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User Topic: OM wins...I'm done.
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Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWIW having read this thread I think in the battle between your head and your heart it is obvious that you have very much wanted your WW to make it. You have given her several chances - and in the end you can tell you heart you really tried to give her every chance to come back to you.

I forgave worse than you, and 5 years later I am sure I did the right thing. But I did so only when it became clear my wife was really trying to change. I still look back and think I was weak - that lasts about as long as it takes for me to see my son and my wife together in the same house as me.

Your situation is different - and you know the best obviously. But anyone can see how you have really given your W every chance she could have wanted.

BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 302 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
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Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been following you both...

I would support R or D for you. I do believe she's possibly R material with counseling and changes. I think she wants to change. She's made some awful mistakes but very few WSs don't early on. Mine broke NC repeatedly for a week but I didn't know until many months later. Had I learned at the time, I might have divorced him over that alone. But six months later, he was well on his way to being a different person than the man who broke NC.

But I digress...

My only comment is that whether you follow your head or your heart or your gut, make sure you follow it and don't let pride get in the way of your own peace of mind. Sometimes pride makes us do things that are not in our own best interest.

If you want to D because it's just a dealbreaker for you - do it. If you want to R but are waiting to see what she does - good for you. If you want to R but your pride won't let you, I urge you to reconsider and do some real soul searching. Don't let pride get in the way of what you really want.

You are clearly a stand-up man and you've handled this so well despite how very, very hard it's been. You have my respect no matter your decision. Good luck and take care.

Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1514 | Registered: Nov 2010
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Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you've been remarkably strong from the start.

I agree.

When I was a newly minted BH I had strong ideas about infidelity too. It took me some time and I had to redefine the way I looked at everything.

I flatly told my IC shortly after my DDay that I needed an excuse to stay M.

WTF !? Did I really say that aloud ?

I didn't need a excuse for me to stay. My pride needed an excuse to for me to stay.

Weakness became generosity. Done to me became done to herself. Pride was something to consider, but would making the "right" decision to make me happy.

It isn't about right or wrong.
It is about being happy. About you being happy.

No else's. Yours.

Any choice you make has consequences. You are free to change your mind. Don't box yourself into a finite number of outcomes.

Again what is most important to you ?

PS- I know it sounds like I am pushing you one way. I do not intend that. Just things to consider in your journey that I learned in mine.

Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.

Posts: 2570 | Registered: May 2010
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Member # 42896
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm just sick of having doubts and being indecisive. That isn't me. I don't had doubts and I fight for what is right. So being wishy washy and whiny isn't my style and I'm wholeheartedly sick of it. It ends today be it good or bad.

I absolutely hate this about me now.
I have a very strong personality. I don't tolerate fools easily.

Yet I'm on the roller coaster and it just plain sucks. So alien to me.
I don't have grey areas, I see things in black and white.

[This message edited by mozzchops at 1:39 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)]

The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Posts: 119 | Registered: Mar 2014
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Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Swat,

For what it's worth, be kind to yourself, don't be too hard on yourself for feeling indecisive, conflicted, the battle between heart and mind.

I am a year and a half out from dday #1 and six months from dday #2. I always believed infidelity would be a deal breaker for me.

I did not respond how I always believed that I would, of course I never believed I would ever be in this position.

I think clarity comes with time, with introspection.

Honestly, I think the conflict is normal. If you did not feel conflicted, if you could walk away so easily, what would that say about you and your depth and commitment?

I struggle still with the internal conflict, but take comfort that I cared, was invested, was able to love enough to feel this conflict.

I don't know if I am expressing this correctly but just give yourself time. It really will settle a little inside you.

You have handled yourself with strength, you will handle whatever comes next.

"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie


Posts: 1470 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
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Member # 30992
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Swat, I've been following your story and you have done amazingly well throughout all of this. My IC pointed out something to me back in the early days of my betrayal which brought me some peace of mind...

You have many truths going on here. Your wife cheated on you. She lied to you. Her actions were embarrassing to you. All true.

More truths: you love your wife. You have an amazing family. You have an amazing extended family.

My IC told me it is human nature to want to resolve these conflicting truths. Just get it all sorted and done and laid to rest. And you seem like the kind of guy who wants it resolved right now. But the fact of the matter is that they are all truths, and if you can accept this fact it may bring you some peace. It doesn't have to be resolved in your mind right away, just accepted that you are trying to decide your path. Good luck, Swat.

