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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-13
determinata
Member
Member # 42124
Default  Posted: 5:49 AM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is so sad to me how many people need this thread. Bumping for newbies.


M 2007. DDay 2008
~10+ CL Prostitutes in 8 months
Divorcing SAWH "ActionsOverWords"
Me: Early 30s BW (also an adult OC) w Baby DS

6 years of TT, hidden STD & false R
Separated 5 mos+; he will not commit
Someday I will be okay


Posts: 288 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Those of us who have lived with an active addict often wonder how and why we put up with abuse for so long. Many of us were strong, independent people prior to the advent of the abuse. In my case, SAFWH was not abusive in our early marriage, and I do not think he ever did it purposefully. Addicts find all sorts of reasons to justify their bad behavior.

Once the abuse starts, we fall into the abusive cycle. He yells, insults and tells us all the reasons he didn't come home, doesn't want to have sex with us, went to that bar, etc. That is often followed by a few days or weeks of "love bombing." He's so sorry! He didn't mean it, he was stressed at work, he was feeling bad about his life, you are the best wife anyone could ever have (well, except for that annoying habit of questioning him about missing time or money) and he will never do/say it again.
Except he does. An this time, you are the one telling yourself that he doesn't mean it, he's just stressed, he is feeling bad, blah, blah, blah.

Our self esteem becomes destroyed. We can't tell fact from fiction. He controls us with his threats and rages or sulking. Your kids see this and LEARN HOW TO EMULATE IT. Or act out in other ways. This is the dysfunctional life of an addicted family, and why the experts call us coaddicts. NOT because in any way caused their cheating but because we are so profoundly damaged by their actions. Even after recovery and sobriety are well established, IF THEY EVER ARE, residual damage remains. I am a daughter, sister, mother and wife of addicts. It is a lifetime effort to learn appropriate and healthy responses.

Love and LIGHT to all of us.


Me-BS-60
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 3774 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
WabiSabi
♀ Member
Member # 43489
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm overwhelmed by this other world. I just don't have that kind of darkness in me to identify with this. It makes me mad that I have to figure out the messed up world inside my fWH's head in order to protect myself and my children. And I'm developing a deep hatred for my H's FOO. His mother calls me periodically to see how her precious son is doing, because she's worried about him. Couldn't care less about meÖI'm just a female he married. Men are what makes the world go round and it's my job to make her alcohol abusing, sex abusing, domestic violence abusing son happy. I just want to scream at her what a giant monster she raised that thinks women are objects put on this planet purely for his entertainment. I'm so angry at myself for letting almost three decades of this pass. I hate my H's family for all the years of treating me like a second class citizen and I hate my H for not listening to me every time I complained privately to him about it. Then in another way deliver his own brutality to me. I'm so angry. The only pure and beautiful thing I have in my life are my children. I once was pure and beautiful. I swear to God I will be again.

Posts: 116 | Registered: May 2014
WabiSabi
♀ Member
Member # 43489
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

scaredyKatÖ yes!!! My page only showed determinata's post, because it had been up since early this morning. After I posted I then saw yours. Yes!!! Yes!!! Yes!!!

My fWH has a serious sex problem. I don't know if he's an addict, but he abuses things. Deeply abuses themÖ alcohol, sex, his sexual fantasies, demanding my physical perfection, his entitlement, his ego, grandiosity, superiority, charm, obsessions, intensity, hobbies, spendingÖ everything he does is the size of the state of Texas. Including sexting his little personal whore nurse compulsively every second of the day, all day long, fired up even more if he could do it on the sly while his wife and children were sitting next to him, masturbating out in the open on the sofa with the family home getting a thrill out of the danger of the risk of getting caught. Fired up with the power of silently saying fuck you to his wife and her moral boundaries. Sexting his personal "on call" whore while my son sat waiting with his birthday cake full of lit candles. He can love me like no one else. Berate me like no one else. Destroy my self esteem like no one else. Love me again like no one else. Have contempt for me like no one else. Save me from this awful monster "he used to be" like no one else. He slayed that wretched beast. Never again will he come back. Swears it on his life. Whatever.


