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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Living in the "now" - realistic?
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, May 5th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure quite where I am going with this, but I have been wrestling with this and would like some thoughts...

I discovered in IC after D-Day that there is a word for a lot of my behaviours... co-dependency. I then read up and I can identify LOADS of co-dependency in the way that I relate to the world at large. I am working on these issues, but after at least 40 years of living like this, it's tough to change, so it's a case of 2 steps forward, one step back a lot of the time.

One of the things that our MC really drilled into me is that I can't control the future, I can't control my husband's behaviour, I kind of have to let go of the outcome and live for NOW.

I get that, I can see very clearly how I have tried to control my husband, fix his issues, control our future... it's pretty much been my full-time job for 29 years! Letting go of it is terrifying! But I am trying really hard. I have turned my focus onto dealing with my own issues and so far that has been quite successful.

I am largely okay with the idea of no longer trying to control my husband's actions and behaviour. I have told him that I am happy to remain in the marriage provided he doesn't cross the lines that have been drawn - no more affairs, no porn, no lying to me about anything ever again.

After lots of discussion, we have pretty clear ideas about how we are going to conduct our marriage from here on out and we are both comfortable with that. So that side of things, while still a work in process, is fine.

BUT I still have some difficulty with the concept of living in the present, and not looking to the future.

Having grown up in a rather scary home situation.. security is a big deal for me. I like to know where I stand with things, I like to have a clear plan for the future mapped out. The minute there are too many unknowns I get a knot in my stomach and the anxiety kicks in.

In MC our therapist explained that I need to stop with the "what if?"s and look at how things are today. Is my husband committed and being a good husband to me today? If so, then stop worrying, enjoy today. I understand what she is getting at... and I have been doing that successfully.

But somehow I want MORE. I want to look at him and know that it's okay to visualise a shared future.. that I can safely picture us retiring together oneday, that I can look forward to growing old together. Is that stupid? Is it crazy to do that with a man who has proven he can toss me and our family under the bus for nothing more than a (his words) "guaranteed fuck"...?

When he tells me he loves me and wants to be with me till the day he dies, I believe him, I believe that he genuinely means that NOW and I am happy that he feels that way. But that's not enough. I want to know that he will ALWAYS feel like that. Is that wrong?

Because I understand that I can't know for sure that he will always feel like that. I know I can't control that. Is it wrong to want to?


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 908 | Registered: Oct 2012
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, May 5th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First off no one's feelings are ever wrong. It's how you react to them that matters.

Secondly I don't think anyone ever truly lives 100% for now. Some monks spend a life time trying with various degrees of success. I think the point is the more you try to live for now the easier it gets. So, today you might struggle minute to minute, tomorrow it might be hour to hour then day to day, week to week etc.

Whether you are trying to reconcile or move on it is the same. Until you learn to look at today first you will miss out on so much joy in life. It isn't a matter of right or wrong, it's about the most productive and happy way to live your life for yourself.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

I'm going to make my last stand. This time I can't be bought. Then again on the other hand, how much have you got? - Todd Snider


Posts: 314 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, May 5th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stop living with "what if" and live "what is"

One of my favorite sayings.

Really, we all want to know how things work, what will happen...

But it isn't that way.

I cannot tell you what a relief it is to let go of that illusion. To live right now, here in my moment and to be happy with it.

I do my best today to ensure that if I am lucky enough for tomorrow I will be prepared, but know it is all out of my control.

I do the best I can, I love the people I am with, I give of myself freely and enjoy like I never have before.

Having grown up in a rather scary home situation.. security is a big deal for me. I like to know where I stand with things, I like to have a clear plan for the future mapped out. The minute there are too many unknowns I get a knot in my stomach and the anxiety kicks in.

When you believe you have your future "all mapped out" what happens when you realize it isn't what it is supposed to be? Any mapping creates an illusion, illusions are smoke and mirrors.

Face your truth and live the life you are in right now, not some picture of the life you will have tomorrow. Don't miss it. It goes fast enough as it is.

(((hugs)))


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3773 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, May 5th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But that's not enough. I want to know that he will ALWAYS feel like that. Is that wrong?

Always IS each new day.

Make the choice together each and every morning at breakfast, "Today, I choose you for the rest of my life."

