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Just Found Out Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: The Unthinkable
craig2001
♂ Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Despite some overly negative comments, R can work fine. Many times the marriage is better than before mainly due to a better level of communicating and understanding.

It really depends on how a person is wired. Do you have an incredible memory. There could be triggers forever, due to a great memory. You might stop and think when she goes to visit family...only because you do have a memory now.

Much depends on the level of trust that is regained by the WW. If trust if fully regained, you might remember back, but you wont wonder because the trust is back.

Most of the R depends on how the WS reacts and acts. You already know that she has to completely rebuild trust, from zero right now to above 100.

She has to be able to understand and explain why she did this.

It depends on various factors. You could end up resenting her or you could end up loving her more than you do now.


Posts: 3512 | Registered: Jun 2002
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everyone is different.

We are 3 years out. I stayed for our 4 kids, to keep our family together. We have been in MC this entire time since Dday.

but I wanted to know if it ever comes back all the way once you R

It will never be the same again.
In some ways, our marriage is stronger. WH has done some of the work of R, but slow as molasses.
I will never trust him completely again.
Most of the time things are good. WH's A is always there, in the back of my mind, but most of the time I choose not to focus on it, but instead to focus on the present.
Someone else on this site once referred to this as the A being in the rear view mirror, but I keep my eyes on the road.
I still don't know if our R will be successful.
One thing I have learned from being on this site is that it is a process which takes a long time.
Sometimes it is not the actual A, but all the lying, lying by omission, TT, & failure of the WS to recommit right away, that is as damaging or more damaging than the A itself.


What your WW is doing now (& what she is not doing) is causing a lot of damage---maybe more so than "the kiss".
I know this^^^^from personal experience.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 9:04 PM, June 5th (Thursday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IUH

If you read what Mcheucheur just told you
"Everyone is different" there is no crystal ball on R
"It will never be the same" it sure Ain't gonna happen fast

You stated you know that is a LONG way off if it ever happens so I urge you to put that on hold until you get there.you need all of your emotional energy to cope with right now.

I hope your attorney has given you MC name. He or she knows why you have filed for D and must know therapist trained in this. You should start to think of what you need to find out specifically and what are the progress bars that she must pass in order for you to continue, and conversely what are the positions she may take that cause you to stop the process and go forward with the D. I urge you to prepare and give serious thought to this and not just go on and "wing it".
Don't be surprised if WW tries to say you were not fulfilling her needs and blame shift to you. That is common. Do not accept it! This is ALL on her. She was not perfect and you did not cheat. The MC will recognize this as bull shit.
Remember MC is subjective not quantitative, so ten MC could give you ten different opinions. You must be comfortable that you are getting answers. You may not like all of them but you must get them.
If she even gets to MC before you hear something on VAR that kills this, it is probably after each appointment that she will run to him if she feels she was pushed to hard or gets panicked that the therapist is zeroing right in where she will get caught in a lie.
You stated that you wondered if you could ever feel that every time she went away from you would you have that scared and sick feeling that she might find someone better. No one is better but only she can do something to start to build that trust back and it will not happen quickly even if she tries which she is not doing right now.
Only you will know if you can ever forgive her . All of us BS here giving you advice have entirely different situations and entirely different emotional compasses. Craig and I are probably at opposite ends of spectrum now on some of the things you should have done and are or aren't doing. Neither of us is totally right or wrong. We are just different and so Re you.
Please be super vigilent and don't doubt yourself. And don't mistake being honorable with being a patsy . You can be honorable but businesslike and uncompromising in doing a D if you decide that. Being Mr Happy Go Lucky is not required to end this honorably if you want to
THIS ON HER- YOU ARE HONORABLE ONE. HERE


Posts: 723 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IU - you might tell her what you just told us. Calmly, quietly tell her that you've tried to get her to stop talking to her boyfriend so that you can save your marriage. But now you're really starting to wonder if you can get over this. You're shocked that this could even happen. And you're starting to think what's the point? I mean, if that's what you feel. If she's not afraid of losing you, then why stay with her?


