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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: My IC told me
Crushed15Feb13
♂ Member
Member # 38846
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


- I need to stop thinking about the affair so much.
- I need to stop digging for details, I've spent enough time down in the mud. The details aren't going to help me understand why it happened; it may be that I have to accept that I will NEVER understand why it happened.
- I should stop visiting SI; its probably not doing me any good.
- Different people have different values. My WW is more of a risk-taker than me, and she apparently has a vulnerability toward men (lack of proper boundaries).
- It sounds to him like I am still committed to the marriage and to WW, so I should just move forward, believe her promises and hope that she stays faithful in the future. If she doesn't, then the next infidelity should be the end of the marriage.
- WW and I need to talk to each other a lot more, about our feelings, our attitudes toward our relationship; basically anything and everything EXCEPT the affair.
- If I moved out and got out on my own, it might help me gain confidence in myself and a better perspective on our relationship. It might actually HELP facilitate better communication between us.
- He says he believes she really does love me; that if she didn't, she wouldn't put herself through the humbling experience of staying with me and having to look at me everyday and knowing how much she hurt me. I don't doubt that I still love her, and I believe she loves me (although I have this persistent, small fear that maybe what she feels toward me is sorrow / shame / guilt / remorse masquerading as love).

Some of what he says makes sense to me, but I really want the details - I want to rebuild those 5 years that I lived that were an illusion. I want to KNOW what the truth was during that time. I see it as getting my real life back.

But I think its true, I don't think I will EVER understand how she could have done this. But I think that means I will never again feel safe with her. But I think I do understand from the small amount of Pema Chodron I have read, that feeling safe is an illusion anyway. It's only when you are free-falling and don't which end is up that you really know what's going on. Sort of like a "Life is uncontrollable chaos so you might as well lean back, relax, and float with it" philosophy.

Sorry, I'm just trying to sort all this out.


Me: BH, 54
Her: WW, 54 4 yr LTA
Married 31 yrs, 2 college age boys
DDay #1: 15Feb13 - LTA 2008-2013
DDay #2: 27Jan14 - ONS, same AP 2007 - turns out it was a 5 yr LTA
Trying to understand

Posts: 242 | Registered: Mar 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My opinion is that you find another IC ASAP.

What is your gut feeling about this?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4859 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Furious1
♀ Member
Member # 42970
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My opinion is that you find another IC ASAP.

I second this opinion. You are only one year since your first D-day and months since your second D-day. Neither one of those D-days provided you with the details that you need to heal. No one gets to decide for you what level of detail that you need and I am a bit shocked that an IC would do this. No one gets to decide how long it takes for you to heal.

My IC tells me that it takes a minimum of two years to start restoring trust after a betrayal like this and even longer for a longer A, deeper betrayal, double betrayal, etc. Each person and each situation is different.

It sounds like your IC has his own issues which might lead him to rugsweep your situation. Sorry you are going through this and your IC is not being more helpful.


BW: 41
WH: 48
Married 18 years. SD: 25 from his 1st. M. DS: 20 from 1st M. DD: 16 (autistic)

D-day: Oct. 2013 with ongoing revelations.
6 affairs, 1 OC, My sister was OW#5 with countless attempted A's.
Considering R but fully ready to D.


Posts: 293 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
OnAnIsland
♀ Member
Member # 34319
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My opinion is that you find another IC ASAP.

I third this opinion. I hope that you are in an area where you can find other ICs.

I really want the details - I want to rebuild those 5 years that I lived that were an illusion. I want to KNOW what the truth was during that time. I see it as getting my real life back.

I completely understand this. And it seems completely rational and normal and healthy. (again, find a new IC) And 2.5 years out, I still ask a question about the truth of my life in the years of the A when I have one. I sit on it for a day or so to make sure I want to know it, if it is potentially traumatic. But even when you think you know everything, I think there will so often be more questions, and even the same questions. Until you are able to digest it all and incorporate it into your life story and the story of your M.

Take care of yourself.

