p.s. sorry if I have the wrong person who did the 3 day. I don't know how to go back and check and I'm using my not so good memory.
[This message edited by sadone29 at 8:52 AM, June 27th (Friday)]
I don't want to speak for Determinata. I don't think she was overly impressed with her SAWH after the workshop but it may have had more to do with him than with Dr. Magness. Why don't you post your question in General?
You may also want to look at some of Dr. M's videos. He also responded personally to email questions from me, surprisingly. I think he is tuned into the trauma of spouses and has a direct and realistic approach to SA.
I'm not questioning your IC, I'm really not. It very well may be in your case that there was some attraction to him because of your issues. And certainly, you need to learn more about your own self in order to heal. But, to me, that edges uncomfortably on "blame the victim," and I'll tell you why.
I, too, was told I "chose" to be in a relationship with an addict in order to work out unresolved issues about my addict mother. However, he wasn't anything LIKE her at first, he became that person, so unless I had a time machine, or somehow caused or could predict his metamorphosis, the theory sucks. Now if you ask me if my FOO explains why I put up with the nonsense, that's a horse of a different color
Secondly, I know too many people who had nearly perfect childhoods, without major trauma or dysfunction and STILL wound up with addicts of one sort or another. Psychologists will turn themselves inside out to explain that, but the simple fact is, we cannot predict, nor control the actions of another, and addiction happens in spite of our best efforts to avoid and contain it.
[This message edited by scaredyKat at 8:25 PM, June 29th (Sunday)]
In counseling, exploring my emotional turmoil, the counselor has stated that many women married to SAs seem to attract them due to their own emotional quirks. It seems my history (paternal abandonment and molestation by stepfather) has created a emotional soup that somehow made a connection with my husband's emotional soup.
The women that I've met in real life who married SAs do not have this sort of background.
And I know women (and men) in real life who had terrible childhoods, yet they are happily married and they are wonderful parents.
I had a dear childhood friend visit me this weekend, and she said she and her husband and other friends have all discussed my STBX and what a 'wonderful guy' everyone believed him to be. Not one person thought he was anything but a great and loving husband, including me. I will never know what changed, or even if all of his craziness was there the entire time and carefully hidden. But I do know that he fooled everyone. I've finally accepted that it wasn't MY fault I married him.
It's always good to work on yourself, but really, the problem is your spouse when it comes to SA! Please don't let anyone distract you too much from that. You see, if you start believing that you are the problem, you are feeding right into the addict's wishes. You are distracted, blaming yourself, and probably not seeing the whole picture, which allows him to whitewash and manipulate you.
Take good care of yourself. You have a long and hard road in front of you. If you don't love your therapist, you can always find a new one - or get a second opinion.
For me, it was always very comforting for me to have someone (usually STBX) tell me that things were all my fault! You see, then I could fix those things. I could work harder. Be better. Go to more therapy and talk about how I would fix everything.
But at the end of the day, things were all up to STBX. I could run around in circles trying to be perfect, but really he and his SA were running the show. I was powerless.
[This message edited by ChoosingHope at 8:46 PM, June 29th (Sunday)]
For me, it was always very comforting for me to have someone (usually STBX) tell me that things were all my fault! You see, then I could fix those things. I could work harder. Be better. Go to more therapy and talk about how I would fix everything
This, along with something else that happened, struck a nerve. How true it is! And how very characteristic of an SA! Master manipulators as has been mentioned before, even, if I believe to be true in my SAFWH's case, it was all unconscious, a way to make himself feel important and alive. I was just the available scapegoat.
He was always telling me how much he sacrificed to marry me. From day one. So, I bent over backwards trying to make it right, to give him opportunity and material things that enabled him to continue his single lifestyle. Of course, it was never good enough, and later, he used those very activities as excuses for his many, many absences.
Hope, you are absolutely right. Our job is to heal from their abuse, and other life trauma. We DIDN'T CAUSE THIS. They did.
My CSAT doesn't 'blame me', just opens my eyes to the emotional soup that I respond to.... men needing someone who is willing to turn a blind eye ( ohhhh so blind as not to see any red flags)to behaviors that make up SA. I never saw anything. I never looked and I TRUSTED my husband. There is truth in my seeking out a 'broken' man. Not that I asked to be married to a SA, but I recognized the hurt, the need for help in my fSAWH. I have this need in myself. Birds of a feather and all that. Not saying this y'all's case, but I recognize it is mine.
(((((Womaninflux))))) crapola. Did he give any reason for this?
Take care of yourself. That is a big lesson I learned through all this.
My SAWH is one of those who did the 3 day intensive. It provides a lot of great tools from what I can tell, though it is not a panacea. I don't find much fault in the program, only in the person who chooses to not work it. BUT I am not an expert in it--deliberately. I've read some of Magness's work and decided that I was done being an expert of the treatment of sex addicts. I'm not one and there are other things I need to spend time on. Pros: Husband now is doing step work; has a CSAT; attends SAA meetings regularly. Cons: It has not even remotely 'fixed' all of the things wrong with him and it cannot.
His trauma model with regards to the betrayed spouse is, I believe, good and compassionate. There are women in my 11th step COSA telemeeting group who have attended and they said it was revelatory and life altering. Most have done years of therapy and they say that this has been much more effective than anything else they have tried. Sending my best to you.
