For some reason, you want to keep making excuses for her and think the proper course is to plead do whatever she needs to be happy and for him to live like a mutt
IUH is doing the right thing at this time. He has filed, and he is watching carefully and deciding about MC.
There is nothing else he can do. As for throwing her things out of the house...maybe he doesnt feel like making an idiotic scene at his home.
Maybe his lawyer told him not to throw her out.
[This message edited by Badhurt at 8:57 AM, June 7th (Saturday)]
every time you ask me that, I feel more and more trapped
When we accept a life path that includes marriage for love, we are trapped, in a sense.
As long as she sees marriage as gilded handcuffs, she can't begin to do the work necessary to repair trust.
I read a lot of stories on SI. Most of the time, I don't see how the marriage can be saved. Yours is one of the few I think can be saved. Just not yet.
I'd give her space. Not in the sense of either of you moving out - that's basically admitting defeat. Just in the "we have some time while the legal process is ongoing, but we can't begin to reverse that course as long as you feel there's any reason to make me feel you would ever contact this person again."
If her decision is to hold contact with this guy as some sort of threat over your behavior, well, yeah, nothing more you can do but divorce.
But I still have hope. Maybe having her siblings involved will get her to see this was never about the OM but about her attitude toward marriage for love.
IUH is doing the right thing at this time. He has filed, and he is watching carefully and deciding about MC. There is nothing else he can do.
First of all, correct me if I am wrong IUH, but you have had divorce papers drawn up, but she has not signed them yet,& they have not been filed, right?
You can continue the divorce proceedings
(have her sign the papers, tell her she should retain a lawyer, have your lawyer start the filing process, sit her down & start talking about how does she want to divide things up, etc.)
BTW, this takes time, at the minimum, it takes several months. She has that time to turn this around & start showing some remorse. & if she doesn't, then why would you want to stay with her anyway?
She's unsure whether to stay or go and is keeping IUH on hold -- she just doesn't want to have to think about it now. If she's keeping NC pledge-who knows if she is-- she hasn't completely checked out. She is, as far as my readings here tell me, the only WW who appears essentially indifferent to what will happen. And that's the strange part.
Read the thread MC is addressing EA Monday in themGeneral section. He's in further than you are, and what's offered as advice applies to your situation.
Has she started antidepressants? Upped the dose? How do you explain th e seemingly calm 1:00 a.m. Call to OM? You'd have thought she'd be crying her eyes out and seeking solace in his words. That didn't happen. Rather, it seems she was seeing if he'd comfort her voluntarily.
IUH needs to get some idea,of,the why whether he divorces her or not for his,own information. He can't wait indefinitely, or even long. But if she just disappears, he'll never know why or how it happened.
I think there is something wrong with her supratentorialy (the tentorious is the bone at the base of the skull) that predates Mexico and OM. IUH doesn't have to wait around for that to be fixed, but it sure would,explain her fascination with some guy 3.5 hours away who she barely knows. Throwing away a marriage for that, without the usual signs of mad passion, is beyond just strange. Could be sign of deep depression or who knows what.
So, atomic warfare confrontation today or tomorrow accomplishes what if IUH wants to save the M? She's doing the bare minimum of what he wants. If counseling session fails, bail. If not, see what happens. Making sure NC is in effect.if not,,bail. This isn't a medieval jousting duel for the fair lady's hand or anything like that.
[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 12:02 PM, June 7th (Saturday)]
How about commenting on how it is working out for him
He has filed. Has that improved her behavior ?
Okay, that was discussed while others said he wanted to watch her and couldn't do that if she left.
IUH appears to be a patient person and has already said he will try MC only if his wife stops talking to the OM. I do not know how that worked out, because he hasn't said.
Maybe you're right. Tell her to leave with her belongings and see how that works for her. She can then decide on her own if she is going to quit her job and move to Canada or OM can move to the US and she can support him, his other girlfriends and his X-GF's baby.
That might stop the affair or end the marriage right then and there.
You didn't read far enough on the profile. Yup, i did get a divorce, but right from the beginning when that was in the process here's what i also got
(1) total transparency begging me to check available way she could deceive me again.
(2) a daily log of where she went when I was out of town that I did not have to ask for
(3) telephone calls in FRONT of me telling every person that was involved in the mess that she never wanted to hear from them again.
(4) she quit her job to get away from the toxic people
(5) Two years of gradually R begging me to give her another chance which eventually occurred. All of the above happened BEFORE there was any joint MC.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, I never got a statement that if I asked any more questions she just might try to do that again. ALL my questions were answered and I got nothing but apologies over and over again for doing what she did to me.
DO YOU SEE ANYTHING LIKE THAT HERE!!!
ITS CALLED REMORSE WHICH IS AWOL HERE BUDDY.