Posts: 116 | Registered: May 2014
determinata
Member
Member # 42124
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

scaredyKat,

Yes and yes and yes to everything you said.
STBXSAWH (look at that alphabet there) cannot update me on his recovery from playing with his penis, pornifying women and stalking and paying hookers is going because "he's too angry." He sulks and rages and then tries to play the superior because I am upset, hysterical, etc.

Why is he angry at me? Did I perform oral sex on a prostitute then come home and kiss him? No, that's him. But he's angry at me for not being his demandless automaton, enabler, sexbot and now nanny for his son. Okay, I completely understand your rage. How could I make demands for empathy from someone who feels none?


M 2007. DDay 2008
~10+ CL Prostitutes in 8 months
Divorcing SAWH "ActionsOverWords"
Me: Early 30s BW (also an adult OC) w Baby DS

6 years of TT, hidden STD & false R
Separated 5 mos+; he will not commit
Someday I will be okay


Posts: 288 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Shocked  Posted: 2:30 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What follows is a bit of Addiction 101. But I have to tell you, that despite the fact that I believe fully that this is a true addiction, similar to gambling, I don't accept any theory that absolves the addict of responsibility for their actions. Any addict that refers to "their addict" in that manner is, IMHO, removing themselves from the equation, denying that they had anything to do with their shitty actions. Again, I'm speaking only from my experience as wife, mother, sister, daughter and sanon member.

The current belief about addicts, is that they become emotionally arrested at the time the primary addiction begins. They never grow up beyond that point. They cannot form adult attachments, adult relationships. Sex addiction is thought to be the FIRST addiction for many people. A young child, faced with stress at home Will self stimulate to sooth. This is normal, but can become compulsive. As they age, the compulsive will have a harder and harder time with RL relationships. And of course They need more and more extreme measures to achieve the same level of sexual stimulation as "normal" sex isn't enough anymore. So, if you buy this idea, SAs are stuck as very young children. Hence the temper tantrums, sulking and pouting that is so common!

This was true of my SAFWH. His family was relatively normal, but he was painfully shy, had an emotionally unavailable mother and father, although outwardly supportive, and an older brother who was noisily rebellious. His escape was to retreat. On the surface, it was a successful family, no obvious stresses, but an undercurrent hard for him to live with. He had none of the outward abuse I dealt with, but no way to cope, either.

Your SAWH's may or may not have experienced similar or worse things. But it isn't up to you, or within your power to fix it. I couldn't make up for his distant mother, but he did his best to blame me for her disapproval and indifference. And I tried mightily.

My SAFWH was/is an addict. Each day he has to consciously choose to do the "next right thing," (although, he isn't in imminent danger of relapse as he may have been in early recovery.) An addict will find a reason to use when none exists. The women are only the fix, nothing else. They defend them just as the meth head defends his stash.

I'm with NG, Hope and others. Unless an addict has YEARS of recovery, and is still active in his 12 step group, don't have kids with him. I won't say never, because I do believe in redemption. And simply don't stay with a SA unless they are working a program AND are working with a CSAT. The risks to you and kids is too great.

If you are married, and have kids, Hathnofury has an amazing guide for dealing with financial realities/post nuptual agreements. It wasn't an issue in my case.

And, get help for yourself. This isn't a trauma that you can conquer on your own.


Me-BS-60
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 3774 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Determinata...hugs honey. I've been following his thread. I think you SHOULDN'T know about his extraneous activities. Regardless of whether he isn't telling you "because he's angry" or any other reason, I truly think you need to completely detach. I get that you need to know some things he is a care taker for Baby, but details SO disk your peace of mind. He has so,so many pathologies to overcome..

Ask only the minimum. Is he sober? How many days, etc. Just what you need to insure safety for Baby.

My opinion, obviously. You are sounding so much healthier.