[This message edited by OnAnIsland at 3:19 PM, May 7th (Wednesday)]


D-day: Christmas 2011
D-day 2: 3/28/2013

Married for over 15 years
2 beautiful boys in elementary school

You may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Maya Angelou


Posts: 1478 | Registered: Dec 2011
10yearsafter
♂ Member
Member # 43139
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am very sorry to say that many IC do not know how to deal with the infidelity. Find a new IC. Only you can know what you need to move forward.

I had to have every detail so I could go back and figure out what was going on i.e. she was supposed to pick up daughter from dance and did not. Because she was with OM.

I needed to understand what was going on with my family not just FWW. It helped me tremendously. I also asked her things like what were you thinking when you decided to abandon your daughter for OM. I left NO stone unturned. It was part of the agreement of R.

I told her when I was santisified that I knew what I needed to know she would take a polygraph. If she lied about anything I was done.

Hang in there


Posts: 188 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
sisoon
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Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He's right - the details won't help you understand why she cheated.

What the details do, though, is rebuild trust. Every honest answer gives you more reason to trust her. Every honest answer gives her more reason to trust you. And trust and love reinforce each other.

IMO and IME, reading SI stirs up my issues. SI has uncovered issues that would have remained hidden. Since R will be better if I resolve my own issues, that's a Good Thing. Reading SI may not be pleasant, but it sure helps me heal better than I would without it.

...so I should just move forward, believe her promises and hope that she stays faithful in the future.

Gently, do you have requirements for R? What is she doing to meet them? Usual reqs include: NC with ap(s), IC for WS, MC, honest answers to all your questions, actions that show remorse (not just words)., etc.

I can easily believe your W has no intention of cheating again. I also believe she won't be able to keep her promises unless she changes from a cheater into a good partner. That requires changing her internal thoughts, and that almost always need outside help; hence the requirement for IC.

It sounds like this guy isn't very experienced helping people deal with infidelity except by rug-sweeping.

To test this out, remind him that your W's failure to answer your questions is a form of lying. Ask him how you can stay in an M with a person who's lying.

A new IC may be a good idea.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10065 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
sunvalley
♀ Member
Member # 42952
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I met with an IC who told me about 3wks after DD#2 that I needed to 'bottle up' all the A stuff during the week and then bring it to her. That if I were to 'let it out' during the week with my WS I am the one spreading tar on the current relationship when clearly he is trying so hard to make up for what he's done. I found a new IC. A lot of what was said in your post reminds me of that IC that I saw. I do believe there are good points to the message, but all in all I would say that this Ic has a very similar message as that one that I saw. This method may work for some people but to me it felt like rugsweeping and a 'always keep a positive outlook and get rid of the negatives' mentality...I just wasn't there yet.

Not thinking about the A so much? Ya, I probably shouldn't either, but it was a hurtful and betraying time that I'm still coming to terms with so I gently try to remind myself that it was in the past but I have emotions surrounding it to address still. I do believe that you will never understand the why. No rational minded person can understand what was going through the mind of someone who wasn't thinking rationally...in fact chances are the WS doesn't even have all the answers, so how can you? But knowing the details will help you feel confident that there is not more to come out, that there will not be further TTs and you deserve that peace of mind! Visiting SI has its pros and cons. It has triggered me, it has started fights with WS about things that I started to question again, but it's also made me feel less ALONE. And I do question why you can't talk about the A? Is it supposed to remain the elephant in the room? Are you supposed to feel shamed every time a question plagues you? Or are you supposed to focus on communication and understanding? This IC also suggested to WS that he move out for a while so that I could gain perspective...I had already kicked him out for a few days prior to R and that's when perspective of what we wanted was gained, but we are still very much in R and dealing with it at our own pace.