Super cheezy? Maybe, but it settles my mind.


Posts: 333 | Registered: Nov 2010
mbbd
♀ Member
Member # 41828
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am intrigued by your feeling that you want him to always feel like that. What if you don't always feel like that? I think it's a good concept to think that feelings don't change but in reality, I think they are always evolving. My point is that I wish for you to worry about how you feel!

Posts: 66 | Registered: Dec 2013
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand the problem...long road together...35 years worth. I could see our life together ...not all of the details, but a future together...then boom, the A happened and now it is like walking on a very curvy road and you just can't see what is very far ahead...no matter how hard I try to plan a future, I just can't get too far. It is getting better...by better, I am pretty sure what I will be doing in a year...two years.

Try plainning 2 futures...one with him and one without...this kind of take the focus off the fact that you just aren't ready to feel safe with the idea of committing to a future with him. You CAN and do control your own future no matter what.


Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 5:06 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your responses. As always, a lot of wisdom there.

I understand that I need to try to live for now. When I get it right I am happier. It's just that old habits are hard to break.

And also, what gets me down, is that - by it's very nature - marriage implies that you should be able to rely on your partner long-term.... why else get married? Those vows, they are long-term vows. They aren't promises made "until my feelings change" they are promises made "until death do us part".

I thought that by marrying my husband we were becoming a family and families are meant to stick together through thick and thin, through the ebb and flow of feelings. It's a life-time commitment in my eyes. If I hadn't wanted a life-time commitment I would have co-habitated rather than marrying.

I thought I was buying a house, not entering into a month-by-month rental agreement. And that's what I feel like I have now... a rental agreement. I don't like it. I want to own the house!

I understand the problem...long road together...35 years worth. I could see our life together ...not all of the details, but a future together...then boom, the A happened and now it is like walking on a very curvy road and you just can't see what is very far ahead...no matter how hard I try to plan a future, I just can't get too far.

^^ this is it exactly.

I want to look to the future, plan our retirement, make a joint bucket-list, start saving for future holidays... and at the back of my mind there is something stopping me from doing those things.

I guess this living in the now thing is going to take a bit more practice for me.


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 908 | Registered: Oct 2012
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 7:03 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsaclimb,

I know I am late to this post, but just wanted to say that I understand your feelings. I.too. was codependent.

Have you read "Codependent, No More"? That book helped me.

But somehow I want MORE. I want to look at him and know that it's okay to visualise a shared future.. that I can safely picture us retiring together oneday, that I can look forward to growing old together. Is that stupid?

It isn't stupid, but it is useless. The reality is NO ONE can guarantee you that. People make vows, people break them. Does that mean you run from sharing with someone because you are afraid? No. It means you do exactly what you are doing today, living in the now. Ask yourself each day, "Is my husband doing what he should be doing TODAY so that I can trust him?" It is a choice each day.

The key to this ^^kind of mentality not scaring you is to work on YOU. Be ok with you. My codependent actions, at the core, came from the fact that I was not ok alone, I was not able to make my own happiness. I was scared of what that would look like.

I have been working on me. I am not afraid of that anymore. I make a choice to trust my husband every day, but I also know I will be ok without him. I would be sad, but I still could be happy.

^^This will be what will set you free. Start working on you, doing things independent of him.

I know it is hard, but it soooo worth it!

[This message edited by brokensmile322 at 7:05 AM, May 8th (Thursday)]


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1415 | Registered: Jun 2012
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks so much for your response brokensmile322. I can see that my feelings stem from fear of abandonment and my co-dependency. Hard habits to break. I have read Co-dependent No More (pretty much highlighted the entire book!) and have spent quite a bit of time talking about it in IC/MC.

I know I would survive if my fWH left, or if I decided to leave him. I am much stronger and more aware now than I was at the start of all of this.

It's weird, all the work I have done up until now has really "ripped the scales from my eyes". I can see me, my fWH and our marriage so much more clearly. The issues we have are so obvious, they're so clear to me now, that I wonder how the heck I didn't see them before! We are both working so hard to fix ourselves and our marriage. I am eternally grateful for the growth I see in both of us.