So an update / vent, everyone:
First, my baby has been having some worrisome symptoms and I am taking him to a neurologist today. If you are the type to pray or meditate or so forth, would you please send up a thought for him? He's the sweetest little guy in the world and I'm so worried for him. I've been holding it together but inside I am a nervous wreck and now that it's the day of the appointment, all my fears are streaming out.
It just seems so unfair. For him to be possibly seriously ill. For him to have this worthless sex addict father. I'm so sorry my poor baby. You deserve so much better than this.
For me, I've been offered an interview for a position I thought I wanted but it's in finance and the hours will be long. Apropos of my son's health situation, I'm feeling guilty and horrible at the thought of leaving him. On the other hand, if he is sick I will need the income more than ever. Ugh.
With regards to the SAWH, I sigh. He's gotten a CSAT (only took 7 years) and a sponsor. He's doing the steps, I think (again, only took 7 years). But he was supposed to give me an update about his recovery work and we were supposed to discuss our separation on 6/21, the 90 day mark for our separation. He wasn't prepared so I pushed it back 1 week and he still wasn't prepared. I asked him why he was not getting ready for this meeting and he said that he felt like only bad things come out of these talks so I told him it was canceled altogether.
These meetings were supposed to be an opportunity to review whether or not he was making progress towards rejoining our family but since he doesn't want that opportunity, why should I sit there for hours having a conversation that neither of us want to have?
So he was resentful that we were having this 90-day check-in and now he's resentful that we are not having it---although he's the one who blew it off, despite multiple reminders and requests that he get ready for our discussion. So now the focus is back on all the ways in which I'm inadequate--I'm rejecting him; I'm not supporting him; he feels so distant. He's supposed to be making a fearless moral inventory of himself but instead he's using his failure as an excuse to fixate on me and my 'deficiencies'.
The newest twist to this is that he claims to be feeling suicidal. Well guess what? If you want to leave a potentially chronically ill infant and a currently unemployed wife with nothing, not even life insurance, then what can I say? He's on multiple antidepressants (to kill libido, not because he's ever been diagnosed as depressed) and sees two therapists plus is in SAA and SMART recovery. I'll be circumspect and say that I'm well aware of all of the advice regarding people threatening suicide seriously but I'm not getting reeled in to his mind games.
On the disclosure front [TRIGGER], he still hasn't finished his disclosures but the body count is up (surprise, surprise) and as an added bonus, I now know he was performing oral sex on prostitutes while he was supposed to be working overtime.
And every day that instead of working recovery he chooses to feel sorry for himself, the more I detach and the less I care.
I don't love him anymore. And except for my, and my son's self interest, I don't consistently care about his well being either. These years of trickle truth and anger have just killed all of my goodwill and tenderness. A year ago, despite the fact that I was pregnant and had just learned that my husband had untreated and undisclosed HPV, I really loved my husband. But he has just consistently earned his way into the scrap heap.
He didn't want to take me to the hospital when I was in labor with DS for reasons that I suspect had to do with him wanting to be at work because he was trying to act out with a coworker. He fantasized about my delivery nurse while I was giving birth. He masturbated in bed next to me the night I was discharged from the hospital and ejaculated on the sheets. He was "hurt" that I told him that he had to sleep elsewhere so he moved to the couch. He then ejaculated on the couch in a masturbation episode. He claimed that this was all happening in his sleep. But despite this being "involuntary" when his doctor put him on antidepressants to curb libido and he was angry at me about that. He fantasized about my son's pediatrician to the point that he misheard the diagnosis of his milk when he 10 weeks old--and thought he was allergic to soy instead. He has frequently gone out with me and DS and had his tongue literally lolling out as he stares at women on the street. He has spent months fixating on child abuse he suffered before the age of 6 and despite having confronted his family about it and received multiple apologies etc., he feels he cannot move beyond the abuse--which basically means he is emotionally stuck at the age of a 3-6 year old. He vacillates between behaving like a sex zombie or a huge, gross petulant child or, on occasion, a responsible adult. And I am just over it. I may not be able to afford to divorce him legally but emotionally, I'm through. And honestly, it's the best I've felt in a long time. I recognize he's my parental coworker and the rest is just the detritus of a marriage I used to cherish.
What I struggle with most is my regret over having my son. The fact that he may have genetic abnormalities and that his father is a self indulgent whore-fucker just makes me wish I'd terminated the pregnancy. To be clear, I LOVE MY BABY and he is PERFECT to me. He just deserves better than to have health problems and a sex addict father because I don't want him to suffer. I don't ever want him to be in pain and I don't want him to ever have to know that his father has behaved like a depraved monster. The guilt I carry for choosing to have my son is something I struggle with daily. But I'm trying to keep my head up and just enjoy being with him.
Sorry for the novel but it's been awhile since I've been on the board. I hope everyone is doing much better.
[This message edited by determinata at 3:41 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)]
6 years of TT, hidden STD & false R
Separated 5 mos+; he will not commit
Someday I will be okay
Your honest appraisal will help you deal with what is to come regarding that precious baby. I'll be holding you in the **********LIGHT*******†*