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User Topic: The Unthinkable
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Member # 31946
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like laying low for awhile is a good idea. Once you get 50 real posts an investigation tip forum opens up.

Only you know what it would take to get you to D -

Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Washington DC
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Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IU Hoosier

Obviously you cant let her know about the VAR or it defeats purpose of it.
The reasons we all think there is more
(1) Was she not sure she was in love with you any more BEFORE she left on trip??? If answer to that is yes, she may have planned with girl in open marriage to hook up together with someone in Mexico. Did the husband of bad girlfriend know they were planning the secret meet up last week or did he just not care about what she did in Mexico? If he knew they were planning another week end, then he is complicit in this and you can assume she is still talking to the girlfriend who helped her get involved in this.
(2) You do not mention anything about her work e mail and the FB. If she is on FB and has not given you total access all the snooping is worthless.

And you can get the copies even if she is deleting things which she can easily be doing.

In my opinion, it is IMPOSSIBLE , absolutely IMPOSSIBLE, married woman who is not thinking of cheating already to go to mexico, and just kiss a guy and come home not knowing if she wants to be married. Until you get to the bottom of that you will not be able to resolve this and be safe and secure knowing whatever decision you make is the best for you.

She is showing NO REMORSE about anything other than that she was caught and is not concerned about making her main focus to at least making an attempt to repair your relationship at all. THAT SCREAMS LOUDLY THAT SHE IS STILL IN CONTACT WITH HIM.i HAVE NEVER READ ANY POST ON THIS BOARD WHERE ONE OR TWO KISSES HAVE CAUSED A SITUATION LIKE YOURS, ESPECIALLY IF SHE AGREED TO NO CONTACT

Lastly, with the exception of the last post, I do not believe there is anyone who is talking to you other than the last poster before this who is recommending you lay low and let things ride. You MUST keep ratcheting up the pressure daily without giving her a moments peace. She is not telling you the truth. i am going to keep telling you that

File for D and you will force her hand. If she is not lying, she is not going to let you go through with the divorce over a guy she is not in contact with anymore and she will see there are going to be consequences, serious ones for her. If she maintains her same attitude, then you did yourself a favor and the charade she is putting you through will be over.

Stay strong IU Hoosier

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
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Member # 43416
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Obviously I will not tell her about the VAR. I have looked at her FB and haven't found anything in the message area, but will keep an eye out for that. I have been looking at that account for a while now. I only have access to her work email when I go through her work phone, but I'm sure she would delete any messages if they were talking on that account.

I don't think I want to lay low and will keep on pushing for more information.

Posts: 105 | Registered: May 2014
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Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It bothers me that she is still acting this way after you have found out. It could be there is a different guy other than this Canadian. Something is keeping her in a very indecisive mode. And that something is usually words from some OM.

I will admit, I have no experiences with a long distance affair. But that certainly tells me she has to be communicating with him by means other than face to face talking. So the answer is somewhere electronically.

Your wife needs to learn to communicate much better. She really needs to explain her thoughts and actions to you much clearer.

When a WS is not explaining and everything is vague, it almost always means they are hiding something. Something much more than you have been told.

Vague is just another nice way of lying.

Posts: 4099 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not a techie, but in various places here there are references to programs or apps that allow one to voice communicate through data which is untraceable on the phone bill. As she's using a work phone, and as you noted in your early post, international calls cost money. Most companies monitor phone bills, just like they monitor internet use at work. Unless, of course, her company does lots of business in Canada so calls to and from wouldn't be unusual.

I'm thinking you should learn what those programs/apps are (Ostrich80 just wrote a thread on the topic to which I gave a flippant reply) and those who responded gave names of some of them.

Check the work phone for those programs/apps. If they are there, you essentially have your answer on whether communication is continuing or not.

Just a thought.

Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
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Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Looking at all deleted texts is a great idea and will give you some answers.

As for calls to Canada, I don't know if Canada is even considered international calls, I dont think so.

Posts: 4099 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Member # 43079
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi IU Hoosier, sorry your here. I gave this info to someone else too, not sure if you know about it or not. But :

Just a little something I discovered. If he/she does not "double" delete a facebook message it goes into a box called archived. My hubby didn't know this. So when he thought he had deleted her messages they just went to another box. Easy to retrieve from there. Just at the top of the box for messages click on the more tab and select archived. Hope this helps, in a good way, not a painful way.

BS (me) 42
WS (him) 48
OW (downgrade) 48
Married 11 yrs
DS 9
DD 8
D-day 10/27/13

Posts: 105 | Registered: Apr 2014
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Member # 43416
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No messages in the archived folder.

Posts: 105 | Registered: May 2014
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Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IU Hoosier

How are you two interacting at home. I am guessing you are not having affectionate interaction now. Is she acting aloof, mad because she knows you are watching her moves. Do you talk or just occupy the same space now.????