Me-BS-60
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 3774 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
MadOldBat
♀ Member
Member # 44146
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Derterminata - sending you all my online powers....
Why is he angry at me? Did I perform oral sex on a prostitute then come home and kiss him

Good luck to you my darling.

[This message edited by MadOldBat at 6:47 PM, August 5th (Tuesday)]


Trying to keep my chin(s) up

Posts: 128 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: United Kingdom
Lostandnumb
♀ New Member
Member # 44380
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading your posts l.... Felt like it was my life. Heart broken and shattered by unraveling all my husbands lies. I am sorry this is happening to so many people. Including myself

Posts: 4 | Registered: Aug 2014 | From: Illinois
PeaceLove187
♀ Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something unusual happened on vacation with my FWH and I hoped you guys could shed some light on it. First, my H never sought counseling so hasn't been diagnosed as SA but both my prior therapist and I believe he is somewhere on the SA spectrum. Second, I'm still with him because he has a disease which is progressively disabling him and he's already at the point where a PA would be nearly impossible(he can't walk or drive and I'm with him almost all the time) and I see no evidence of anything online. If he is SA then he's white knuckling and chances are good the disease will take him before the inevitable relapse.

Now here's what happened--a female friend had joined us on our last night of vacation and was sleeping in a cot several feet from our bed. Soon after we'd gone to bed my husband started caressing me in a tender, romantic way and we shared several passionate kisses. Before things went too far I asked if he'd forgotten the friend was right there and he responded that she was asleep. The thing is this kind of romantic attention is totally unlike him. He's never been much on caressing and since he's been disabled I can't remember a time when he initiated romance. Possibly he was just relaxed and feeling romantic but I know being caught during sex was one of his fantasies so of course I'm left wondering how strong the impulses still are.

Is this something a normal man would do? Is this typical SA behavior?


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 59
Married 35 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 642 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
OnlyDo
♀ Member
Member # 41991
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It sounds like the thought of being caught is a turn on for him. It's a turn on for a lot of non SA people as well though. Does the idea that he's still SA bother you if you know he's unable to act out? It seems you've accepted the idea that his body is the limiting factor, not his desire.


me BW 55
him SAWH 39
19 yrs, 2 kids
Multiple D days Sep 2011 - Jan 2014
EA's, PA, Craigslist, Backpages, strip clubs, lap dances, camgirls, "massages", prostitutes
Separated, heading towards divorce

Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2014
PeaceLove187
♀ Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, the probability that he's SA does bother me. It's distressing that he tried to draw me into acting out sexually with him. He can't live by himself so I won't leave him unless he resumes his A behavior but I still struggle with this. I try to remember he didn't choose to be SA (if that's the case) but he also hasn't done much to fix it.

I actually believe he wants to be a good husband, if only because his time is limited and he wants to go out of this world as a good person. That doesn't mean the impulses aren't still there though.

Thank you for your response, OnlyDo.


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 59
Married 35 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 642 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
OnlyDo
♀ Member
Member # 41991
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You're a more accepting spouse than I am. My SAH hasn't done much of anything to fix himself either, though he constantly talks about how hard he's trying. "What, what have you tried?!"

I nursed him through a couple of surgeries, but only because I didn't know then what he was up to. He's since told me about having to warn the "ladies" to avoid the surgical wounds while I was still helping him get dressed in the morning. ASSHOLE


me BW 55
him SAWH 39
19 yrs, 2 kids
Multiple D days Sep 2011 - Jan 2014
EA's, PA, Craigslist, Backpages, strip clubs, lap dances, camgirls, "massages", prostitutes
Separated, heading towards divorce

Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2014
PeaceLove187
♀ Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes--your H sounds like he's still being an asshole. I know that hurts. But no--I'm not more understanding, I'm just in a slightly different position. Experience finally convinced me that sexual compulsions don't go away, they just get suppressed, but as long as he's suppressing them then I won't leave. I have no illusions that would last forever but he doesn't have forever. It's just hard to be as loving as I would like to be when I'm convinced he's not being honest about his compulsions.


