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User Topic: Random thoughts about my "why"
Jovie
♀ Member
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read in a thread on reconciliation that the BS will most likely never really feel satisfied with the why. I've been thinking about this so much lately that it's becoming obsessive, so I really feel I want to get it all out in one big random post.

I was excited for myself after my IC last night because we really started the conversation of digging in and it was the first time I felt my IC really understood what I was looking to get out of it. Up until now, BH (and our MC to some extent) seem to have sort of placed the why on BH's drug abuse and his withdrawal from our relationship.

So, we talked about my childhood and my parents relationship and my relationship with BH. And also how my general personality traits (low confidence, not speaking up for myself, etc) sort of contributed to it all and the origins of those traits. I really felt like we were making some progress. I'm quite certain that there was no abuse or trauma in my childhood so I'm somewhat worried about how far this will really take me, but still, it was progress.

But afterwards when I was talking to BH about it, it really doesn't seem like it makes any of it any better. When I was repeating it all back to him, it sounded to me like more excuses.

And BH's reaction... oh how I love him... He's been sticking to the why being about him. I think he was almost surprised when I told him I'm trying to dig into my why. I repeated a line from counseling where she had said something about how there are probably other couples out there where someone is a drug addict and withdrawn from the relationship and the other person has no idea, but not all people in that kind of relationship turn to cheating. That really got to him. He said he wanted to take blame. That he sees me as a "good girl" and that he tarnished me with how he treated me for so long. It seemed really hard for him to accept I am responsible for my actions. Even though we've been through this before and have said it over and over that my actions are on me and it's not his fault. I think he goes back and forth between sadness and anger and it changes how he views this part of things. But this sadness side worries me a bit.

And he's been so great in this process, the selfish part of me worries that me digging into my why is going to make him dislike me and cause him to pull away. That if I wanted to try to "get away" with this, that I could probably manipulate him into believing its his fault. That makes me so sick to type out because it's so so selfish and wrong. And I would NEVER do that. It's just something that crossed my mind.

Also, I've been thinking about whether digging into my why will ever feel "done" or if I will ever feel satisfied with it. I know it's still so early, but thinking about how long it will take to get through this is daunting. Before the A, I did have times when I felt satisfied with my life, proud of myself, and like I had my shit together. I long for that feeling and I really hope it will return someday.


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 211 | Registered: Jan 2014
sparkysable
♀ Member
Member # 3703
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what exactly is your "why"?


D-day OW#1 2/2004; R for 6 years; D-day OW#2 5/2010

Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.


Posts: 3168 | Registered: Mar 2004 | From: NY
Lucky2HaveMe
♀ Member
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the selfish part of me worries that me digging into my why is going to make him dislike me and cause him to pull away.

Have you shared this fear with him? It saddens me that he is accepting the blame for your choices. And kudos for you not slipping into that *easy out*!

Is he doing anything about his demons? If he is not, then that tells me he isn't really concerned with the fact that the reason for your betrayal needs to be addressed at everybody's level.

I don't agree that his addiction caused your A, but he needs to want to better himself, too.

Wishing you luck.


Indian wisdom says our lives are rivers. We are born somewhere small and quiet and we move toward a place we cannot see, but only imagine. From Tending Roses

Posts: 5990 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
Jovie
♀ Member
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what exactly is your "why"?

Here's what I have so far -

Some background -
BH's addiction created an enormous gap between us, physically and emotionally. He started using about 1-2 years before we were engaged and I had no idea (we were HS sweethearts so together for a long time!). I was unhappy. I made him go to MC with me (on and off for around 3 years before the A), but it didn't really provide any real changes to our relationship, and his addiction got worse and worse and our relationship crumbled.

So part of my why is that I needed attention, affection, physical satisfaction that BH wasn't able to give me.

Why didn't I tell BH what I needed or work through our problems? I had, many times, and was not getting what I thought I needed. I guess I don't have a good answer for why I didn't try harder, but I had sort of given up on him.