Just wanted to fill you in on a few facts about the statment you made stating that all i am interested in D. And by the way, if you read Mcercheur's post you should know if he moves to the next step in the D process it will take months, so for the third time i will tell you that IUH should NOT cause a major scene but he SHOULD have her sign the D papers so she has to get an attorney, he SHOULD do EVERYTHING in his power to track her since she refuses to be honest, and then MAYBE he will get at some point to where MC might do something for him. Living with the threat he is under with her attitude is not an option I would recommend and simply getting over the finish line to the MC date is NOT the goal here according to IUH. The goal here is to have her her OUT of this A IMMEDIATELY and UNCONDITIONALLY AND TO PROVE TO THIS MAN SHE WANTS TO BE WITH HIM AND ONLY HIM, not for him to have to beg her not to keep this POS on back burner while all this is going on just so he can call himself married. And when he catches her contacting the OM again, and HE WILL
but probably not until his guts are taken out bit by bit for a little while longer, are you going to recommend he just forget about that too and be patient.
So yes, from what I have seen, right now the answer to me for IUH is TO MOVE forward WITH THE d AND knock HER OFF THE FENCE FOR GOOD ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
[This message edited by Badhurt at 6:06 PM, June 7th (Saturday)]
"I just miss you so much and want life to be back to normal again."
"I really screwed up."
"I'm so sorry from the bottom of my heart. I'm so broken and hurt and I know I hurt you too. I just want to be happy again."
What is this?
Almost certainly an attempt to get you to agree to rug sweeping. "Just go back to the way things were"
Progress, though. Very real progress.
[This message edited by redsox13 at 9:27 PM, June 7th (Saturday)]
But to be texted three times with positive texts is a good sign.
OM might have figured out it was too much work for him and dumped her. I'd be interested in her logs to se if he called, or if she called him before,this text.
Don't ignore the reach out. Why she texted I have no clue. It's not exactly intimate means of communication.
Look up rug sweeping in healing library and be VERY cautious. The easiest out for her is to have you forget this clusterfuck ever happened and to be forgiven without further consequences. There's something wrong inside her whether marital issue or not that needs to be exposed and destroyed. Or you will pay the price or worse in the future.
Or, she's minimizing in advance of MC. So the C concentrates on HER issues with you. NC plus attempt at R equals not a three alarm fire right now. But what if she's just figured out how to go deep underground? Keep your eyes and the discussion on the A. Don't drop the divorce on this thin reed.
Sorry to be back and forth, but her actions are confusing at best. I don't know if you can explain to her that regret isn't remorse, that apologies aren't the end of R process. Saying I screwed up and I want to be happy is a positive step, but hardly a reason to declare that all is well. Hell, I want to be happy,,and so does everybody else. Maybe a good lead in to broken trust/regaining trust discussion led by you. Don't forget what her "secret " texts said early on. Happiness without trust is a fools paradise.
On the positive side, at least this isn't flat indifference like she was showing before. And that's the major positive. Your M seems to matter somewhat to her, even if your happiness is currently secondary to her own feelings. You don't ow her any apology as you've been consistent and fair. I hope she's not expecting some sort of apology from you.
Finally, do you know whether her sister called her? If so, that might be the source of the sudden showing of some common sense.
You should go home tonight sober.
PS added later. May 28 posting of yours says she said same thing about I screwed up and don't want to lose you. It's June 7 today. Less change than I thought until I re-read this long thread. It not like she's offering much new. Be careful. Read the Myth of Sisyphus after googling it to,see where your hell may be.
[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 10:37 PM, June 7th (Saturday)]
The other guys got it right. It could be good sign BUT seems interesting it seems like all of a sudden lightning bolt hit . She"s obviously not with you tonight so I think one of a few things happened and I'll give them to you in what I think is best possible order for you:
(1) she actually on her own realized this little A wasn't really gong to go anywhere long term . I don't really believe chances are great that occurred.
(2) family or friends convinced her what an idiot she has been. Not in one conversation.
This is a good sign but she did not get there on her own and OM is still out there . I think slightly likely because I don't think other than toxic girlfriend that any of her friends at home there, most of whom she knows thru you have been encouraging her. Probably your allies on this.
(3) she had a lover spat with OM on phone. Your last VAR intercept indicated she got jealous when he talked about spending week end with his ex. Her VAR conversations may give you indication if that happened and if it did she already lied to you and broke NC. If she broke NC and told POS it was over and not to call her anymore it is a bit different than if she broke NC just to call him and it went bad during the conversation. I think this could be the most likely trigger of the textsIf this occurred either way she lied to you again
(4) since you were not with her when you received these texts out of the clear blue sky, DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHERE SHE WAS. The worst possible scenerio is that the POS came down there last night and she met up with him. There are a lot of stories where WW just has to "make sure" and does something really stupid just to get closure for herself. If you have no idea where she was all night when you were out with your cousin, given the history of this thing and all the unanswered questions, it is NOT BEYOND THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY. When you left the house things were awful. SOMETHING HAPPENED, you just don"t know what yet. She was not watching TV and this suddenly hit her. And when she texts 'I really messed up", strange when hours before her attitude was totally different. If she JUST REALLY MESSED UP" what does that mean that it did not mean earlier in the night/
It would be a blessing if you get that on VAR or some conversation of her telling someone what happened.