Posts: 138 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: East Coast
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Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SWAT, I have read through some of your story but haven't really contributed. Maybe it's time.

Who does that? That is a rhetorical question. Waywards do it all the time. But I can't wrap my head around that

Look - I realize it's tough to comprehend. We who have reconciled successfully have all gone through a period of trying to understand. But it's just not possible. It's hard to really believe that your wife was doing something out of a problem with herself. But she loved me! Yup - and she still did it. Not to hurt you, but because she couldn't manage herself. It's a hard thing to understand.

But it will become easier to understand - and, like me - two years from now you will see it much more clearly.

So now for the tough love. It is obvious that you love your wife. It is also very obvious that she loves you and that she knows that she's made terrible choices and that she needs help. To lose your marriage and your family in a case where you both know that you WANT to be together is a shame. It really is.

My wife did stuff that is WAY worse than yours. It took me a long time to wrap my head around it. But you know what? She worked her ass off, put up with a ton of shit from me, faced up to what she had done and came out a MUCH better person. And in the end, I am incredibly happy that I didn't lay down the hammer and end it. She was, and is, worth the fight. And we have come out with a marriage that is FAR better than it ever was.

Whenever I stop in to peek at your thread I want to scream, "Don't give up." Because it is clear, to me at least, that your marriage can make it if she continues to do what she's supposed to (and it seems like she is) and if YOU can come to an understanding with yourself (which, believe it or not, you will).

It's easy to divorce. It's hard to stay and fight.

Fight for your marriage. I know you will say you did. Well, fight harder.

"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
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Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strength and clarity to you, Swat.

Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012

Posts: 5096 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
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Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He should gain clarity today. One way or another. D or R depends largely on what happens, doesn't it? He doesn't know what will happen as he's relatively new into this swamp and OM is still around lurking in the shadows ready to strike and hurt all involved.

Suggesting D is the way to go, or that R is nirvana, doesn't seem to me to offer practical advice right now to SWAT. He simply doesn't have enough information or enough separation to know which way to go.

I'm not suggesting that WW isn't remorseful, but I suspect she has a long way to go to fix herself. And if she doesn't, SWAT remains in the swamp up to his ass in alligators.

A wise course, I believe, is to see whether she can fix herself over time.

Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
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Member # 42997
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't posted to you previously, but I wanted to reiterate something that was said earlier that took me a while to grasp:
You aren't weak for watching and waiting. In fact, it may require more strength than anything you've ever done.
This could not be more true. I, like you, am driven by integrity, justice, and reason above all else; they are in fact my core values. I decide, commit and then act without hesitation in all facets of my life. My moral compass is a shining example to others. I cannot fathom doing what has been done to us, or even approaching that line, or hell, even being close enough to see that line from a mile away with binoculars. With that being said, I'm still here, silently watching my wayward. Infidelity is a dealbreaker, the TT/lies that come after d-day are beyond a dealbreaker. This is a certain truth for men like you and I. A strong line in the sand is a healthy approach and many people admire you for drawing that line with integrity and consideration, something you should be proud of. I like you have drawn a heavy line in the sand, a chasm that rivals the Grand Canyon in fact.

One thing I've realized though is that I am not opposed to striking a new bargain with a new person. Just as we are, our waywards are becoming new people. They are striving as hard as they can in our direction. The only question that remains to be asked is this: they have the desire to become someone we want to be with, someone they are proud to be but do they have the ability? Time will tell.

Never apologize for having high standards. People who really want to be in your life will rise up to meet them.

D-day 1/6/2014-1/23/2014

Posts: 174 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Colorado
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Member # 41477
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Swat, just remember that you don't have to decide on anything today. You can still decide to be with or with here at any point in the foreseeable future, so I hope you won't burden yourself with having to make a final, definitive choice soon. I understand you don't like the idea of being "wish-washy", but sometimes the hardest, but the most prudent thing, is to wait and continue to evaluate the situation.

Like you said, you have at least 6 months before the divorce is final, and even after that you guys can still get back together or remarry. So my advice to you is to take your time in making any long-term, definitive decisions, either way.

