6 years of TT, hidden STD & false R
Separated 5 mos+; he will not commit
Someday I will be okay
I unknowingly did this in the early days, way before SI. Started to live my life as though he wasn't going to be part if it because, well, he told me in a fit of rage that he didn't want to be. It scared him to see that I could and would do it. Didn't solve the problems, but then again, I still didn't know what was going on. I did it again when I discovered the porn, when the words "sex addiction" were first used. I began to work my own recovery, and prepared to leave him in the dust. His sobriety began then. His slips were few, and none involved other rl women. He knew I was serious because I was.
I'm slowly trying to do that, live my life without him. My son and I go out and do things that I would normally not do because he would be at work, unable to do them with us.
Last night we went to an outdoor movie/music thing in town. It was great.
Tonight we'll probably go enjoy some live music and put out a blanket.
I told my H where we would be. He thinks I have a boyfriend (wtf!!?).
Yes, I'm cheating on you... with myself. I just don't think he gets the big picture that I am really serious. As my therapist says, he hasn't hit rock bottom yet.
He got into a road rage incident yesterday when I was on the phone with him. He was yelling back and forth with a woman. This is very triggering for me because (1) I don't like being around angry people or expressions of irrational anger (2) One of the first completely over the line things he's ever done in front of me was to yell at a woman in parking lot that she was a "fucking c***" which was a level of misogyny I'd never seen him display before (3)He's driving a work vehicle while doing this, which means he's endangering our household's only income (4) When he is angry at a woman he either fantasizes about seducing her, raping her or telling her she's unfuckable since we are all just walking vaginas to him, which is obviously disturbing and (5) The last time he was in major road rage and I was with him, I was 8.5 months pregnant with DS. He left me holding a heavy box while he argued with someone whose driveway he was blocking. I strained my back and ended up with severe chest pains due to the stress. Well, he was no longer talking to me so I hung up. I called him back to see if everything was okay later on and we ended the call.
My takeaway: He has a lot of work to do and the yelling at me, cursing at me, is not about me. It's about him.
His takeaway: I should have backed him up in his anger because the woman he was yelling at cut him off at the gas pumps. This is just like every other failed promise I've made and every other way I've abandoned him, like when I promised him that he could always ask me for anything he wanted sexually and I would always do it but then "turned on him" and told him no ONE TIME when he wanted oral sex and I was asleep. He "went out on a limb" and "made himself vulnerable" by asking for oral sex and I rejected him and hurt him and ruined our sex life by telling him that I didn't want to perform oral sex and that was why he needed to go outside of our relationship and have sex with CL hookers. And this is all just a continuation of his childhood, where his mother never backed him up or supported him either. Marriage is supposed to be standing by your partner's side at all times, no longer how wrong they may be because the essence of marriage is agreeing to anything your spouse says.
So to review--
- Nothing is his fault.
- Everything reminds him of sex.
- Sex reminds him of childhood.
- My feelings / needs /experiences / triggers do not occur to him because he is focused on replaying the blame-sex-childhood loop over and over again in his head.
We had a reasonable conversation about this but the whole thing is just . Sex addiction is really an illness of mental processing.
I'm working on detaching. I have some sympathy that he is so crazy but really there's not a lot of interaction one can have with someone whose worldview is so bent. He acknowledges that how he feels is crazy (now)...but he still feels that way. Ugh. I really wish I had picked a better, safer, saner mate.
[This message edited by determinata at 9:34 AM, August 16th (Saturday)]
Detach, detach, detach. As long as he has you to blame he isn't going to make progress. He, too, hasn't hit bottom.
I see SO many parallels to my story, to my SAFWH'S thinking. The details don't matter the process does. Kids and finances. I get that you are worried about his job. Reschedule your interview. There is a real possibility that he is going to do something that causes him to lose his job or winds him in jail, or worse. YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THAT, OVER HIM, OVER HIS ADDICTION.
Control what you can. Yourself, your baby, your reactions to his insanity. Detach.
[This message edited by scaredyKat at 4:52 PM, August 16th (Saturday)]
Are we married to the same person? Ha.
Most of what you said reminds me of my H, except the c*** thing.
My H always says "I never have his back." In instances where I think his actions are extremely unwarranted, no I will not have your back. I will tell you when I disagree with you and you're embarrassing me.
