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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: The broken agreement - here's what happened next
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As some of you may recall, I hit a rough patch a few weeks ago (Masters Sunday) when my H broke an agreement we made that he not smoke pot at our home. And not only was the agreement broken but he was going to further deceive me by not telling me. He has since told me that he had also gotten high w/o telling me even though I asked him to do so for at least one year so I know what I am dealing with. Some people have to deal with porn. For us, it’s been pot. But this isn’t really about pot. It’s about breaking an agreement and deceiving me. This to me is what Year 2 is all about. The intensity of the A pain has diminished. I do not obsess and I rarely cry. My H has been very outwardly remorseful about the A and has used words such as “repulsed” and “contaminated” with regards to the A. He is working hard is work, at home and with our kids. But. The FOO behaviour just doesn’t go away and this is where we are now.

My H gave me a letter immediately following that incident which outlined his usage of pot from 16 to present, he apologized for hurting me and he also wrote this revealing bit:

Sunday I simultaneously knew that I would be breaking my word, yet I also thought I wouldn't be hurting anyone. Part of me says "this should be OK'.
I know it's not what I agreed to and is deception because I broke my word
there. I do sometimes feel that though. 'This should be OK to do'.

As you can imagine, this was the part that grabbed my attention. I pointed out that this was the same approach he took going into the A, “I can have this and that.” Why not? No one is going to get hurt”. He seemed shocked at the parallel. I find it incredible that after one year of IC he got to this same place, very quickly, right under my nose AND he didn’t even seem to realize the mind-set was the same until I pointed it out.

Following this, I asked him to read all of your responses to my thread called, Feeling Nothing But Sad, bc I sometimes have trouble conveying verbally. By reading what you folks wrote, he could better understand that this was more about breaking trust, then pot and he read from many how damaging an act like this to trust-building. From that post, Mindset wrote: Any lie/deception after infidelity is a serious breach of trust. R is all about building trust. By breaking the boundary he was repeating WS behaviour and gambling with R.”

Incidentally he commented that SI peeps seemed to genuinely care about me and were supportive. He said, “I can tell you have been a good cyber-friend” Well you all have been great to me!

He then took the issue to IC.
First. The agreement. This one is for you brokensmile ….When we made the agreement he now admits that while he fully intended to KEEP it and was happy to make it, the truth is, he did not for one minute truly THINK what this commitment would entail. He never said to himself: So this means that if I am here alone with my buddy and LA and the kids are away, I cannot smoke here. Or, LA is at home and the boys are too but they can’t see me so why not at my house?
His IC suggested that this is why he found it so easy to break the agreement because it was somewhat imposed and he didn’t think about it vs a joint decision (no pun intended) made from the heart. Okayyyy…..Is that all? I am not sure they will ever go deeper then this.

In terms of him trying to hide/feeling entitled to cover up...he said he is nervous of my disapproval. I said, "I am going to be disappointed with you at times. You are going to be disappointed in me." There is no perfection! But isn’t disapproval better then lying?" Better then deception? He agreed. I explained that I can only commit to reacting in a way that is not hostile when you come to me...but if you deceive me well then...I am going to be angry and it could eventually cost us our marriage.

He does clearly see that the foundation (The A mind-set vs pot mind set) was the same. The severity of the act was several miles apart but the mind-set, he was comfortable with.

Also, I know I don’t owe anyone this but I want to close by saying that we have come to an agreement with smoking at the house. We BOTH agree whole-heartedly that THERE WILL BE NO SMOKING AT OUR HOME WITH THE KIDS AROUND. This was agreed upon today and he did say, "I do not want to smoke pot often. I don't seek it out. I don't own it. I have declined this past year when others are smoking it. Believe me. I am not craving pot."

We have been reading about various MC’s in the city (we live one hour from there). Our first MC was not a great fit.

ps: Sorry I bolded all this. Crazy computer!


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2441 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sounds like a very positive step forward. It also sounds like your H may have 'gotten it'. Here's hoping....