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 59
Married 35 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 642 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
determinata
Member
Member # 42124
Default  Posted: 1:10 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PeaceLove187,
At the risk of being unfairly generous to your H, I want to say that a lot of SAs have little idea as to what their deviant / prurient interests and motivations really are. So for instance, he may not tell you that the exhibitionist impulse is what was driving but he may not be fully aware of it himself. Self knowledge, even sexual self knowledge, is usually an issue for sex addicts. To me, it sounds as though the friend sleeping over was an acting out trigger, possibly. But whether he's lying to you or to himself is a different sort of question.

I'm sorry you are here.

-D.


M 2007. DDay 2008
~10+ CL Prostitutes in 8 months
Divorcing SAWH "ActionsOverWords"
Me: Early 30s BW (also an adult OC) w Baby DS

6 years of TT, hidden STD & false R
Separated 5 mos+; he will not commit
Someday I will be okay


Posts: 288 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
meleanoro
♀ Member
Member # 6210
Default  Posted: 1:30 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with determinata : there tends to be significant normalization internally on the SA's part. Because they have so integrated this way of being, usually from a young age, they not only do not see their choices or thinking as deviant, but also lack any objective viewpoint to question their reality (self knowledge). To a certain extent this is common among humans: we tend to generalize our thinking and experiences, even subconsciously. But this shows up far more distorted in an SA.

My husband truly, fully believes, to himself, his actions and compulsions are what all men (who are "real" men) do/are. Despite his recognition he has a dark side, he doesn't correlate his dark side with the sexual choices he makes. To him, sexualizing all women is normal, and I'm asking him to suppress his manhood. He doesn't see links between his choices, and things like stressors in life.

Once we as partners truly understand all this, it becomes painfully apparent the massive commitment and work the SA must do if HE wants to change. How he can even begin to take an objective stock of himself is a huge, huge, huge undertaking. None of this is meant to excuse him and his choices, but rather be another PSA for spouses/partners on the reality on what recovery looks like, and why he often can't tell his head from his rear when it comes to communication. And while we can be compassionate, we need to decide how much of ourselves we'll sacrifice to his problems.

It's not our roles to fix that or him. The only change that has a snowball's chance of permanence is change motivated by HIM--out of a desire to know a different way of being, coping, living, and relating.


Me: Tired BS.
(I frequently edit for typos)

Posts: 290 | Registered: Jan 2005
gotcha
♀ Member
Member # 44304
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So my husband and I got into an argument the other night when I told him I didn't want him to watch porn anymore.

His argument was "I'M A MAN. YOU WON'T F ME. WHAT'S WRONG WITH LOOKING AT PORN!" I asked him why couldn't he masturbate without looking at porn? I'm sure he's done it before.

I said basically that considering I believe he is a sex addict and that is progressive in nature, soon porn won't satiate his needs, and his cycle will start again.

Said in the words of a true SA, he's not giving up porn. YOU CANT TAKE ALL MY PRIVACY AWAY!
Yuck this is getting ugly.

Hugs to you all.


Me - 27 BS
Him - 26, SAWH
DS, 9 months
Married Aug 2013, together for 6 years prior
DDay- June 25th 2014
Countless backpage escorts in 1st year of marriage, pre-M affairs and flings (just finding out), web cam girls, you name it.

Posts: 188 | Registered: Jul 2014
OnlyDo
♀ Member
Member # 41991
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PeaceLove, don't forget that this is your only life too. None of us live forever.


me BW 55
him SAWH 39
19 yrs, 2 kids
Multiple D days Sep 2011 - Jan 2014
EA's, PA, Craigslist, Backpages, strip clubs, lap dances, camgirls, "massages", prostitutes
Separated, heading towards divorce

Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2014
PeaceLove187
♀ Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DeterminataóIím well aware that expecting self-knowledge from him is like asking a pig to play a guitar. Thatís one reason why Iíve refrained from discussing things for the past six months or so, because I finally got it through my thick skull that Iím never going to get a helpful response from someone whoís so deeply entrenched in his own self-protective thought processes. His rare moments of clarity were accompanied by such a high level of self-pity that I honestly thought the muscle spasms caused by his sobbing might screw up his breathing enough to kill him. And Iím not being overly dramatic, because thatís how this disease normally kills its victimsóby stopping the diaphragmís ability to bring oxygen into the lungs.