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 510 | Registered: Mar 2013
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IUH

Mike7 also gives you good advice. Her behavior is showing that she really has no fears or concerns of losing to or that you may decide you are done and mean it. The D papers had a short term effect for a few hours and her response was to just go do it again.
What Mike said is I think that you should make it clear before you spend a dime on MC that YOU IUH are not sure you can ever forgive her and that if her purpose in going to the MC is to either prolong the process or convince you to let her have a boyfriend then why not just end it. She must convince you that she wants to R and you will accept nothing less. And the last thing. I would say to her is that if you find out she is doing it again and breaking NC that you are not giving her another chance. SHE MUST BELIEVE you mean that this time or it is like playing poker with someone who knows you will never call their bluff. You can't win that game
You should tell the MC that the first issue that has to be addressed is that is she going to stop lying to you and end this A. That you cannot go through therapy with her actively still I'm this affair and her commitment to wanting to stop it has to be determined before other issues are addressed.
I know we all hope that is we do not hear from you over the week end that we do not get the same results as the last two Mondays from you.
Stay strong IU.


Posts: 723 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi IUH, How are you doing today?

I personally know how horrible limbo is---its like slow water torture. I am so sorry you are going thru this.

I am trying to imagine what is going on in your WW's mind right now.

We know that she is addicted to a fantasy fairy tale/ happily ever after story with Prince Charming. It is absolutely intoxicating for her.

On the other hand, there is the real, but not as exciting ,safe, familiar, every day life with you. You have always been there for her. I seem to remember that you stated in an earlier post that "she was the girl of your dreams". She knows you desperately want to work things out & preserve the marriage.

You said that you still love her. Actually, you love who she used to be, or who you thought she was. Take a good look at who she is now. She is a cheater. She took a vow in front of family & friends to love, honor, cherish, & protect you, forsaking all others. That means that you two are supposed to be a team--you two against the world. Then she proceeded to choose her own selfish needs over your welfare---in fact, she may have put your health in danger ( STDs), & she certainly has traumatized your mental /emotional well being .

You presented her with D papers, & that shook her up for a couple of hours, but then you backed off. What other consequences have you given her since then? She is still living under the same roof as you, so not much has changed in her life since before the Mexico trip, except that you two are living like roommates now.

It doesn't even matter to what extent POSOM is pursuing her, because in her mind, she is hooked on the romance. That romance really makes her feel good ----it is an ego kibble. She doesn't want to give it up.
What she doesn't see is that it is not real.
Why should she give it up, anyway, because she has not had any true consequences for her behavior.

She sees that you will just allow this to continue on indefinitely , hoping that she chooses you. You may even be thinking of doing the "pick me" dance to try to sway her & entice her back. You'll give her all the time she needs to figure this out.

This is called cake eating----she has the comfort & stability of home base, but gets to eat cake (Prince Charming) too. And it will continue on as long as you let it.

Just read some of the threads in General on Limbo, or go to the ICR/Support for BS in Limbo thread
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=415668
to see what the future will hold for you if you do not take action.

You need to make it less comfortable for her. Make her see what it will be like if she does not completely recommit to you & soon.

You might start by telling her that you would like to discuss plans of dividing up the household, etc.
Take the next step to show that this is not acceptable to you.

We have a saying here, that you have to be willing to walk away from the marriage in order to save it. In fact, sometimes that is the only way to save it. If it doesn't work, it was not worth saving.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW, IUH, I meant to ask you if anything came out of your telling her BIL what is going on.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 12:26 PM, June 6th (Friday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
IUHoosier
♂ Member
Member # 43416
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So she has definitely been more affectionate and asks how I'm doing more. She gets upset every time u ask her if she's broken her promise not to communicate to this guy and she responds with "every time you ask me that, I feel more and more trapped." She says, "NO", I haven't talked to him, but your not making it easy. Not sure what that means or what I did, but I told her she has to realize I don't trust her anymore.