Kudos for making yourself heard.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10345 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Sisoon. If there is one thing I can't tolerate since D-day its not speaking up/being heard. I just have to learn how to do it more graciously. Guess I felt disheartened when I pointed out the mind-set connection to the A and the pot incident and he looked at me like...."Wow. Yeah!" Wish I didn't provide this light bulb moment but its done now and here's hoping he gets on top of this.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2441 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Althea
♀ Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Disappointment is a big hangup for WH too. These conflict avoidance issues are tricky because it is almost like they revert to a child-like state of failing to communicate (or even know) their needs or desires, but then resenting the fact that they aren't being met, doing something dishonest to get the need or desire met, and then covering it up because of the fear of disapproval It is crazy making.

He can break the cycle, but I agree that it is kind of like "white knuckling" it unless or until he can uncover where the cycle comes from in the first place. Did he have a highly controlling and emotionally manipulative parent? That is where is stems from in our house...


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 457 | Registered: Dec 2012
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know Althea, I would so love my H to deeply explore his FOO issues. He seems very stubborn when I go there. His Mom....good heart but at the same time do I think she is manipulative? Yes, I do. Very much so. He claims life was grand growing up. No real issues. They all fell apart when he was 21 and his Dad left Mom for OW.

They did give him and his sib GREAT amounts of freedom. Well...they called it freedom, I call it being overally permissive. So, I think he became very accustomed too, "I can do this if I want too as long as no one gets hurt." Not real mature.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2441 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
demonshide
♀ New Member
Member # 41824
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They did give him and his sib GREAT amounts of freedom. Well...they called it freedom, I call it being overally permissive. So, I think he became very accustomed too, "I can do this if I want too as long as no one gets hurt." Not real mature.

Wow, this was great. This is what I think is a big part of my WH problem. (I just discovered the secret second phone that he was using to call the OW when I thought we were in R). But in my case, it goes farther than that, not only were his parents grossly over permissive, but his friends were all good ole boys who stood by and cheered while he literally did things like outrun the cops and wreck cars, slapping him on the back and calling him a crazy f*@%er! Not only is my WH used to doing what he wanted, blind to the fact that people could and were getting hurt, he was used to being praised for it.

My fear is, can it ever be undone, can they come to their senses? I'm in the 180 right now, God help me.


Married 17 yrs, 4 children, WH has had multiply, varied affairs, I am trying to put one foot in front of the other and believe God is with me.

Posts: 40 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Texas
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just have to learn how to do it more graciously.

My bet is that the more you do it, the more you'll be heard, and the more you're heard, the more gracious you'll become.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10345 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sound advice Sisoon! Working on it.

Demonshide, see here's the thing. My H didn't do the crazy drag races or reckless behavior stuff...it was always things that was not really approved of (pot smoking) so really...."no one got hurt". But that mind-set....that is where the trouble stems from.

I wish you well with your 180.

Where is my friend brokensmile322? I wanted her to see this response as she was very curious as to why he broke the agreement.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2441 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Althea
♀ Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear your frustration, and share it. It took a year post A for WH to look at his FOO issues, and he only began because his family imploded in such a spectacular way he couldn't deny it anymore. Denial is a very strong defense mechanism.

In our case, until WH really digs and gets to the bottom of his FOO issues, we are destined to replay the same tape over and over again. I don't know how this will play out because he just started with a new therapist with the sole goal of working on this issue this week; but at the very least it will stop the tape and force him to fully understand what he is bringing to the equation.


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 457 | Registered: Dec 2012
lostmylight55
♂ Member
Member # 33517
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While the pot smoking may not be a craving on his part it is possibly a coping mechanism for something deeper.

Wish I didn't provide this light bulb moment but its done now and here's hoping he gets on top of this.

There is nothing wrong with you having to point things out to him that he is not immediately getting. It's sad that you have to but it is necessary. My BW challenged my thinking quite a bit because I was thick. I needed to have things pointed out to me and questioned. If she hadn't done that I would not be as far as I am today.

I just have to learn how to do it more graciously.

IMO, you are being gracious enough by allowing him to be there. You both need to remember that.

They did give him and his sib GREAT amounts of freedom. Well...they called it freedom, I call it being overally permissive.

If the problem was too much freedom growing up he wouldn't be such a conflict avoider as an adult. One of the realities I had to come to terms with was that my mother is an incredibly manipulative person and it rubbed off on me. I knew very well how to manipulate people, sometimes without even realizing it.