Also, is she just going to work and coming home, or has she tried to go out with friends without you there. Unless she is a total loner, someone is helping her or she is talking to someone. Very few people can go through this and just internalize it all completely. You have a ton of "friends" here trying to help you.

I am assuming she is not asking to go to couples therapy, so I still think she knows that the therapist will force the truth out of her or call her out on it if she is lying. They are good at that if they are a decent therapist.

Again, you know the one friend got pissed at her. IOf there are others who either did not want to get involved or decided to "be her friend" and condone it, then that is who she is talking to.

Unless you suspect that her feeling about "not being in love with you" preceeded the Mexico trip, then I am skeptical about another OM locally.

We could probably give you better advice if we know more about what she is doing, saying, acting. She cannot be existing in complete silence.

I am sure I do not have to tell you that you CANNOT allow any out of town trips by herself to go ANYWHERE. And if this Canadian guy is single, you also cannot accept any week end day where she is doing something that will take all day without you knowing and being able to verify where she is.

IU Hoosier. Look at the post total. It continues to grow because there are a lot of us who identify with your situation and are emotionally on your team. If you follow the good advice you get you will come out of this with your dignity regardless of whatever else may happen.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
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Member # 55
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Could she have other email addresses. Something like or a gmail address that you can find.

One thing that seems common when an affair goes underground is a second pay as you go cell phone. She could keep that hidden in the car or even her desk at work. Which of course would be hard for you to find.

When I was going through this, I found notes hidden in shoes and under the mattress among other places...I found a parking ticket in a tampax box of all places. The parking ticket sure told me where she was at least one day and time.

Hiding notes or phones numbers in the middle of generic papers was another place.

Sometimes my fww would forget she even had something hidden, in the glove box for one.

Posts: 4099 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IU Hoosier

Craigs post is important because it will show you how difficult it is to monitor all communication, even though you must try. She could have e mail addresses on ten different places, but get her cell records from phone company. She may not have thought of that.

This is why we are telling you to keep the pressure on because the burden now is on you to take all these steps to try to stay on top of this. You need to keep shifting the burden back to her. She is the one who has done wrong here.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Red Sox Nation
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Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If someone is determined to cheat, she will find a way. You caught this early on, before she had a chance to implement stealth worthy of a seasoned detective. From everything you've written, I don't think she's actively involved in an affair.

That's not to say she's blameless. What happened in Mexico was rotten. I don't mean to take issue with my fellow SI members here, but I disagree with a lot of this advice.

If your wife had met someone suitable for a long-term affair, it would be underway right now. She is undoubtedly looking. She took what was available with this Canadian guy and would have had a fling if you hadn't caught her.

She might well still be looking. I see the signs in what she has told you. My wife gave me the same speech, and I had full access to her email and I found a couple of email exchanges from the recent past that would have led to affairs if the guys were willing. I think she's searching for an exit affair.

Rather than playing catch-up and trying to make sure you know about a new affair quickly - and perhaps further alienating her in the process, I think your focus is better aimed at figuring out what led to this in the first place.

Your marriage is in crisis. If what you've heard and seen makes you feel divorce is warranted, by all means divorce. But if you use filing as a tactic to "get her in line", you risk losing any chance you had to save the marriage.

When someone tells you who she is, listen; when someone shows you who she is, listen carefully.

Posts: 1894 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Midwest
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Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree and disagree with Red Sox Nation. Agree she is not in active affair but she would be if guy did not live in Canada. He is geographically difficult and not viable especially since you would have to really be asleep at the switch for her to have multiple meetings with him now that you know about him.
What I disagree with Red Sox nation on, and most of us feel this way, is that she is NOT telling you everything that happened and until you find that out you will live with this woman wondering.
He is also correct in stating she is and was definitely looking to have an affair, and until you find out why, which is not forthcoming now, how do you heal???
Again, her sorrow now is that she was caught. Do you really want to live with that as the status quo just so you do not risk pissing her off.
You can't reconcile unless she also wants to and she needs to know you will not be waiting like a patsy for her to decide your fate.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
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Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One more tip. Canadian holidays are different. Victoria Day was recent. Thanksgiving is in October. The day after Christmas is Boxing Day. Dominion Day is July 1, I think. I think there' s something called Bank Holiday, too. You should look up Canadian holidays. And note them FYI.

I'm too lazy to re-read the whole thread, but wasn't some counseling going on before this shit hit the fan? Joint or IC?
With this overriding issue in the open now, I'd keep that up. You need all the help you can get in arriving at the truth or some semblance of truth. And you certainly need to know if both of you are invested in the M for the long haul. If it's over, better to simply say so and go about your business rather than the added hurt of an A. If it's not over, maybe you'll learn that, too..

Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
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Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Obviously, a marriage is in crisis if infidelity occurs. And obviously, an immense amount of discussion is warranted between BS & WS as to how the marriage got to such a low point, & how the WS gave themselves permission to betray their partner. A good MC can facilitate this.