My gut tells me that you are not fully happy with the IC. I agree, there are some valid points there, but perhaps this one is just not the best 'fit' for you? I think we all feel our 'safety' and 'control' of our lives was lost around DDay...it is when we realized that no matter how we do things, our lives are not fully in our control. I don't know that I'll ever feel safe again either, but equally I'm not sure that I'd feel safe anywhere - my naivety and innocence are gone, I now realize that even those closest to us can do things we'd never expect of them, putting our M in jeopardy and even our lives at risk. Perhaps it's better for us in the long run to not have our blinders on and realize that there is always potential for things to turn out differently than we planned, maybe that will make us stronger and more prepared for what life throws our way...I don't know.


Posts: 535 | Registered: Mar 2014
Rebreather
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Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your counselor seems to have no idea how to deal with trauma, or offer trauma therapy. That advice is pretty much the opposite of how to handle this kind of thing.

Do you need to communicate better? All of us do.

Will becoming more secure in yourself make you a better version of yourself? Yep.

Will eventually forcing the affair out of your mind be a healthy step? Yep.

But I don't think any of that can be done if you don't fix the wounds first.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
betrayedpregnant
♀ Member
Member # 43304
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

???? Your IC is adopting this strategy of "Let's pretend the affair never happened", since the affair is justified anyway because your WS is a "risk taker", and she's going out of her way to go through the "humbling experience of staying with you" ????? Stop paying this guy money... This is obviously not his area of expertise.

Posts: 225 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Hawaii
absolut
♀ Member
Member # 37933
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How long have you been seeing your therapist?

Do you generally like him?

I can see how he would say to stop with the message board. If he knows your specific situation he might feel it isn't helpful. Sometimes I've seen threads on here where I've felt that way. These are internet message boards and they can be great but personally I trust my therapist more. What do you think?

Re: your wife's personality. also might be true. I'm kind of a risk taker rule breaker myself. I'm not talking about monogamy but that's irrelevant. It can work very much for me but also against me. I try to make sure I always have it working in my favor. We all have character traits we can't change.

That does NOT mean you have to stay with her. I'm not familiar with your story but i can see that your kids are grown.

What is it about your wife that makes the therapist feel she can't or won't set boundaries with men? Bc living with that kind of uncertainty just isn't fair to you.


Posts: 421 | Registered: Dec 2012
bionicgal
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Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would not be quick to ditch a therapist for this advice. You do need to get to a point where you don't think about the affair so much, or dig for details. It is true. Is it true at 4 months? I don't know. But, your therapist might.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1949 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would say that you facilitate a break up with your IC.

You need the puzzle pieces from your "lost years" of the A. I wonder if a therapist would tell any other trauma victims to just forget about their pain and causes, to move on and quit worrying about it.

I still feel that any spouse that gives the gift of R to their WS deserves the entire, unvarnished truth, complete with all answers to every question asked. Anything else is a cruel, selfish continuation of the underlying genealogy of the A.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1468 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
crossroads2010
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Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree ...it sounds like you need a new IC, but I do understand that he is trying to put the focus on YOU not your marriage and leading you into a path that will help you let go of the baggage and find your own joy. My IC was a great one and she did that too, but she understood that I needed to express my feelings to my H and I needed answers to some unanswered questions about unknown events in my life and encouraged me to talk with my H...she agreed that I had a RIGHT to know about things hidden from me in my marriage.

She also understood my obsessive need to understand why and how, but convinced me to accept that I may never understand these things and that he did what he did because he wanted to...he wasn't forced to and (whether he loved me or not) he put his needs above mine and that was that.

I did let the why did you do this part go...I have accepted that this is a part of him that that I didn't know about. I don't think he intends to do it again, but I will never be able to trust that he won't...he lied to me so blatantly before...he had a A with the same woman 2 times, 20 years apart, during our 35 year marriage...why should I believe him?

"I want to rebuild those 5 years that I lived that were an illusion. I want to KNOW what the truth was during that time. I see it as getting my real life back."

Aftr such a long partnership, it is not rocket science to understand this...I have a 20 year piece of my M between these 2 A's that now seems like a huge lie.

