He is struggling because he always said he could never stay with someone who cheated.
I can personally relate to this.
Take special note of what you have pointed out here. I'm going to guess that this is a personal principle of his. This is part of his core system of his beliefs or code of ethics. Having to consider R with you is challenging him to go against this, and that's challenging him to change that part of who he is. Whether that is a good or bad thing is up for him to decide, but for you it is a high personal standard of his by which your efforts of personal improvement has to overcome. He has to see you are worth for him to consider bending one of his principals to give you another chance. But that isn't the only reason to R. Just but one of many to ponder.
Divorced - 5/23/14
Are you seriously asking why he is upset?
He just looked at me, shook his head and walked away.
he is again depressed, but I don't know why.
Are you really that dense? You do remember fucking his boss...right? Then a few weeks ago, lying so you could sneak out to meet him again?
So yeah, SWAT is gonna be *kinda upset* for awhile. Like, a year, or five.
If I did or said something wrong that triggered him, shouldn't I know about it?
When are you going to get this? You are a trigger. You don't need to do or say anything.
He told the kids good night and went into his room.
Wait, you didn't ask him if he was angry with you in front of the children, did you?
Reaction 1: WW asks did I do something wrong. Did I do something to upset you? Did I say the wrong thing? Did I trigger you?
Reaction 2: WW says, you look like youíre hurting. How can I help you? What do you need? Can I get you anything? Iím so sorry that my actions cause you pain. Do you want to talk, or do you need to be alone?
Question, what is the difference between the two reactions?
Reaction 1 is ALL about the WW. I I I I I. I need reassurance. I need acknowledgement. I need engagement. I I I I I
Reaction 2 is all about helping the BH. Itís about validating what heís feeling, offering help, offering an apology that acknowledges his pain, seeing what HE needs.
Itís the difference between self-centeredness and nurturing.
D-Day, June 10, 2012
You do remember fucking his boss...right? Then a few weeks ago, lying so you could sneak out to meet him again?
Something my BH has always said to other BHs:
It's not surprising you're angry sometimes. It's surprising you are not angry all the time.
Remember when I told you that even when he seems like he is doing ok, it's always there underneath the surface? It won't take much to make him angry, depressed, distant.
Always choose reaction number 2.
Reaction 2 is all about helping the BH. Itís about validating what heís feeling, offering help, offering an apology that acknowledges his pain, seeing what HE needs
You haven't even begun to scratch the surface. Neither of you even can begin to understand the levels of hurt that are waiting to emerge. Shoot, I'm almost 4 years out and still learning just how deeply my A has effected our lives. This takes years. And only with a shit ton of hard work.
I know that sucks, but that is the way it is.
Skan's advice is perfect. Try not to ask why, just ask if you can do anything.
Even if you do everything absolutely perfectly, there are still going to be (many) times where he is angry, funky, distant, and a whole lot of all around bad feelings.
This is not an evaluation of you. It does not work like this: I did 'this' so he immediately felt 'that'.
It works like this:
I hurt him extremely badly, and he will remember it for years. Sometimes just like it was yesterday. Sometimes everything may be going fine, and then he will be feeling badly (and badly doesn't begin to describe the feeling) because he remembered the horrible hurt I have caused him. I cannot prevent him from feeling this pain -- I already missed that chance, I can only try to help him through it.
Sometimes he needs space, probably from YOU. More than anything, YOU remind him of the woman that cheated on him. Sometimes there will be nothing you can do to help him because you are the very source of his pain.
For the time being, a good response any time you see him upset, is to say "I am so sorry for the pain I have caused you. What can I do to help you?" Don't even ask why he's upset.
Sharing with you may also be a trigger. I know you both agreed to have some more open conversations, but asking him to trust you is probably way too much right now (and probably for the next 6 months at least). And asking him to spill his innermost feelings to you is the same thing as asking him to trust you. I know you want him to be that vulnerable with you, but it just isn't going to happen until you've accumulated enough trust in a 1000 other little ways.
[This message edited by saturnpatrick at 10:10 PM, May 29th (Thursday)]
Ok, I sort of get what you're saying. SWAT was fine in the morning and then in the afternoon he was upset but he didn't talk to you about why and you can't read his mind so you're wondering what the hell to do. How are you supposed to know how to help him if he doesn't talk to you, right?