But there is plenty of time for that ^^^, once you decide to R.

First & foremost, it has to be determined whether or not the A is over.
It is not clear whether or not Mrs.IU Hoosier has taken the A underground or not (her actions are not reassuring), & knowing that is crucial before IU Hoosier can proceed.

What he has already started to do is to set strict boundaries for what is & is not acceptable to him, in order for R to occur.
If he does not do this, for fear of alienating WW, he risks false R (where WW does not have true remorse, only regret over being caught, & plays the part to some extent in order to fence sit .)
IU Hoosier needs to be certain that WW is respecting his boundaries, before anything else is possible.

together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
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Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, May 22nd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too believe that she is still in contact with this joker.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is a burner phone. A pay as a you go phone.

I would look for one after she is sound asleep.
Purse, under the car seat, inbetween the matress and box springs. In her shoes, in an old purse in the closet, in the pots and pans if you never cook. Theres a million and one places to hide it.

She is still very foggy, and you seem to be just suffering through it. I would definitely go ahead and see a lawyer, don't tell her just do it. It will give you information, and help you to feel a bit stonger with all of this.

Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8684 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
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Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, May 23rd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Each day is hit or miss. Sometimes she is affectionate and we can talk and sometimes it's like she has a wall up and she doesn't want to even see me. This is the reason along with what a lot of you have said is making me think it's still going on somehow. It was seriously like a switch flipped after this Mexico trip. We never had any issues and everything was great. We would talk for hours every day and spend a lot of time together. I just don't understand how this can happen, but I know there is no explanation for it.

I got the VAR today and plan on using it in her car. I told her if she ever contacted him again, I would serve her the D papers. I don't want to hand them to her though now, unless I have some kind of proof that she is actually still talking, outside of guy feelings. There is a small possibility my gut is wrong. I haven't let up on the snooping though (Facebook, email, phones, car, & now VAR).

I have IC today, so at least I can decompress a little.

Posts: 105 | Registered: May 2014
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Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, May 23rd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading this thread with interest. Didn't buy the separating to clear my head spiel, it was more like the well worn wanting closure phase and true enough came the dreaded ILYBINILWY, my feelings for OM are much more than friendship, she's slowly escalating
a)Giving you a reason to push her out the door

b) Reconciling in her head that she needs to move out because this thing with OM is something she can't resist.

You keep holding firm and she'll push even harder, picking fights or being downright disrespectful and nasty so she can have her reason to leave.

An analogy. You can keep a junkie in a room but when they need that fix, they will break down doors to get what they want. She will push for separation even if it doesn't make any sense with time going by because you should be using that time to work on your issues and heal.

Posts: 188 | Registered: Jun 2013
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Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, May 23rd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IU Hoosier,

You are starting to get it. So far, no real effort on her part to try to rebuild your trust in her, and she needs to understand that is not going to happen in a few weeks.

Glad you also believe like most of us do that she is still in contact. You might try to backtrack on where she has been on the days when she barely wants to speak to you. my guess is those are the days she has been in contact with him. Assuming you are still on same phone plan where international texts or calls would incur charges, which alerted you originally, if she does not have a burner phone, then there are only a few ways she can contact him without showing up on your monitoring. The reason i suggest to try to backtrack her is she could easily use a girlfriends phone if she has any local girlfriends that she is close to. Remember, on her trip to Mexico, ONLY the one girlfriend made a stink. The others made the decision to be "her friend" by turning a blind eye. Any of them could be helping her now since toxic friend is ten hours away.

Most of the women who are posting here believe she is also in contact with him. And most research supports the fact that women will not go through something like this without talking to someone.

Your statement of "how could this happen" is very relevant. If everything was truly fine before she left, this turmoil in your life is not being cause by a few kisses.

You two obviously cannot go on indefinitely with you forever in detective mode and her pissed at you for stopping her affair. And stay as upbeat as possible. The geography is on your side. Unless you are within easy driving distance of this Canadian, you have to have a real mental lapse in judgement for her to physically be in contact with this guy again.

Remember, no ladies trips, no shopping trips, and beware of the old cheaters trip lie, that is i am going to visit my sick family member if her family is not where you live. If she tries anything like that you can count on him being there.

It is good you have reminded her that you will pull the trigger on D if you catch her. That keeps the pressure on her, which is where you want as much of it as possible.

One last thing on IC. I am hoping you are not seeing the same joker that suggested you give her a separation for a few weeks so that she could have her fun and see if she still wanted you. if that comes up you need to walk out of there.

Stay strong. Keep posting and venting to us. We know what you are feeling.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
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Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, May 23rd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi IU Hoosier,
I know this is not going to be an easy weekend for you, since nothing has really been resolved.

this turmoil in your life is not being cause by a few kisses.


You two obviously cannot go on indefinitely with you forever in detective mode and her pissed at you for stopping her affair.

We are here for you.
Sending you strength.

together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
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