Best wishes to all of you

BxBf, 26
Lots of FOO&other issues, working it through therapy
Legal profession

Posts: 333 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Continental Europe
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Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Swat. The reality is your very much dealing with to people, ww in affair fog, fww who has bottomed out
The person she was is imo different then nor. Now she seen you wrecked and no longeranipulated, your children's lives affected, her mother father and brother all seeing a very tarnished princess.

Honestly, sitting and watching seeing consistent behaviors are the only way we saved our marriage. That and me accepting him as flawed. I lost my fairy tale.

Please don't base your life on this one conversation. You will likely be conflicted a million times. Good thoughts.

sorry post on my tablet

Posts: 328 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: pricklepatch
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Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just strength.

BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3164 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
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Member # 42915
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in ICR so I just pasted it here

Well. I was sick of feeling indecisive. So I did what I always do. Picked up a weapon and faced the enemy head on. Usually works for me, except that one time I ended up in a hospital.
WW wanted to talk so we did. I kind if went Joe Friday on her ass. I didn't want feelings or emotions I wanted just the facts ma'am. I used every interview and interrogation technique I know. As far as i can tell she was honest and told the truth. I won't lie it sucked to hear some of the shit she said about me and some of the things she did to have her affair. I struggled with some things she did with OM and would deny me. She explained it and I logically understand, but he had a part of my wife I haven't and likely won't.

She said some things that helped me to. She said she wouldn't give up fighting for me even if it took her fifty years. Obvious exaggeration but still made me feel good. I asked her to if we could talk again Friday and maybe have dinner. She agreed. I'm thinking we can maybe do something once a week where we are talking and I can just sit back and watch her. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm flying by the seat of my pants, but the internal struggle was killing me. I just decided to go for it and see. Win or lose I'm going to find my answers.

Me BH-45. WW-39
DD-11 DS-6 DS-3
D day was Valentines day 2014. Talk about a trigger.

Posts: 341 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: Down range
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Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This weekly dinner thing sounds good..
Time will tell...

Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1347 | Registered: Nov 2011
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Member # 43420
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Swat,

I know how hard it is to hear about your WW being with someone else. For me it helped to get past the mind movies. Only you know what you need to heal during this process. I think you're right in trying make nice with your W. If YOU decide that you can't continue in your M when the cooling off period is over. At least you can say you gave it your all. To be honest Swat, there are many of us hoping and praying for your M. I pray you find peace and healing. I'm praying your wife finds true healing of her heart.

WW 40 (her)
BH 40 (me)

Posts: 63 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Southwest
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Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh SWAT I hope this helps you some. You still love your wife and since you do and she does this is worth fighting for. You both need therapy and some time but I really think you guys can work this out.

I kicked my husband out 3 months ago for keeping something from me. He works with XOW and I found out they sometimes talk and I just threw him out without finding out the facts. Well we are going to IC and we are dating again. We are falling in love all over again. I already loved him so much but this is making him really love me. He has a great IC also.

You love her still. You and I and everyone on here know how hard it is to love someone so completely. If there is still admiration than there is still hope. Good luck to you guys and enjoy those dates.

It may take a few weeks to get into the grove of things so just know it may take time. I'm anxious for our time together tomorrow and know soon we will be back home together.

For some reason these Waywards just have a hard time with truth.

Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2009
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Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At least she's willing to answer your questions as honestly as she can.
We don't even discuss it and when we do he gets defensive and it turns into and argument. With him saying some pretty nasty things to me with no remorse. As if he hasn't hurry me enough.
Hope it goes well for you both.

BS: 48 Me
WH: 46 him
DD 17 Ours
DS 23 Mine

DDAY 4/17/2013 my father's anniversary death date.
2013 to present: TT big time
9 more women PAs all of our 17 years of marriage. Never had a clue until TT in the last year. Showe

Posts: 112 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
OK now
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Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As others have said you can get a measure of justice by divorcing your wife then giving reconciliation a try. Move back into the family home with your wife and kids after the decree has been issued; she won't have the honor of being your wife, [I mean that sincerely] and you will feel that she to has suffered from her betrayal and that the pain hasn't all been one way.

Later on you can possibly remarry if your WW has changed and demonstrated increased maturity.

Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
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Member # 34041
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Swat, as much as they hurt the painful answers are a good step. It means she has stopped the lies. Now let's watch her, inconsistency, and see if she stops her narcissism. It needs to be no longer all about her. Today it wasn't.

Watch and wait.

sorry post on my tablet

Posts: 328 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: pricklepatch
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