MeleanoroóAs I said above, I do recognize his lack of self-knowledge and Iím sure that affects his more run-of-the-mill A behavior. His brother did the same kind of stuff and that helped give my H permission, plus I suspect whatever FOO issues drove his brother to act out sexually also impacted my H.

OnlyDo & everyoneóYes, I know this is my one life. And if he hadnít made some major changes then I wouldnít be here despite his disease. Slowly but surely he has backed away from all of his SA-type behaviors (at least until the last night of our vacation) and I havenít even found any porn use since almost a year ago. Iím pretty good at detective work after all Iíve been through so I donít think heís hiding anything, although of course I can never know for certain. As weak as his hands are, I donít think he could masturbate if he wanted to. Life is a compromise and while I still get flashes of the old self-absorbed him, I also feel he cares about me and wants to be a good husband. Iíve read that justice and mercy is a dividing trait among people and that each of us fall along a spectrum of caring more about one than the other. Iím a mercy person and I cannot be true to myself if I leave a man who needs me so much when heís not doing any of our deal breakers.

I daydream about a future without our history hanging over my head, though, and feel guilty about looking forward to a day when heís gone and I donít have to carry this burden. Honestly, if he would only admit to be driven by his compulsions then I believe my burden would lift. Itís just hard to be loving to a man who would rather blame our marriage for his behavior than blame whatever was screwed up inside him. He does say itís his fault for choosing the As instead of talking to me, but thatís not the same thing as blaming his screwed up head. I think thatís one reason I keep obsessing over this. I keep replaying the reel in my head that proves this wasnít a lonely man looking for love. People looking for love donít immediately claim their spouse magically changed to perfection as soon as they were caught (As he did, even though I never changed and Iím still the same wife he was always married to.) People looking for love donít videotape women in parking lots for their sexual pleasure. I know that. Why canít I just accept that his thought processes are bullshitóor that heís bullshitting himself--and move on? As you guys said, I donít think heís capable of the kind of self-knowledge that would allow him to admit the truth. Iím obsessing over something heís not even capable of giving me. Arrrggghhhh!!!!!!

[This message edited by PeaceLove187 at 11:13 AM, August 18th (Monday)]


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 59
Married 35 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 642 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
gottabeabiggirl
♀ Member
Member # 44120
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its looking highly like if my WH isn't a full on SA he has a great deal of the tendencies of one as well as some extreme impulse control issues and some OCD.

We are trying to reconcile, the last week he has really "gotten it" and started doing everything he should have from day 1. I broached the SA topic, which greatly offended him at first but when we came around he admitted he thinks he has a lot of the tendencies of one and agreed to talk with his IC more about it this week after doing some research himself.

My question to all of you if is it possible for a SAWH to recover and to have a healthy marriage? I know the internet and books have told me it is but what about actual experiences from people living it in real life? What is a realistic recovery plan to outline?

I'm doing a lot of reading and trying to figure it all out but was directed here as well so thought I would post.

EDIT: I should mention he hasn't taken anything fully PA yet but its getting worse, and from what I understand if its not gotten under control it WILL go further than just porn and EAs. Just my situation doesn't seem near as bad as many of those here, I am so sorry for us all though.

[This message edited by gottabeabiggirl at 5:58 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]


Me - BW 25
Him - WH 35
No kids

Met - early 2006
Started dating - 12/06/06
Moved in together - 02/2007
Engaged - 2/14/13
Married - 10/26/13
DDay - 4/24/14
(EA with, IMHO, an attempt to turn it into a PA. OW wasn't interested and told me)


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