And this is all just a continuation of his childhood, where his mother never backed him up or supported him either.
Now I'm sure we're married to the same person. Is it bad of me to absolutely HATE his mom? I hate her. She ruined her only child's life by being such a terrible parent. He has such abandonment issues/support issues it's unreal. He still fights for her love and attention all the time. Thank god we moved 700 miles away from her. I can't stand their crazy, psychotic relationship.
I should've followed the old adage: You can find out a lot about a man by the way he treats his mother.
ADDICTS WILL FIND A REASON TO USE EVEN WHEN THERE IS NO REASON TO USE.
It simply doesn't matter. You can have the best parenting or the worst parenting and become an addict. That isn't to say there are precipitating factors, but addiction simply is.
Nine children in my mother's family. Her father was an alcoholic. I suspect one brother in addition to her. She had four children. Only one is an addict (in recovery long term) My two sons, one is an alcoholic, (in recovery) the other is fine.
But the damage, the dysfunction is obvious. In many, probably ALL the family members to some extent. Addiction is a family disease for more than the genetics of the issues. It causes wide spread trauma to all family members.
The last time (that he's admitted to) my SAH paid for naked female company he explained that the holidays had been "really stressful". This was DURING false R.
Dang my heel broke. Guess I need to get laid.
What? The milk is past it's date?! I'm out of clean socks?? It's Wednesday... again?
The world is full of challenges I never even thought to use illicit sex as a cure for.
Now, my H does use stress constantly for his reasoning... Oh and his work schedule. My retort is usually... Ok, well quit and go work at Walmart for all I care!!! He always says "you don't understand how hard my work is on me."
Oh ok then QUIT. I think if he worked an 8-5 he'd still make the same argument though. He's a spoiled little brat who never had a real job until he graduated college, only like 3 years ago. He'd better get used to it in my opinion.
My family has a history of alcoholics. My mom is an addict, constantly addicted to either pills or booze. I don't think I have the addict gene.
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So relieved and happy that you are cancer-free.
What are you doing to celebrate? You should do something to celebrate! My DS has a long journey in front of him to determine whether he has a genetic condition and when he cleared his first appointment, we celebrated in style. I know bad news might come next week or month or year but there was no bad news that visit and we partied up.
I am so sorry your husband forgot about your appointment and has been ignoring your DD in favor of communing with God. It reminds me of my husband, who has lately discovered Christianity. It's like, "God doesn't want you to listen to Christian music half the night then treat me like crap in the morning." What in the Bible / Quran /Torah / Tao Te Ching told you you could do that?!
Can you do something special with DD to maybe lift her spirits, too?
I'm still doing my awkward happy dance for you.
[This message edited by determinata at 10:35 PM, August 16th (Saturday)]
Determinata your stories are such illustrative lessons, especially for the newer people here.
The level of self-pity, victimization, inability to cope with normal life stress--all of THAT is as much, if not more (for me) psychologically harmful than the sex crap itself.
A gentle reminder for those newly spinning with revelations of their partner's lunacy: there is 100% no point, reward, or progress to be made in attempting to have a logical conversation, or convince them to see your point of view, or try to point out their flawed reasoning.
As determina's story well illustrates, it's like talking Hindi to a toddler.
[This message edited by meleanoro at 12:00 AM, August 17th (Sunday)]
I'm feeling so relieved. I had fears that I wouldn't be able to move forward because I'd become even more dependent on him. But I am healthy!
I haven't had time to celebrate. H is gone on a business trip for 6 days. But being on my own has been a nice break.
And a nice break from the Christian music!
I'm so happy to hear about the news about your son! I hope the good news keeps on coming!
The more I detach, the more I can see the bigger picture. I really was lost in this relationship. So lost that I began to believe his not so subtle attempts to make me believe that I was sick too. If anyone remembers my posts from earlier this year, you'll see that I was completely convinced that I was an alcoholic. He wanted me in a 12 step group so that we could go through this change together. The truth is, I would buy a bottle of wine every 2-3 months and would have one or two, nothing more. I'm not going to let him try to drag me with him anymore.