You know what the rollercoaster is don't you? One minute SWAT is doing ok. The next minute he's angry and cold, he won't talk to you, he can't even look at you and you don't know what happened in between.
Here comes the 2x4. SWAT is never 'fine'. What you did eats away at him for every second of every day. He thinks about it constantly. He swings from seething rage to gut wrenching pain to complete numbness throughout the day, hell sometimes he feels all that in the space of five minutes. The times when he seems 'fine' are just the moments he's able to handle it better.
It is only about you in the sense that you did this to him and you are triggering him.
I struggled massively with my H's rollercoaster moods after Dday. He wouldn't talk to me at all. I didn't know what to do. All the advice I got on here was to talk to him but he wouldn't. I was desperate at times. But then I stopped making it about me.
When H triggered or was just feeling shitty I stopped asking him questions to validate myself, stopped trying to get him to soothe me. Now, I just say 'I can see you are hurting. What do you need?' 90% of the time H will just tell me to leave him alone. So I simply say 'if you need to talk about anything I'm here to listen' and then give him space. The other 10% of the time he talks about it and I listen,
validate his feelings and again, ask what he needs.
It doesn't matter how upsetting this is for you. You're a big girl, put your big girl panties on and do what you need to do for SWAT. Stop looking to him for validation, learn to soothe yourself.
My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13
Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.
One of the most hurtful things that my H said to me early in R was that because I wouldn't/couldn't always share my feelings with him "we were both liars."
The fact is that he doesn't trust you with his feelings. Nor should he. If you consistently demonstrate remorse over an extended period of time, this may change. I can't adequately express to you how hard it is to share your innermost feelings with the person you once trusted and who completely betrayed that trust. It requires an enormous amount of effort and courage to do so, and goes against our instincts. SWAT is a strong person, but being a BS is exhausting and it is hard to be do this all the time. I know even once I committed to R and knew that I had no choice but to open up if I wanted it to succeed, it was not easy.
You have received some awesome advice on how to handle situations like the one you just experienced. Read it over and over until it sinks in. I will add one thing, though. When he does manage to open up to you, realize how hard that is and acknowledge it and express gratitude for his taking that risk. It is very helpful for me to hear "Thank you for telling me that. It is hard to hear because I hate that I hurt you so badly, but I am happy I'm here to listen and appreciate that you told me." It is really the only way my H can share some of the burden of my pain.
I can hear your frustration, and it is clear to me that you are still trying to control the outcome. You keep making mistakes. The sooner you figure this out the better, but do NOT beat yourself up for not getting this perfect. I believe that even if you (general) are truly remorseful it takes learning to make a real change, and most people are not going to get it all right the first time. I would say that it took my H a full 18 months before everything sunk in. It was aggravating to me and many times I almost threw in the towel but I could see him making a huge effort and that kept me going. When and if SWAT commits to R it will be the work he sees you doing that keep his hopes up and possibly keeps him in R when everything else is telling him to run.
I get it. Iím a former cop and was on duty when I walked in on my then-fiancť having sex with OM. I got a lot of support from my colleagues and I appreciated that. But for months I used to worry that any token of friendship Ė any offer to get a cup of coffee Ė any offer to take a shift Ė any offer to share lunchÖ was based on pity rather than any form of respect.
He recently changed jobs. That in itself carries stress. He has a new group, he needs to assert his authority on them and when they look at him itís more or less unavoidable that some of them see the guy that couldnít control his wife. The guy who couldnít satisfy her. The guy who isnít man enough to keep his wife happy. The guy who wrecked OMís careerÖ
Yes Ė I know itís not correct. I know its wrong thinking BUT thatís whatís going on. This is the way some think.
And even if they arenít thinking that way then when SWAT looks at them he unavoidably sometimes thinks thatís what they are thinkingÖ
Take a minute and think how you thought about people that cheated in a marriage 2-3 years ago. If SWAT had had an affair how would you react? Before infidelity we ALL think itís a total deal breaker. Thatís another concept SWAT is trying to deal with. Heís changing a basic ground-rule. Heís trying to fathom that what he perceived previously as a basic concept of life is no more.
Give it more time. Those that care will carry on supporting SWAT and he will learn to deal with that. The othersÖ wellÖ some Hollywood star will leak a sex-tape, some local dignitary will be caught with a young boy, some other cop will streak through the parkÖ whateverÖ another rumor, another scandal will fill their small minds and remove your case from their limited attention span.