I think it is very important to dig into the FOO stuff. His IC is not doing it and he is likely staying with his IC because he's not getting challenged. At this point he is doing the stuff that is easy and enough to get by (ie. working hard at work and at home).

It's a step in the right direction that he is starting to see the WW mindset, even if you have to point it out.

It's too bad Mr. LA wouldn't read more on SI or even post once in a while.


My Boundaries are firm: Trespassers will be shot on sight.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Oct 2011
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi LA,

This seems like a great breakthrough and here's hoping that your hubby finally got it. I think it is great that you were able to connect the wayward thinking of having an A to the wayward thinking he used to justify the smoking. Brilliant really!

As for the agreement talk, it seems you made a breakthrough there as well. He at least admitted that he agreed to it, but he didn't really think about what that meant.

This is how my WH is as well. Who agrees to not smoking, but doesn't think about what that really means? My WH does this too, just change out smoking for some other dumb activity. It leaves me asking myself "Why agree to it in the first place?" In my WH's case, I really think it is his C/A and P/A behavior coming out. My WH ends up agreeing to it because I requested or demanded he agree, but he doesn't really. (Conflict avoidant) So it leaves me with the eventual reality that the agreement will be broken (passive aggressive) and I will turn into the controller and 'mother'. (Codependent)


Forgive me, but I am ticked off at my WH tonight so I am a bit cranky.

Were you satisfied with your WH's answer about his mindset at the time of the agreement? That is all that really matters.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jun 2012
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Althea, I so glad your H is going to concentrate on FOO issues now. I wish you both success.

Lostmylight, Yes. I too wish my H would post on SI. He has read most of the articles in the Healing Library. One of the reasons he didn't want too was....disapproval. I was like, "You are in the same boat as many, many others! You only get a 2x4 when its deserved!"

I appreciate your insight. This stood out for me:

If the problem was too much freedom growing up he wouldn't be such a conflict avoider as an adult.

The funny thing is that his Dad commented that he thought if perhaps he and his sister had it "harder" growing up conflict would not be so hard for them. I have to bite my tongue. It wasn't so much about not having it hard as it was about permissiveness. Shit. Look around people! His sister has made one colossal choice after another and my MIL totally enables it. Heck, I did not exactly have a difficult childhood. Dad drank until I was 9 but life for the most part was not rough. My parents kept a tight reign on me and my sister though. Many boundaries and when we crossed them we were disciplined. But again, the boundaries were so tight that what we considered "bad" was a joke to most!

Glad it wasn't such a bad thing that I provided the light-bulb moment.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2441 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey brokensmile, there you are! I was ticked at my H last night. Must be something in the air.

As for the agreement talk, it seems you made a breakthrough there as well. He at least admitted that he agreed to it, but he didn't really think about what that meant.

I know! I totally agree with this . I can only chalk it up to old habits. He said he agreed bc he really wanted too but. But. His brain didn't take it further then that. He was probably happy that I was happy and that was that. Until he was faced with a real-life moment.

I liked this too....

My WH ends up agreeing to it because I requested or demanded he agree, but he doesn't really. (Conflict avoidant) So it leaves me with the eventual reality that the agreement will be broken (passive aggressive) and I will turn into the controller and 'mother'. (Codependent)

My H does not quite understand the complexity of PA. He thinks it is more like his Mom saying, "Gee, I sure wish I could have a glass of wine...." Or my sister saying, "Don't worry everyone, I will move this table by myself!" That is his view of PA. It's so much more then that tho and its hard for me to explain. DixieD sent me a good web site on that. I will also look on Psych Today for an article. If anyone else knows of one, please do tell.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2441 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, May 4th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At this point he is doing the stuff that is easy and enough to get by (ie. working hard at work and at home).

I see what you mean by this Lostmylight...I have been waiting for this to tail off but it hasn't. He sets goals and then makes them happen. It is a far cry from what I saw in previous years - esp. during the A years when he was acting like hot shit but where were the results? I have to add, he has earned a trip for two to Europe (we leave in a few weeks) by reaching the top echelon of performers in the company. It was an incentive program. Wasn't exactly easy and required a lot of commitment on his part.

Again, I see what you mean tho (I think) - that he is perhaps doing "surface" stuff as opposed to really digging deep.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2441 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
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