But there are days, like the last couple of days, when I would love to live in Fool's Paradise again.... I miss that sense of peace, trust, belief in my man, naivety, confidence... I know it was all bullshit... but it was comfortable. This new life, while far more real, true, honest and genuine is a pretty scary place sometimes! It's hard, it's uncomfortable, it's tiring... 99.9% of the time I am happy to be here, but then I have days like today....


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 908 | Registered: Oct 2012
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are right, it is "Fool's Paradise"! So you get that.

When you start to feel that way, you need to sit with the feeling and talk to yourself. It was a false comfortable. Remind yourself. Take a deep breath and realize that he is safe today, that you are ok today. And today is all you can count on. Try to let go of tomorrow. Tomorrow may never happen, you know?

Hugs to you! Keep on keeping on!


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1415 | Registered: Jun 2012
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think living in the "NOW" is over rated.

Living in the now with no thoughts of future consequences is what allowed A's to happen.

Two of my favorite quotes in the subject are:

"You better look where you're going because you are going to go where your lookin"

"Your energy flows where your attention goes"

Goals and plans for the future keep me on track. They may or may not happen but they are definitely not useless!!! They provide hope. They provide motivation. They provide structure. They provide purpose.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2527 | Registered: Aug 2012
RipsInMyChest
♀ Member
Member # 41166
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsaclimb.....I could have written EVERY SINGLE WORD you have written on this thread!!!!!

After reading your original post, I was going to respond with something exactly like this, but you said it for me!

And also, what gets me down, is that - by it's very nature - marriage implies that you should be able to rely on your partner long-term.... why else get married? Those vows, they are long-term vows. They aren't promises made "until my feelings change" they are promises made "until death do us part".

I thought that by marrying my husband we were becoming a family and families are meant to stick together through thick and thin, through the ebb and flow of feelings. It's a life-time commitment in my eyes. If I hadn't wanted a life-time commitment I would have co-habitated rather than marrying.

I thought I was buying a house, not entering into a month-by-month rental agreement. And that's what I feel like I have now... a rental agreement. I don't like it. I want to own the house!

I don't like the term codependant. I think it is thrown around way too much. Humans are not meant to be solitary. Our happiness does depend on our relationships with friends, family and romantic partners. This is not codependency. One of the chief indicators of overall happiness is having fulfilling relationships in your life.

You seem to understand, as do I, that we would find happiness again without our partners. I think both of us sound like we've done that much growth. So while I know I could be with happy without my H, I don't want to be without my H. Like you, I took marriage vows because it meant something. It meant security for my children. It meant security for me. It meant working hard together in this life toward a common goal. It meant being able to enjoy the fruits of our labor in our old age together. It meant sharing my life with my best friend... Somebody that I trusted with all of my heart.

Like you I want security, and I'm not ashamed to admit I will continue to seek it. My H works very hard to make me feel secure....I just have trouble accepting that his vows and promises mean something now when the original ones did not. I work every day to believe that when "you know better you do better". And now that he knows the kind of pain and suffering that can be brought into this world through careless action and bad thinking, it is my hope that his vows mean more than they ever did before.

Huge hugs.


Me: BW 41
FWH 41
Together 21 yrs, M 18, 2 kids
DDay: 12/11/12 ONS with CW
Used condom, got chlamydia anyway.

His betrayal of me was not because I didn't shine brightly enough, but because he chose to put on blinders.


Posts: 245 | Registered: Oct 2013
Chinadoll30
♀ Member
Member # 43131
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I struggle with this, too. Lots of codependency. For me, right now, as far as our relationship goes, I am living in the day. Today he seems trustworthy and is not lying or cheating. But for the future, I am planning for me. I am working on myself and my future life. I am making strides to make sure I will be okay. And when the future comes, if he is still being trustworthy, then he can share it with us. If not, I will be okay. Sort of hoping for the best and planning for the worst.


"the world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places"
Ernest Hemingway

Posts: 199 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Philadelphia
RipsInMyChest
♀ Member
Member # 41166
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sort of hoping for the best and planning for the worst.

This is what I fight against....what kind of life is that? I do this too, I can't un-know what I know. But I don't want to live my life waiting for the other shoe to fall. I want to be able to fully relax, lean into joy, and know that I am safe.

After getting chlamydia from my H's ONS, safety and loyalty are a must. My health was risked... After that, infidelity is so much more than just broken trust. If I really had to plan for the worst, I would never have sex with my husband again.