I think we all need answers, we need to sort out feelings,work on our marriages if we chose to stay in them, but we need rediscover ourselves and enbrace the positive changes and find our own joy outside the marriage as well. I am not familiar with Pema Chodron, but the accepting chaos idea is certainly interesting to an OCD perosn like myself.


Posts: 594 | Registered: Nov 2010
Crushed15Feb13
♂ Member
Member # 38846
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tired Girl -
What is my gut feeling about this?
My gut feeling is I'm not ready to ditch this IC. This is my fourth one, and I've never been to any other more than 3 times. I just haven't 'clicked' with any yet. Getting tired of new ones all the time and not getting very deep into therapy.

Sisoon -

Gently, do you have requirements for R? What is she doing to meet them? Usual reqs include: NC with ap(s), IC for WS, MC, honest answers to all your questions, actions that show remorse (not just words)., etc.
I haven't referred to them directly as requirements, but she did have to go NC, find an IC, send an NC letter when the AP kept trying to contact her, give up her affair-enabling friends. I've also asked for a detailed timeline but do not trust that anymore since the massive TT last January which changed the length and complexion of the affair. None of the new truths were mentioned in the that timeline. She hasn't given me an updated one yet. She is willing to answer questions when I ask them however. I just don't know if I'm getting the truth or not.

Absolut -

How long have you been seeing your therapist? Do you generally like him? These are internet message boards and they can be great but personally I trust my therapist more. What do you think?What is it about your wife that makes the therapist feel she can't or won't set boundaries with men?
I've seen this guy 3 times, and in general I like him as well as anybody I guess. I like that he's older than me, and he has a pleasant disposition. But, I trust the collective wisdom of the SI group more than any therapist I've dealt with yet.
My wife also admitted on my first DDay to an ONS with a mutual friend of ours before we were married, but while we were supposedly a serious and committed couple. She says it was a mistake and doesn't know why she did it. She thinks she had self-identity issues and let these men tell her who she was and how she thought about things. She's been my best friend for 30+ years and I never saw this - so I don't know if its a ruse or convenient excuse, or if I am that unobservant.

LovedYouMore -

I still feel that any spouse that gives the gift of R to their WS deserves the entire, unvarnished truth, complete with all answers to every question asked. Anything else is a cruel, selfish continuation of the underlying genealogy of the A.
I feel exactly the same way. And I also feel pretty angry today. I think if I have to force myself to not think about the affair, to 'stuff' and questions I have about it into the back of my mind and bury them there, then I might as well chuck everything and actually move out. Because I don't think I can look at WW's beautiful face everyday and have all these questions and not be allowed to have any answers. F&^#@ that. It'd be easier to say good bye now and never see her again and start a new life on my own somewhere far away. And I seriously mean that. I have tried hard to be understanding and compassionate about this horrible, awful mess, and I feel like I'm being stepped on, taken advantage of and manipulated as well. I think I'm about at my limit.


Me: BH, 54
Her: WW, 54 4 yr LTA
Married 31 yrs, 2 college age boys
DDay #1: 15Feb13 - LTA 2008-2013
DDay #2: 27Jan14 - ONS, same AP 2007 - turns out it was a 5 yr LTA
Trying to understand

Posts: 242 | Registered: Mar 2013
rachelc
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Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know if you need a new therapist or not. This would probably not sit well with me, from what I know about how people recover from trauma. I wish more IC understood it.
I certainly understand how you're tired of breaking new ones in though. Sometimes just a nugget of wisdom helps and then it's worth going.
But I love this:

I trust the collective wisdom of the SI group more than any therapist I've dealt with yet.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4908 | Registered: Dec 2010
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK. I get it. I've got a couple more suggestions.

Belief: Since one of the biggest impediments to R is not believing your WS, I'd suggest some MC sessions. The MC should be able to communicate how important honesty is to R & to M and to observe your W and help you figure out if she's lying.

A comment: IMO, R requires both parties both to be honest and to recognize each other's honesty. If you want to R, you need to figure out how to recognize and accept your W's honesty - or dishonesty.