Why didn't I just leave him? I didn't view my parents relationship as a happy one, as my mother suffered from depression and was untreated for so long so I was accustomed to 'unhappy relationships'. I had no other examples of relationships growing up. My parents also never really let me make my own decisions growing up, so I've struggled with confidence and decision making my entire adult life. This led me to sticking around in an unhappy relationship because I couldn't decide what to do with myself. (See how this all seems like I'm blaming my parents??)

Why did I need attention, affection, external validation? This one is tough for me. It also ties in to the confidence and decision making, I believe, but low-confidence doesn't feel like a good enough answer.

Thank you for asking, it feels good to write it all out.

Is he doing anything about his demons?

He's been clean for a little over a month and seems to be committed to it!


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 211 | Registered: Jan 2014
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((((((((Jovie)))))))))))))

Your last reply makes me want to give you a huge cuddle, there is so much about your story that I relate to. All the feelings are the same.

The story is pretty similar too. Drugs are also involved with us but not to addiction point I don't think (he won't talk about it so I can't be sure.)

BH recently said to me "I knew you couldn't leave me, you had no money, two kids and no where to go. You were trapped, I knew that."

Heartbreaking stuff.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 3:29 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1158 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Congrats to your H for being clean for over a month! I'm happy for you both.

If your WHY is all about you, and nothing he does to change can have a positive effect on your decision to remain faithful, perhaps that scares him? As in, why bother improving himself or investing in the M if nothing he changes or improves can help prevent you from straying?

IDK, maybe he takes some comfort in knowing that his positive changes can influence you to want to be his partner and stay faithful ... and your new WHYs have somewhat shattered those hopes??

Just brainstorming here. Obviously no one can answer or know what's in his brain but him.

FWIW, I do think both a WS and a BS can overthink the WHY. Sometimes, it can be a singular reason. I mean, sure, if you've got stuff to own, own it. But if you were comfortable and confident with your original why, I think it's perfectly acceptable to own that as well.

Best of luck to both of you in your continued healing!


Posts: 333 | Registered: Nov 2010
Lucky2HaveMe
♀ Member
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why didn't I just leave him? I didn't view my parents relationship as a happy one, as my mother suffered from depression and was untreated for so long so I was accustomed to 'unhappy relationships'. I had no other examples of relationships growing up. My parents also never really let me make my own decisions growing up, so I've struggled with confidence and decision making my entire adult life. This led me to sticking around in an unhappy relationship because I couldn't decide what to do with myself. (See how this all seems like I'm blaming my parents??)

Are you my sister? You are describing my mother to a T! My HS BF treated me horribly, but he told me he loved me - he was the only person to ever say *I love you* - so I accepted his treatment because I was soooooo wanting to be loved.

At my bridal shower (29 years ago!) my H's grandmother asked me "Are you a Republican?!?" and my mother answered FOR me. "Of course she is!" I stayed silent - partly because politics didn't even interest me in the least - but mostly because growing up I wasn't allowed to have a feeling or opinion of my own. If we dared disagree with mother, we got it trouble, hit, yelled at, silent treatment, etc etc.

I remember he leaving nasty notes to my father on the kitchen table. I remember - even to this day - she belittles him and berates him on EVERYTHING.

So sounds like we grew up in the same kind of household, but I am a BS, not a WS. So I do think your why needs to go deeper.

My H? (not the HS bf) He grew up in a Beaver Clever family. He strayed. So although I do believe FOO issues can contribute, I don't think it's the base of the why.

Sorry for rambling. I just really want you to figure it out. And I agree with the poster that said:

If your WHY is all about you, and nothing he does to change can have a positive effect on your decision to remain faithful, perhaps that scares him? As in, why bother improving himself or investing in the M if nothing he changes or improves can help prevent you from straying?

This might be something he should look inward about - something you both might want to discuss with the help of a counselor?