As a BS I donít agree that we BS are entitled to many years of mood swingsÖ
Itís perfectly expected for SWAT to have these moods for the next year, maybe two. But I think part of the process of reconciliation is that both parties learn to deal with the black days.
Just like you need to do a lot of work in recovery then the work SWAT has to do is not much less. Then the two of you need to put the same amount of work into the marriage.
BTW Ė Iím glad of the progress you have made. Focus on you. Be selfish on that and donít allow anything (including SWAT) to impede your progress.
eta - grammar
[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 7:06 AM, May 30th (Friday)]
I screwed up so bad. I know this shouldn't be about me and it really isn't. I've got issues as do most people. My affair will be my biggest regret in life. The things I said and did make me sick to my stomach. What I knowingly did to BH really isn't forgivable. While I selfishly want my marriage it is obvious to everyone I don't deserve it. I wanted it so bad I just couldn't let it go, I had to keep pushing and pushing him to want me and our marriage. I needed him to be here and want to be with me. You all gave me great advice and I wanted to follow it, I really did. I would try to do what was advised and it would seem to help him, which in turn got me what I wanted. But I got greedy and pushed to far and failed to tell him about one thing I had done and lied about some others. In the whirlwind of d-day and the meltdown that was my marriage I lied and lied to try to protect myself. The problem is I believed my lies and ignored some very important advice. When Swat seemed to start to forgive me I just kept the lies and some secrets to myself. What he didn't know couldn't hurt him, right? Well he did know or at least found out. I actually forgot about these things, or I guess a better way of saying it is. I intentionally didn't mention them and tried to forget about them, because he didn't know and I was never going to say or do it again, so I shouldn't have to tell him.
Swat hadn't spoken more than ten words to me since Thursday. Well I got a speech today and I deserve every gut wrenching word he said because everything was true. The gist of it was "Your a liar and even when I begged you to tell me the truth, you lied again and again. Don't try to deny it, you wrote every fucking word right there. What no tears or more lies?....Please, I've had enough...just sign the papers, please."
So I finally took everyone's advice and gave him what he wanted or actually needed. I signed them.
Nobody here is mad at you. Well, I'll stick to the first person, but I believe every WS here would concur. I care for you and can relate to the awful things you've done, the lies you've told, because I did them too. I want you to be healed, to accept yourself, because I believe we (you and I) can. I want you and SWAT to grow old together, to attend your childrens' weddings together hand-in-hand, because that's the future I want.
I read your post, sighed, looked at HT and told him "oh my god, she's me!"
I don't want to give false hope here because it truly may be over but I understand the predicament you are in. I have been exactly where you are. I get the panic, distress, and realization that you have completely fucked up your life. I was hoping that you had hit your rock bottom, but I'm afraid this might be it.
I have written a similar post. HT had begged for me to tell him everything and I thought that same old "what he doesn't know won't hurt". But we are dealing with smart men here. If there is something they want to know, they will find out. I am going to give you the same advice that was given to me when I was in a similar situation. Write a timeline. Get someone to watch the kids. Sit down and write your heart out. Tell him everything! Don't leave anything out. And don't stop until you are done. Don't put it off.
The fact of the matter is that it might help, but it might make things worse. At this point you really have nothing to lose now do you? The only purpose withholding information serves is an attempt at protecting yourself, but at this point it hasn't worked out very well has it?
If you really love SWAT and want to save what could possibly be left of this marriage, I highly recommend that you treat this as a triage situation, buckle down and do your damnedest to tell him everything. Make yourself vulnerable for once.
Don't toy with him anymore. He deserves respect. He deserves the truth. After everything you have put him through, don't you think you can give him that much?
I wish you luck.
[This message edited by WalkinOnEggshelz at 10:58 AM, June 1st (Sunday)]
There is a lot of pent-up anger in us BS.
I have this theory that we men often start on a mission of reclaiming ours. Thatís possibly what SWAT has been doing lately. Then we start wondering why, whether what was ours is really worth it. We enter a stage of anger where we basically hit out and lash at everything.
So the scope of the omissions might be interesting.
I have heard BS scream blue-murder because the WS forgot one phone-call out of 20. Or that they had dinner rather than a late lunchÖ the provocation doesnít have to be so great. Itís sometimes as if the omission is more of a spark that ignites an explosion.
In a sense itís good you have signed the papers. It alleviates some pressure.