My BIL answered my email, but it was more of a "how shocked he was". He said he never would ever assume this would happen to us, because he thought we were always so affectionate and happy with each other. He actually said that he would expect something like this from her younger sister, but def not her. He didn't have much to say, because of the shock he said. We will see how it progresses.


Posts: 99 | Registered: May 2014
Schadenfreude
♂ Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Odd response, unless she's struggling to try to not think about him.
Or not telling the truth so she feels trapped by her own lying. There probably isn't any good way for you to tell what the reason is.

Any MC scheduled? Don't procrastinate as each day you do you're still in Limbo and she has more opportunity to reach out to him.

BIL's reaction is probably much more subdued that his wife's is going to be. The phone will be burning up and no doubt your W won't be real happy since this will be further "trapping".
Just respond by telling her that the M should be more important to her than what her sister thinks at this time. And, after all, you haven't been spreading lies. Nothing but the truth, whole truth, etc.


Posts: 743 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
saveus
♂ Member
Member # 43251
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She gets upset every time u ask her if she's broken her promise not to communicate to this guy and she responds with "every time you ask me that, I feel more and more trapped." She says, "NO", I haven't talked to him, but your not making it easy. Not sure what that means or what I did, but I told her she has to realize I don't trust her anymore.
This rings a bell with me. Slightly different words, but the same message.


Me: BS/38
Her: WS/37
Together: 15 years
Married: 7 years
1 amazing little boy, 5, the love of our lives
D-Day 1: 14/4/2014 (EA/one night PA)
D-Day 2: 30/4/2014 (sexting/PA longer & ongoing)
D-Day 3: 4/5/2014 (earlier PA, another OM)

Posts: 253 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: UK
Jduff
♂ Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So she has definitely been more affectionate and asks how I'm doing more.

Perfect time to do this. Go get a copy of "Not Just Friends", then give it to her. Tell her "You want to know how I'm feeling right now? Read through this. It describes where I am exactly."

If she is genuinely concerned about where you are, she'll at least pick it up and start reading through it.

Otherwise, there is no genuine concern at all about your welfare. Just concern where everybody is in her fantasy script.

I still contend that MC is a waste of effort. I see no description of remorse in this thread, just "adoptive" behavior as the fantasy script continues to be written. Just be aware that if you find yourself talking about yourself more than WW does about herself in the session then you are probably getting "handled".


Me- BS (44)
WW (41)
DS - 9, 12
M - 16yrs

Divorced - 5/23/14


Posts: 398 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
IUHoosier
♂ Member
Member # 43416
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We both moved out to our current city 5 years ago when I got a specific job. She doesn't have any friends out here that are just "her" friends, like she had in college or her hometown. All of her friends are GF's or wives of my friends who I work with. This what she says is her big resentment towards me and why she feels "trapped."

I honestly have always pushed her to join clubs and other activities that don't deal with me, because I do believe there should be a desperation between man/wife and you shouldn't spend 24/7 with each other, but she has always been a little why about doing something like that.

One of her bogus execuses for this A, was that it was a nice escape from this. I told her if she wanted to move closer to home or to another city where college friends are, I would have gladly done so, especially if I knew how upset she is claiming to be.


Posts: 99 | Registered: May 2014
brokenblackbird
♀ Member
Member # 29541
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She is justifying her actions by blaming you. Victim blaming is abusive.

She actively made the choices she made. There won't be true remorse until she owns and understands that.


Posts: 722 | Registered: Sep 2010
blindsided14
♂ Member
Member # 43266
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm convinced that, with her statements about you not making it easy for her to maintain NC, she setting the stage for blame shifting break of NC and that she's already decided in her mind she's going to scratch the itch and get her fix (not b/c innocent old me wanted it but b/c controlling and oppressive IU pushed me to it).

She's already rationalizing her next broken promise in the alternate reality she's created for herself.