And sure, people can label me as codependent. What that means to me is that I put up with way too much and didn't value myself. So, the solution to me is to develop healthy self esteem after it's been beaten down. I need to stand up for myself and love myself more than this marriage.
I'm tired of his and his sponsor's agenda to label me as sick. As far as his SA goes, I did nothing wrong. I never asked for this. The more I see, the more I'm able to let it slide off my back though. The more they push, the stronger I stand on my own two feet. I am still an outsider in my own marriage. First it was OW, for 4-5 fucking years. Now it's groups, sponsors and Jesus. I know when I speak to H, I speak to his sponsor too. So I don't talk very much anymore.
I refuse to give up any more of my personal power. I see what it's done to H. He no longer makes any decisions without asking his sponsor. If he can't get a hold of him, he'll flip a coin and believe God is telling him the answer. I can appreciate that it's what he needs right now. But it's not what I need. I'm so happy that I recognize that now. I feel a freedom I haven't felt in a very long time. I look back and remember the person I was when I first met H. I was pretty strong willed and feisty in those days. I have become a shell of the person I was, but I know I can find myself again.
Anyway, thanks to anyone who read my rant of the day!
[This message edited by sadone29 at 8:24 AM, August 19th (Tuesday)]
It's too bad for him he's chosen to demonize you in the process. I too, was paranoid about my alcohol use, I drank WAY more than usual in the early days, but my own boundaries stopped me from continuing that. Sounds like you did the same.
Codependency is just as you described, IMHO. Addicts are great at molding us into that person. You sound very clearheaded on who you really are. You will be able to become her again as your detachment increases.
It's still hard, but you are stronger for understanding the reality.
I am obviously at a distance but your H does not sound like he is in recovery. I think the spirituality component is important when it helps make you whole again. But some people in 12 steps just seem to develop a religion addiction on top of their other problems!
Maybe start thinking about getting your ducks in order so you have more choices. I seem to recall career training/re training was going to be helpful to you. Retrain in something that is in demand, with a good, steady income. Don't sell yourself short in this department. If there is any way to swing it, including a slower divorce process, find a good field that you enjoy and invest the time/money in training in it. Just my two cents over here. :)
It is scary to start over. It's funny how fear takes over and latches on to any excuse to not move forward. For a long time, I didn't want to do anything that would get me unstuck. I didn't want to look for work, because that would mean I was giving up on my writing and my dream of becoming a published novelist. I couldn't have that!
It may take me a bit longer to attain that goal, but that doesn't mean I have to give up on it.
There are other things I've been running away from. I never got that STD check up. I set up an appointment and canceled it. I so desperately wanted to believe that he was telling me the truth that there was no need for it.
As soon as the kids are back in school, I will be getting that check up. I'll be speaking with a lawyer and I will find all resources available to help me find a good job.
There's one thing that I'm still unsure of. Do I let him know what I'm doing? It makes me sad that he still has hope. It still hurts, since I do love him still.
I'm no psychiatrist/psychologist/therapist, but I feel like I struggle in pinpointing exactly what brought my H to SA. Was it his depression? manic depression? FOO issues? Is he actually bipolar?
I read the article. The only thing is that he does not have insomnia (that I know of or that he's ever complained of).
This quote hits the nail on the head though
If your spouse has a bi-polar diagnosis, or may have been misdiagnosed with depression ( Bi-P typically regard their hyper-mania states as normal - and it is the depression they blame for their problems, where as family and partners know different) it is completely typical for them to self-medicate on alcohol, drugs,spending sprees, sex, risk-taking & inappropriate behaviour.
He has been diagnosed as manic. Definitely self mediates on alcohol, drugs (although not really, as alcohol is his go to), definitely spending sprees, and sex (ie inappropriate, risk taking behavior). He says his SA is triggered by being drunk/alcohol, as he has never contacted a prostitute when sober (which has been backed up by phone records on my part, so I know this is true).
So in essence, his problem, and one that he will fully acknowledge now, is double in his opinion. He wants to drink, and then that leads to the sex addiction.
So thank you for posting that, it would have never crossed my mind to consider him bipolar. My mother is bipolar and also struggles with alcoholism (and abuses any other medicine available to her at the time).
Oh, yeah, BTDT. I feel you, MOB...don't forget to take care of yourself as this gets sorted out. Not that it is ever completely sorted out...