Indian wisdom says our lives are rivers. We are born somewhere small and quiet and we move toward a place we cannot see, but only imagine. From Tending Roses

Posts: 5990 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
Jovie
♀ Member
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sunnyrain,

I think you nailed it about his feelings. If he takes the blame he can take control and take comfort that it won't happen again.

I struggle too with part of me blaming our M problems (which have now improved exponentially thanks to him) for the A. I'm trying to overcome it by identifying my issues, and not falling into that trap.


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 211 | Registered: Jan 2014
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I struggle too with part of me blaming our M problems (which have now improved exponentially thanks to him) for the A. I'm trying to overcome it by identifying my issues, and not falling into that trap.

I honestly don't understand why it is so taboo on this site to acknowledge that there were unmet needs in a M that allowed a WS to give themselves permission to cheat (if that is the truth).

Unmet needs in a M is a widely recognized reason by many affair experts as to why a WS would make a very poor choice to cheat.

IMHO, I'm not blaming my M or my spouse for my affair. I could have chosen a healthier, more mature way to deal with the unmet needs in my M. My A was an extremely poor choice to meet unmet needs, and I own that my decision to cheat was 100% on me. I could have chosen counseling, better communication skills, honesty with my H that I was attracted to someone else. I could have read a book, prayed, immersed myself in volunteer work.

I chose an incredibly stupid, thoughtless, selfish way to deal with my feelings towards my H and my M. I wasn't brave enough to share my disappointments in my M with my own H.

I truly believe my A was an isolated incident. I have worked hard to correct my way of thinking because it's not okay to bury feelings of dissatisfaction in a relationship. It's better to be honest with your partner. The wrong thing was in how I chose to deal with the dissatisfaction, but the dissatisfaction was a real thing which has been addressed in MC.

Personally, I don't feel the need to label myself as broken in order to heal from my A. I do not have FOO issues, addiction issues, mental issues, CSA, or self-esteem issues to further explain my horribly wrong, poor choices. And I'm scratching my head trying to understand why any of those deep-seated issues would make an affair "better," or easier to fix or heal from?

While I screwed up bigtime, I consider myself a one-time screw-up, and see no value in applying a label to myself that does not apply.

That's the long way of saying I think it's okay not to have a deeper, underlying character issue that needs dealt with or discovered. If there's truly nothing hidden there, why create a dysfunction? For some of us, there truly isn't anything deeper to uncover.

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 9:51 AM, May 1st (Thursday)]


Posts: 333 | Registered: Nov 2010
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This. 1000% this:

I honestly don't understand why it is so taboo on this site to acknowledge that there were unmet needs in a M that allowed a WS to give themselves permission to cheat (if that is the truth).

Unmet needs in a M is a widely recognized reason by many affair experts as to why a WS would make a very poor choice to cheat.

I totally acknowledge that I have "more issues than Newsweek" that factor in with me. But I read some of these threads, and I just don't understand why "unmet needs" is not understood as a reason.

Jovie's situation comes to mind. The more apt question, IMO, is why would you stay in a relationship with an addict? Having dealt with that, it's truly one of the most isolating & lonely experiences in the world, and the non-addict may as well not exist in the addict's world most of the time. Yes, an A is a very poor choice for dealing with unmet needs, but it seems like a better exercise to look at why you'd choose an A vs. leaving the relationship altogether, especially when you're in a situation where you, personally, cannot do a damn thing to change the variables at work.

[This message edited by splitintwo at 10:00 AM, May 1st (Thursday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
Jovie
♀ Member
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's the long way of saying I think it's okay not to have a deeper, underlying character issue that needs dealt with or discovered. If there's truly nothing hidden there, why create a dysfunction? For some of us, there truly isn't anything deeper to uncover.

This is comforting to me. I relate to everything you wrote. Now I question the weight I'm putting into this (which honestly I would not have explored if not for this site).

(This is me questioning myself and putting too much weight in other peoples opinions and lack of good decision making skills in play, lol.)