I did it by massive questioning, asking the same Q different ways and at different times and comparing the answers, noticing answers that were hard to admit (like, 'yes, I lied then ... and then ...and then....), etc.

I understand at first you don't know what to believe, because you were duped so successfully, but testing and verifying helped me get past that. Maybe it will help you.

Therapist: I think you can make use of this guy if you take control of your own therapy, for instance by telling him you need answers because answers build trust and by having your goals for therapy pretty clear. You can get ideas by reading SI, adopting the stuff that makes sense and ignoring the stuff that doesn't. (My advice here may be really, really good, but if it doesn't make sense to you or if it doesn't fit your sitch, it doesn't do you any good.... )

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:08 PM, May 8th (Thursday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10065 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
veronique12
♀ Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, I am in the camp that thinks that this isn't such terrible advice. Of course you need your questions answered but at this point is there anything you're asking about that will drastically change your plan to R? Or is it an obsessive urge to understand your W's thinking at the time?

If you know you want to work toward R and your W is showing that she's ready to as well, I do think at some point (and that point varies widely!) the goal is to try to focus on the present as opposed to digging and digging into the past. Easier said than done, I know!

If there are particular points about the A that are nagging at you, try to dig into what it is about those issues that is so troubling to you. At a recent IC session I was saying how stuck I am on the fact that my H allowed the OW to pretend to be my friend instead of hiding her away. I just can't seem to let that go and nothing my H says to me about why he allowed that to happen is satisfactory. That led to a big discussion about events from my childhood in which I experienced similar types of deceptive behavior and has given me a lot to think about how I can maybe one day let this go.

This type of work could definitely segue into intimate discussions with your W about yourselves, your perceptions, and how you can be better partners for each other.


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 493 | Registered: Jan 2014
TheBestMe
♀ Member
Member # 39476
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, May 8th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crushed - Sisoon brings out some really good points. There are many details and questions that you have, as you try to wrap your head around this mess. The additional trauma of being made aware of your W having deceived you for 5 years can leave one questioning almost everything.

I need to stop thinking about the affair so much.
- I need to stop digging for details, I've spent enough time down in the mud. The details aren't going to help me understand why it happened; it may be that I have to accept that I will NEVER understand why it happened.

My IC, group therapist and PCP, have all told me the same thing. My take away from this is: "Do not get bogged down in the details of the A. Getting stuck is not positive movement". As in other areas of our health, we have to be our own advocate. We should be researching and gathering as much information as necessary to assist in our own healing.


I should stop visiting SI; its probably not doing me any good

I must admit that sometimes I have to log off. There are certain posts that TRIGGER me and my reactions are unhealthy.

IMO and IME, reading SI stirs up my issues. SI has uncovered issues that would have remained hidden. Since R will be better if I resolve my own issues, that's a Good Thing. Reading SI may not be pleasant, but it sure helps me heal better than I would without it.

^^^ Without SI my H and I would be in divorce court. This forum has given me some additional tools to help through this trauma. Mostly, there is a support group of FRIENDS that will call me on my stuff when necessary and hug me when needed.

Some of what he says makes sense to me, but I really want the details - I want to rebuild those 5 years that I lived that were an illusion. I want to KNOW what the truth was during that time. I see it as getting my real life back
.

One of the harder points for me to comprehend is that the time that my H was having the LTA my life was not an illusion. It was the truth of the M. When I was searching for details my motivation was to know what was going on behind my back. The details that I garnered did not change any event that took place during that time. They served to fill in the blanks that already existed.

Your IC is no doubt trying to point you in the direction that will better facilitate communication with your W.


ME Doing Better
WH Trying As Best He Can
Married 23 years
Status: Working towards friendship
D Day #1 - 2007 My gut told me
D Day #2 - 2010 His D told me
D Day #3 - 1/11/2013 OW Confirmed
LTA 7 years

Both feet pointed forward; positive


Posts: 428 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Inner Peace
Topic Posts: 18

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