?
Just a question - why are you going to meet your WW and your son at a club where you are likely to encounter OM? Why not just go home?
[This message edited by UKgirl at 8:03 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]
Now your wife has got apologizing to her. This is going to go round and round and round.
Was it you or your wife that stated you would have it out tonight once and for all?
Do more listening than talking. In fact, dont talk at all. You can learn a lot by listening.
And you can tip your entire hand by talking.
She is most likely going to get you to say things you dont want to reveal or say.
You wife said that any intimacy makes her feel guilty about what she has done and that is why she cannot be close with you....sorry, that is a lie.
If she actually felt guilty, she would not keep doing it. If she really felt guilty, I do believe she would also feel sorry for you and want to be close.
I see you not making a move, or demanding the love, respect, and honor you deserve out of fear of losing her. Your heart and brain have some catching up to. YOU have already lost her, she is just using you at this point.
I nice warm home, provided for her. Of course she is going to keep you hanging as long as possible. She is already gone. She is just abusing you at this point.
I'm sorry that she is guilting you into feeling bad for calling her names that most likely are truthful and suitable given the current state of affairs. Name calling and arguing doesn't get you anywhere, as you now see. She wants to hash this out as adults tonight, fine.
Go in with your list of what is required from you to even consider R'ing. Be clear on the consequences of those actions. Check the emotions at the door if at all possible. Speak from a calm and pulled together approach. This always helps way more than tears, and anger. I think it's frightening for the WS to realize that you can go on and be strong, and happy and don't need to tolerate their bullshit.
Honestly I wouldn't tell her if she goes your done. I would let her go, and then let her know that she is no longer welcome in your bedroom, and home. Let her go to him, you know they are sneaking around already, what's one more night....Then move all of her stuff out of your bedroom, add a lock to that door. When she comes home she will be very surprised, and you will have taken the control back.
Here is what I experienced - if you haven't already read it. You will see similarities.
I exposed my wife's affair in February. I agreed to spend some time at my Dad's house to give her some space to think about what she wants. At this point she was sitting on the fence and I was willing to let her do it because I did not know she was already gone and I despreately wanted to keep my wife. I gave her the space she asked for and if I made contact with her she shot me down and said I was lobbying her. I gave her more space. This went on for 5 weeks. Each time I asked her if she had reached any decision she said that she was still weighing up her options. I was playing the 'pick me' dance for all that time.
I started to realise that she wasn't using the time to think at all. She was using it to see the OM at every opportunity. She even had him in the family home for roast dinner and sex. Whilst the kids were in the house. In my bed and on my lounge floor.
I finally wanted to confirm my suspicions and I went home one Sunday evening. He was there. He had been there all day. He walked around the house like he owned it. He had cooked in my kitchen and now he was on the sofa, in my spot, drinking my wine and watching my TV. She was sitting next to him.
I walked in and they were initially shocked but he then arrogantly said that he was not going to leave because she had invited him in. It took every ounce of strength to not kill him there and then. She hardly spoke but looked smug.
After two hours we both had to leave and she locked the door as we left. They had spent the day discussing her exit strategy and she moved out within a week - And took the children.
I can see many common elements. She wants to stay in the warm, familiar and comfy home while she plans her exit. She's probably been told not to leave the house. She's probably hoping you will leave first and 'abandon her and your child'.
Make her leave. She can always come back. Although you can't legally throw her out you can get her out. It will take her ages to sort out the legalities to get herself back in.
Get her out. Make her stay with OM. Make her stay with her parents or on a friends sofa. Nothing you do to her is worse than what she's done to you
Get her out as soon as you can. It's the best thing I ever did. The best decision I ever made. If I had left like she wanted, the OM would be living in my house by now. That's what she wants.
[This message edited by allatsea at 8:56 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]
@UKgirl: I think you're dead right about my WW not making a choice until she's forced to. As for moving out of the bedroom, yes of course I see the logic but, just like leaving the house, my attitude has been, 'why should I???'. It just feels like another victory for my WW, and me being a doormat yet again. You are probably quite right about 'reclaiming' her. I've wondered this myself. And no, she will not go to MC/IC. Under any circumstances. (This isn't news to me - she's always felt this way about any kind of counselling). As for the club this afternoon, are you seriously suggesting I just leave my WW and the OM to get on with it?? I can hear you saying, 'but they are anyway!!', but that seems just a little too like condoning it. I have to be there, as difficult as it is.
@mountainmomma: I could record things on my iPhone though I don't intend on passing within 10 feet of him.
@craig2001: I will be very careful around the OM. It won't be first time and so far I've exchanged about a dozen words with him (very unsatisfactorily from my perspective). It was my wife who suggested talking tonight but ME who said, 'what, like grown-ups this time, with complete honesty??'. I will take your advice IF there is any conversation (which I actually think unlikely, not least as we won't get in and our boy to bed until 8.30) and not say a word, just listen. Re my WW's guilt after intimacy (of which there's been none in some time, incidentally), her reasoning hasn't rung true with me either. I've felt more like she's felt like she's been betraying the OM (sick irony of ironies).
@tushnurse: I do believe I've already lost her, it's just the fact that she hasn't actually gone that's messing with my mind. And I do feel used & abused. IF we talk tonight, I will leave all emotion at the door. We have managed to talk like that a fair few times, though no progress has ever been made.
Please read and re read allatseas post
He is right
My brothers ww got him removed from the house on false dv charges and got a restraining order on him so he couldn't go near the house. She moved om in no less than 2 weeks later and they lived there for over a year and a half.
She wants what you have provided (house etc) but him in your place. She sees you as an obstacle to this ATM and, like my brother and allatseas ww could well be plotting. Don't put that past her. You know she's buying time this is because she wants to cherry pick the bits she wants for herself. For herself. Read that again. For. Herself. And only for her.
IF you "talk" tonight be very cold, quiet and as hard as it is non emotional. Focus on getting her out the house. You can do this saveus
Just lock her out
You don't have to manhandle her but I don't imagine she's barracaded herself into the house??
I could be wrong.
I mean this with the greatest respect. I know what you're going through. Obviously I do. We all do.
But (gently said) You've got to grow a pair.
Two things: legalities & the upset to my son. Not valid reasons NOT to do as you suggest?
You can be in control of how you handle it.
The legalities are well understood. She can legally get access back into the house. But she will have to take you to court to do it.
Regarding your child: yes. It's not going to be pleasant but it's going to happen at some point. Are you going to live together once she's left you for the OM? At some point mummy and daddy will not be living together. You need to prepare him for that.
He needs to know the age appropriate truth. Even if the other scenario comes true and you reconcile, he will not be scarred if mummy and daddy do not live together for a while.
My kids weren't happy when I left for 5 weeks. I couldn't stay there. They weren't happy when they moved out to live with mummy and another man. Some things we can't control.
Control what you can
[This message edited by allatsea at 9:36 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]
She wants the OM, the house, the son. She wants you to give it to her becuase she is entitled to it all.
You can go and live under a bridge, for all she cares. As long as you keep paying for the house and the child.