But like Mike and Red Sox said , you need to find out what caused this before celebrating. They were right on in saying actions speak louder than words. I don't think anyone needs to remind you that three days before she was going to meet OM behind your back she was texting you on way home how much she missed you. When you presented her with she D papers , she cried and told you she just wanted you, and them the following Sunday night before you woke her up she had called him without telling you. If you had not woke her up you still would not know that. And then Tuesday last week she could not bring herself to break it off with him by phone and email and since she does not know about VAR you have no proof that that has been done.
So you still I think need to be real careful and make sure this is not an attempt to rug sweep and get you to say ok lets just forget it happened. She should be willing to answer your questions whatever they are because I don't see how you can just move on and get closure without knowing everything that occurred. YOU DO NOT want to find out later there is more like she did have more sex ( and she did not just kiss him without her hands on his dick or worse and his hands you know where). You need to know this in order to determine if you still want to be with her and it will be just another betrayal if this comes out TT later. All of the damage she has done to you with the lying since she returned has contributed as much to your situation as what she did if it's true.
So if I were you I would anxiously try to get my hands on that VAR. I would NOT tell her it's there.
And I certainly would not run home and say honey I'm so happy and I forgive you. There is still a very good chance that you through confession, questioning, or MC that you are going to find out some more information that is VERY hurtful to you.
A couple of the other guys have told you that this could amount to just another line of crap.
It will be interesting to see how she reacts when you start again asking for explanations of things .
There can be NO just moving on to her issues and bypassing what she has done. The MC is going to be a long process if you do it but I still do not think you should rush right in there before you get a reasonable period of behavior focusing on your healing through information, and that you are sure the texts actually mean something this time. . Remember it has been less than 5 days since she could not tell OM it was over . That has to be done and you have to believe it
[This message edited by Badhurt at 8:08 AM, June 8th (Sunday)]
The hardest part of dealing with infidelity, is to put your heart and emotions on the back burner. But this is exactly what you need to try and do.
You need focus. You need strength. Optimism...like what your WW just sent you in a text...might seem like the most important thing---but this is not always the case. What you need to right now is CLARITY.
Don't get me wrong---those texts may be the beginning of realization for her. But what is critical here is that you don't read too much into those texts. Right now, you are looking for the (2) most basic needs to try to move forward with your WW---NC and a verbal commitment to you and the marriage. That is the minimum starting point that is necessary. I know that your WW is confused, but that gives her no right to drag you through this misery. If you were guaranteed a reconciliation, I am sure that you would continue to withstand this disrespect to you and your marriage. But that is not the case, so you have to act accordingly.
Like mike7 stated, these texts may be authentic...and maybe not. But let's take it as the truth for a moment. Ask her, if she meant what she texted(she didn't even say these words to you), is she willing to send an NC letter? Is she willing to change...or minimally...block his number? Will she give you the verbal commitment to try to make the marriage work?
If not, do those words really mean anything?
Try to be as calm and emotionless as possible. It exudes strength, and that is what you need to show her. She needs to not only hear, but to see and feel, that you are not willing to continue down this path.
And that, my friend, is not pushing her away. That is not giving her an ultimatum that "traps" her. It is merely giving her the facts...and an eventuality.
All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D
Are you SURE she had not just come from a meeting with POSOM, & the guilt hit her?
I think she is hoovering.
"I will do anything, IUH, to help you heal from this. Just tell me what you need me to do."
"Come home now so I can make the NC call to POSOM in front of you."
[This message edited by mchercheur at 9:05 AM, June 8th (Sunday)]
What has she done since then to make you be certain that her A is completely over, & that she has solidly recommitted to you?
The quote McCherheur just gave you came from the text she sent you TWO days before her week end tryst was supposed to occur as she was on the way home. TWO days before she would have spent the week end in bed with him.
Something has occurred here, and I am willing to bet it some thing to do with OM. He might have dumped her but this is just too fishy to be something you should be delirious about.
I hope you can answer Mcchercheur"s question that you knew exactly where she was for sure when that text came to you.
I would just proceed with extreme caution, and let's see if you start to see some willingness to engage you to help you get some answers.
If you have had the time, look at the thread from SWAT, and you will see how damaging it can be to head towards R and get whacked again.
[This message edited by Badhurt at 10:45 AM, June 8th (Sunday)]