[This message edited by RipsInMyChest at 9:50 AM, May 8th (Thursday)]


Me: BW 41
FWH 41
Together 21 yrs, M 18, 2 kids
DDay: 12/11/12 ONS with CW
Used condom, got chlamydia anyway.

His betrayal of me was not because I didn't shine brightly enough, but because he chose to put on blinders.


Posts: 245 | Registered: Oct 2013
RipsInMyChest
♀ Member
Member # 41166
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oops, double post...phone freak-out!

[This message edited by RipsInMyChest at 9:29 AM, May 8th (Thursday)]


Me: BW 41
FWH 41
Together 21 yrs, M 18, 2 kids
DDay: 12/11/12 ONS with CW
Used condom, got chlamydia anyway.

His betrayal of me was not because I didn't shine brightly enough, but because he chose to put on blinders.


Posts: 245 | Registered: Oct 2013
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Humans are not meant to be solitary. Our happiness does depend on our relationships with friends, family and romantic partners. This is not codependency. One of the chief indicators of overall happiness is having fulfilling relationships in your life.

I agree with you, but what you are describing is actually Interdependence -which is healthy. Interdependence is different from Codependence. There is nothing healthy about codependence.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/codependency-vs-interdependency/00014263


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1415 | Registered: Jun 2012
RipsInMyChest
♀ Member
Member # 41166
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interdependence -which is healthy. Interdependence is different from Codependence. There is nothing healthy about codependence.

I agree, I just think the term codependency is thrown around too much. I know I'm not technically codependent… But if I were to read a list of traits in a book I'm sure I could pick out many that I sometimes display. I think this is confusing to some people because then they label themselves wrongfully as codependent when they are not. It doesn't sound to me like it'saclimb is really codependent. She seems to understand that she would find happiness again without her husband....unless there is something with abuse or enabling going on that I am unaware of in her story.

Maybe I just don't like labels like this.... We all have codependent moments, and moments of great strength. It's kind of a mixed bag. I hate to see someone label themselves based on how they behave during a trauma.


Me: BW 41
FWH 41
Together 21 yrs, M 18, 2 kids
DDay: 12/11/12 ONS with CW
Used condom, got chlamydia anyway.

His betrayal of me was not because I didn't shine brightly enough, but because he chose to put on blinders.


Posts: 245 | Registered: Oct 2013
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree that part of having a healthy, fulfilling life for most people is having healthy, fulfilling relationships with other people.

However, those relationships should only add to our happiness. Our own self-love and self-worth should never be derived from other people, and so we need to be able to have a base level of happiness regardless of our relationships with others.

I've read it described as 'mental hooks'. We need to remove our 'hooks' from other people's actions, reactions, and emotional states. Their ups, downs, and behaviors should not translate into our own. We own our own feelings and actions, and other people own theirs. We can't blame others for our feelings, and they cannot blame us for theirs.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We can't blame others for our feelings, and they cannot blame us for theirs.

I'll call bullshit on this too. a large part of beung a mature human being is foreseeing how the consequences of our actions will effect others and taking ownership of that.

My fWS used to say "I am not responsible for your feelings" repeatedly over the years as a way to rationalize her impulsive behaviors.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2527 | Registered: Aug 2012
asurvivor
♂ Member
Member # 32368
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think living in the "NOW" is over rated.
Living in the now with no thoughts of future consequences is what allowed A's to happen.

I don't believe living in the NOW means you can rape and pillage because there is no consequence. Of course you need to make good choices NOW because of what those choices can mean to you and others. To me it means not letting the past and the future overwhelm you because they are just that...past and future. I know, hard to do but speaking just for myself, when I came to the realization that I could not control the past...that is when I started to heal. This doesn't mean I didn't learn from it...which by the way made my NOW a better place. The future is not here and mostly out of my control but that doesn't mean I'm not going to set goals and plan for it in my NOW. This whole concept of living in the NOW is what got me through the horrible shit hole of infidelity. It truly did. Now this doesn't mean I don't digress and occasionally obsess about past and future but life and dealing with things are so much easier now that I finally grasped the concept of NOW. Edited because my spelling in the NOW was bad. No wait that was the past.

[This message edited by asurvivor at 10:16 AM, May 8th (Thursday)]


I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know.



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