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 211 | Registered: Jan 2014
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I could have chosen a healthier, more mature way to deal with the unmet needs in my M. My A was an extremely poor choice to meet unmet needs, and I own that my decision to cheat was 100% on me. I could have chosen counseling, better communication skills, honesty with my H that I was attracted to someone else. I could have read a book, prayed, immersed myself in volunteer work.

t/j:
I know that in my M there were unmet needs, but that was not the problem (IMO). The thing I look at is why was cheating an option for me? As you said, there were many other options out there, including ending the M, so why did I choose an A. For me that is the big 'Why' to figure out, and fix. For me, it boils down to this: "Why did I give myself permission to cheat instead of talking about my unmet needs?"


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 723 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is comforting to me. I relate to everything you wrote. Now I question the weight I'm putting into this (which honestly I would not have explored if not for this site).

You are welcome.

Just because there might be more to some WS, or in their personal history, doesn't mean it applies to every person or every marriage.

Feel confident in speaking your own truth!


Posts: 333 | Registered: Nov 2010
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Why did I give myself permission to cheat instead of talking about my unmet needs?"

Yes, I think it's healthy and beneficial for a WS to ask themselves that question.

And again, I think it's okay for our reasons on why or how we allowed ourselves to cross that boundary to be different. We are not all the same person.

For me, I gave myself permission when I selfishly put my own needs, and the needs of my AP, above my H's needs, above my core values, above God, and above my marriage vows.

I temporarily made myself more important than anything else. I betrayed who I am at the core.


Posts: 333 | Registered: Nov 2010
floridaredman
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Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you say "unmet needs", that can carry a broad range. Unmet needs could also tie into validation. " I need this in order to feel this" If you say I cheated because of unmet needs, that puts the blame on the person not supplying the need. While you may say you are responsible for the act of cheating, you are also at the same time saying the person not supplying the need help drive you to the act.

Not true, like listed, there were many other options to choose. However, the unhealthy choice to cheat lays squarely on the WS, despite the unmet needs.
I agree that unmet needs are a marital problem and needs to be addressed,especially if a spouse is feeling unappreciated or neglected. In base form...it is still validation
People need validation. What makes it unhealthy or "broken" is when you seek to get that need (validation) met from someone outside your relationship, but most importantly....yourself.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2472 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I betrayed who I am at the core.

This right here is what it is about.

In the end, you betrayed yourself. It isn't about unmet needs in the marriage. It is about the fact that you betrayed yourself. You gave yourself permission to do something you didn't think you would. Why?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4502 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You gave yourself permission to do something you didn't think you would. Why?

If this question was for me personally, I feel I already answered to my own satisfaction: I was selfish and put myself above everything else (God, my H, my M vows).

I am at peace with my why (unmet needs), and my reason (ultimate selfishness) in how I allowed myself to break my vows, dishonor my H and M, and dishonor myself.

If you believe I need more, or that my more is not good enough, I respectively disagree. I am at peace with that decision as well.


Posts: 333 | Registered: Nov 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what happens if you have unmet needs again? Who is responsible for your unmet needs? I guess that is my question. And only you have to be at peace with your why. Not anyone else. I am just curious about these questions.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4502 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Jovie
♀ Member
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sunnyrain,

I envy your confidence in your stance! I had said this in my OP -

Before the A, I did have times when I felt satisfied with my life, proud of myself, and like I had my shit together.

Can you tell me if you've reached this point with yourself? Are you R'd with your BH? Sorry if this is stalkerish, it just gives me some hope!


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 211 | Registered: Jan 2014
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what happens if you have unmet needs again? Who is responsible for your unmet needs? I guess that is my question. And only you have to be at peace with your why. Not anyone else. I am just curious about these questions.

If I have unmet needs in the future, I'll discuss them with my H, and with my God. I'd include my therapist in that group too, but I'm no longer in therapy.

Ultimately, I am responsible in making sure my needs are met in an honest, authentic way.

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 1:17 PM, May 1st (Thursday)]


Posts: 333 | Registered: Nov 2010
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