I hope they are one of the couples that make it.
I find it odd and unhelpful when posters in this JFO advocate for Swat to reconcile. While I am all for R, it has to be something Swat wants--and it is healthy for him. He has stated repeatedly that his current mindset is for D. Why are people continuing to seek for him to reconsider?
I agree with this so much and I only advise D when WS is cake eating and refusing to end the A. BUT, everyone has their breaking point and their deal breakers and that is something that should be respected regardless of what posters feel. SWAT has said many times that infidelity was a deal breaker and that is something he has had to mull over and face in light of his WW's actions. I do not blame him for seeing the omission of the journal and pictures as the straw that broke the camel's back no matter how many people who R'd dealing with far "greater" amounts of betrayal. It's disheartening to read posters pushing SWAT to re-think his decision as if they know what's best for him. There's no way they could know what's best for him from just reading all his and his WW's posts. Asking someone to re-think their position on making a healthy choice for themselves smacks of a lack of support and a misguided paternalistic mind set. Seriously, send your support but don't do it with blatant messages meant to cause SWAT to doubt himself.
SWAT, sending you my support and just know that R is possible even after D. There are posters who got a D and re-married later after rebuilding their entire relationship in to a healthier one with safe partners. Make the best choice for you and your children. Follow your intuition. If you think you made a mistake in asking for a D now, that is something you can change later on down the road if your WW gets her shit together and works on making herself a safe partner for you.
Talk about a blow to the ego. Here I am bad ass cop. I can tell when your lying, NOT
In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.
i wouldn't put it that way. affairs are exciting. it's not a fair comparison. and you have to remember, she stopped the affair on her own over a year ago. doesn't sound to me like she's obsessed with having sex with the OM. in fact, most remorseful WWs who have come out of the fog say that the AP could have been anyone. It wasn't about the AP, it was about their own brokeness.
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
You now see your WW in pain. I envision you being the comforting officer not the badass with a billyclub. So when you see your wife sad and in emotional pain your base, animal reaction is to protect and comfort. The human part of you is trying to put up a block that says DO NOT COMFORT THAT WOMAN. This creates a strong dissonance between your drives and your thoughts. In an effort to overcome the dissonance your mind is automatically searching for facts. Obviously the first thing your mind finds are the oldest most strongly engrained memories...the most significant relationship IN YOUR LIFETIME. Rather than thinking wistfully "I have to believe the woman I married is still there"...you might go through a mental checklist of the events of the past year.
You obviously feel it could be salvageable IF she could commit to intense therapy and specific behavior changes within the family. If I were in your shoes I might be more eager to pursue divorce to get his SERIOUS attention. Divorced people get remarried ALL the time. If you let her "talk you into staying in the marriage" you could end up reinforcing affair behavior making each time she falls onto the slippery slope easier and easier.
Everyone here is offering their best opinion based on what they know. Your job is to read and reflect then do what makes sense to YOU. The destruction of infidelity and betrayal is DEVASTATING AND WIDE WIDE RANGING. Many people even see a dramatic DECREASE in their credit scores! The sad thing is there is new research that is showing even families that do not divorce...they too have the widespread impact. BETRAYAL IS DESTRUCTION....PERIOD.
Remember this one FACT: YOU did not do anything wrong. SHE SCREWED UP YOUR FAMILY.
[This message edited by angerisme at 2:24 PM, June 7th (Saturday)]
<quietly dignifed with a slight upward tilt to the nose>
I find it odd and unhelpful when posters in this JFO advocate for Swat to reconcile. While I am all for R, it has to be something Swat wants--and it is healthy for him
And as long as we are all still throwing in our two cents, SWAT I hate to say it but with the level of involvement OM had in your family for DECADES and the sexual history between them that btw was kept from you, it's possible this goes even deeper than this A. We'd have to believe that years and years were spent with no boundaries ever crossed, ever, and then like lightening BAM! this happened.
As usual, just be careful. Which I know you are, you're not stupid, but still.