Posts: 56 | Registered: Apr 2014
Schadenfreude
♂ Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is this new information? Or a long-standing complaint? Whatever, it could be a preview of what she thinks is important to discuss and dissect in MC. Its really long-term stuff compared to the three alarm fire she set off in Mexico. Don't let her monopolize the agenda. Tell the MC that none of that matters if the M fizzles out right now due to her infidelity/indifference/lack of remorse or even concern.

My opinion on her issue: boo hoo. Good thing you're not career military and moving every 18 months between deployments.


Posts: 743 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IUH

She was dong the same thing to you before she called him that the night you woke her up and she confessed that she had called him again. And on top of that she is now giving you an indirect threat that if you press her too much she will call him.how can you accept that statement and want to address her problems.
Your next question should have has he called you. Her response should be that she has no idea because if he is blocked that would be her answer. If she is agitated she might just blurt out "no" and there you would have a quick answer if she is lying.
So here you are worrying about her problems and her major concern is that you are asking too many questions and that if she feels trapped she just might reach out to him. Translation is Ill do what I want and you are not going to do a thing about it because you want me as your wife so bad that you will put up with whatever I dish out. Where is her concern about the way you are living every time you walk out if the house not knowing if today is the day she decides she needs her OM fix.
This MC is going to be a long drawn out process. You are not going to solve it in one session with anyone on earth or two or three sessions. And the threat she implied to you will be the same for the MC. If she is pressed to much she will do the same thing.
Is she telling you she is so sorry for the pain you have been caused. She has no clue about the VAR . How about the pain you had to endure listening to her conversations with a man who is trying to steal your wife. Asking you how you are does none of that.
And to top off the disrespect she is now trying to justify her actions by telling you she feels trapped. Well you moved there five years ago and unless you quit your job tomorrow she's going to be "trapped" for a while. So she better find another outlet for her anxiety.
If you do not up the ante here a little bit like Mchercheur just stated to you you are on big trouble. You should start with this statement
"Don't ever threaten me with that of I press you you will run to him. You owe me answers to any question I ask" ,.
And by the way she is now calling her one kiss am affair. I still believe you will get another kick in the balls on that one.
Sorry for the tough talk but she has absolutely no fear of you doing anything further on the D right now as long as she has you hooked on going to MC.
NO REMORSE whatsoever


Posts: 723 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She is justifying her actions by blaming you. Victim blaming is abusive

AMEN.

She is manipulating you, and playing you like a fiddle.

Don't ask me if I'm breaking my marriage vows, you are making me feel trapped.

Stop do you realize how insane this sounds???
She is happy to keep the status quo and manipulate you, she doesn't have to change much in her world, and she still has someone to blame for all her unhappiness.
Thing is, and something most of us learn in this process regardless of the outcome, and that is each and every one of us is responsible for our own happiness, and if you wait for someone else to make it for you, you will most definitely be hurt. That's why there is always such a push for 180 on here it is for no one but you and you alone. To help you find your strength, your center, and to give you direction toward your path to happiness.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7795 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yep, it is still all about her.

She doesn't seem at all worried about the marriage.



together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
IUHoosier
♂ Member
Member # 43416
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what more should I do? I'm all ready pushing as hard as I can without her jut shutting down. I'm going through with the D papers. I have the VAR. She says she's not talking to him, but then theeatens if I keep pushing, she might. Which I reply to with "then we are done and I will never talk to you again." She cries, blah blah


Posts: 99 | Registered: May 2014
Tom67
♂ Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Badhurt and tushnurse are spot on in my opinion.
Please do not take this the wrong way.
Stop for now asking anything related to the affair in a cheaters mind you look weak and makes the other man look stronger, again in her mind. I know easier said than done but act like your happy and you don't give a sh!t.
Fake it get some new clothes and a hair cut.
Go out a few nights a week don't tell her where.
The point is make it look to her that you are moving on.
Believe me she will be wondering WTF.

Posts: 100 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
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