Oh and btw, don't feel like a sucker for not catching the lies. I was a private investigator, not as big a deal as a cop, but still...I watched cheaters for a living!!! and I still got snowed. Actually, unlike you, I "knew" things but he would explain away everything, and I still have nothing tangible. I'm in limbo.
My mother was always the OW
ExWH in first marriage had LTA. DDAY was November 2003.
2/2013 Busted him at strip club.
Porous boundaries w/ ho-worker
its not fair to say she preferred OM over you and its not true. he could have been anyone, if not him ... then someone else. there wasnt anything inherently special about him that made her have sex with him but rather because there was something wrong inside of her. he just gave her an additional push more than most people do if it hadnt been him then sooner or later it would have been someone else. its not a comparison between you and OM, its about a weak and damaged WS. thats a brutal truth but also a very liberating one.
id suggest following your heart and your mind. thats all the advice you need to know whats right.
from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA
??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys
if they demonstrate true remorse and sorrow for what they have done then the BS should seriously contemplate reconciliation.
I am not going far,just to the barn so I'm still at home and can see the kids everyday.
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
I always thought I could read people I mean its what I do. But she got me good. I believed her and she fooled me. Talk about a blow to the ego. Here I am bad ass cop. I can tell when your lying, NOT.
You are 'biased' to believe in your partner.....and so a LOT of stuff that you would throw a bullshit flag on if a 'random' person pulled it, sails right past your head because you aren't even LOOKING for it, kwim
Not really a barn more like a huge garage that looks just like a barn. But with a bed and a shower oh yeah two German Shepards a Dutch Shepard and two black lab mixes. The chickens stay outside. Got to love living in the burbs. I've got 5 acres and I'm 15 minutes from work.
Divorce was filed, but I'm willing to give her one more chance. I'm watching.
a place or occasion of severe test or trial.
"the crucible of combat"
a place or situation in which different elements interact to produce something new.
For some WS, being found out is enough to put them into the crucible. For others, seeing the pain of their BS is enough. For others, the A fallout does not produce enough heat to bring on the crucible experience. They TT, cover up, and continue lying because they are still fighting for control, avoiding the crucible heat.
The BS is forced into the crucible immediately upon finding out about the A. We go in screaming in pain, and come out the other side completely changed. MC said the inequality in the post A relationship happens when the WS delays entering. The BS has moved beyond the searing heat, only to have TT drag us back toward it, continuing to burn us, because the WS is still on the other side of the heat, refusing to let go and enter.
As a betrayed spouse who has already come out on the other side, you have to decide to either keep getting burned because your WS will not let go of the other side and walk through, or you can move away from the heat, hoping that will be enough to make her follow you through.
Our MC said it much more eloquently so I hope that made sense. Pulling away is not so much that you are done, but strength to be the catalyst that will make her decide a real change is in order. Maybe she will let go of her pride and control and enter the furnace.
I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.
Out of the deep. You got it. I'm supposed to believe that. It just doesn't add up for me. Is it possible? Sure anything is. But I trusted both of them with so much. It could have been going on for years and I just didn't know. There was no indication until early last year. We seemed fine. But again I don't KNOW. Everything I believed...pfft gone.
William. Thank you and your right. I've greatly appreciated your insight and support. But unfortunately I'm not there yet. I can't help but believe she wanted him. There has to be something he had that she wanted. I've known him since I was a teen. I thought I knew him as well. I've seen how he treats people and unfortunately I've seen him naked. (Not impressed by the way with either) I will admit I defended him a lot prior to the affair. That is what friends do. I just didn't know he hated me so much and was screwing my wife behind my back while looking me in the eye and calling me friend.
I'm not perfect and I'm sure I wasn't a perfect husband. I worked long hours and frequent OT. But I was a good a man and husband as I could be. I made time for her and my kids. I wouldn't sleep to spend time with her. I made date nights and I never ever forgot her birthday, Valentines day or our anniversary. I know that doesn't make me husband of the decade. But I tried so hard to never give her reason to complain or not love me or feel unloved. I loved her the best I knew how and it wasn't enough. That hurts. Logically I know I am not to blame for her affair. But emotionally not so much. I'm working on it though I promise.
I appreciate everyone's advice and comments. Please don't argue over them. Some of you are reading her posts I know because you've told me or at least given me that impression. I'm walking a not so straight path to D. Will it come to that I'm not 100% sure. I'm at about 75-80% right now. I'm a big boy and all opinions and advice are welcome. If you upset me I'll tell you. This site has seen me through some very dark times and all of you have helped in some way. Everyone here is hurting BS and WS. YOP buddy I'm not forgetting you either.
I'm walking a not so straight path to D. Will it come to that I'm not 100% sure. I'm at about 75-80% right now. I'm a big boy and all opinions and advice are welcome
Try not to beat yourself up over not seeing her lies. You're a good egg, so you trusted your wife like you should have...so of course you didn't see it coming.
Your plan sounds good. You physically separate, that will give you some space to start to heal, but at the same time you are close enough that you can see for yourself what progress she makes. And you have at least 6 months to do it. This puts you in a good position to make a more informed decision of if your wife is a good R candidate or if you even want to R.
Another poster mentioned how long OM has been hovering around your wife and family, years. That caught my eye, because I admit when first reading your story, and OM's behavior I thought, there's more to this. There's a reason he's batshit crazy like that and she STILL went to meet with him.
Now whether you care to find out why and what all really happened, I don't know. I'm not even sure you should at this point. Enough damage has been done to you with information you can't "un-know". I guess if it were me, I would let the rest go unknown unless there was some pressing legal reason for me to find it all out.
Seriously though. Your case isn't any worse than any of ours who are Ring. It's just worse because it's your wife.
That's why it really is a good idea to decide to not decide anything for a year. See what she does over a longer period of time. Same advice I'd give nearly anyone with kids and a spouse with potential for remorse and who doesn't say it was always a deal breaker. I think that's you.
It's very tough. Be gentle with yourself and take care.
I loved her the best I knew how and it wasn't enough.
Swat I am certain it was more than enough love that you showed her. The problem is she doesn't love herself enough to not have to go looking for ways to get outside validation.
Good luck brother. You are certainly strong enough to get through this with or without her.
SWAT - Whatever you decide, I'm with you. If you want to hire a mediator so you never have to see or speak to her again, fantastic. If you want to run to her right now, tell her you love her more than anything and want to R, fantastic. As long as it's what YOU want, and not what someone said you should do, or shouldn't do, or guilt or anything else. Right now, YOU and YOUR NEEDS are the focus in this marriage. Obviously, the children are always the focus of the parents. I'm speaking strictly about you and WW.
About the pension/child support/inheritance, etc. Please give this some thought. You said she got a VERY large inheritance. Legally, that is half yours. I would make that clear if the subject of your pension being a marital asset comes up even once. You don't need to actually petition for any of it, but let her know that if she won't honor her commitment to leave your retirement along, then ALL monetary assets are going into that pool, and all sellable assets as well. I doubt you'll have much of an issue after she realizes that you aren't the only one with funds to lose. You're actually being very fair, imo.
Also, regarding the inheritance. She inherited a home, and now a rather large sum of money. I'm going to make a suggestion that you either convince her to put enough into a trust to cover the children's college funds, and if convincing doesn't work, I would ask for that in the divorce. It's common to add language discussing college fees in divorce agreements. If the funds are available now, and she can still survive comfortably after creating the trust, then to me that just seems like the responsible action.
As far as her 'subdued' behavior of late - I think it's a bit more than just her realizing R isn't possible. I think she's realizing that there are no tricks, or cute faces, or lies or justifications that she can pull out of her bag of tricks. She's tried them all, and she's still not getting her way. I think she's lost because, until now, she's always gotten what she wants, often through manipulation tactics. If this is true, then imo it's a good thing. It means she can't focus her time on what her next move will be to 'make this go away', or how she can charm you into not leaving. You being upset, angry, etc she was ready for, but leaving? No, she honestly never thought this was a real possibility. Now she sees it is, and she needs to face herself and her actions, and her only option left is to work on herself. I really think this is a good thing.
Now, for you (((((hugs)))))
You really are an amazing example of strength.